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Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread (Page 57)
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  2010-03-02 2:04 PM in reply to: #2702728 |
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| 2010-03-02 2:06 PM in reply to: #2337428 |
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| 2010-03-02 4:00 PM in reply to: #2702786 |
 60 | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread Yeah and of course the key to a rest day is to actually rest. Too often I use my rest day to run a million errands that I cannot do on the other six days of the week. Ideally I should be kicking back, actually resting and then getting to bed earlier than usual. Need to work on that...... |
| 2010-03-02 4:57 PM in reply to: #2703132 |
Expert 1244   New York | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread Actually, I feel like doing errands on the rest days are the things that keep me sane. I think part of it has to do with the idea that I'm accomplishing *something* even though I'm not actually tri-training that day. Sitting on a couch would probably irritate me too much. Besides, I find that doing grocery shopping and cooking my meals for the week on a rest day is sort of a nice mental break from training. It's sort of therapeutic. Speaking of which, I'm trying to do some other stuff besides just train for this race (ha, crazy me). I feel like I'm becoming a one note kinda gal and that annoys me. My latest project will involve painting something in acrylics, which I've never tried before (got some books from the library and I need to find some cheap-o supplies this week). There's a big old empty space above my bed begging for something to be hung there. I figure it'll be good to obsess about something other than IMLP every few days. Don't you? Now I wonder if I could keep a brush steady while on the trainer...Hmmm... |
| 2010-03-02 6:19 PM in reply to: #2702786 |
| Master 1471 Dunedin | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread PennState - 2010-03-02 3:06 PMReally I have done best when I take 1 rest day per week. When I deviate from that I tend to run into problems... but as this sport is an obsession for many of us... it isn't always easy to do is it? I *think* that I'm finding that I need a complete day free of swim, bike or run. I feel like a$$ if I just sit on the couch. Right now, P90X yoga or P90X stretching are doing the trick on a recovery day. |
| 2010-03-02 8:42 PM in reply to: #2702514 |
Pro 4608  Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread PennState - 2010-03-02 1:51 PM OK LP peeps, I was destroyed on-call and it not only wiped out yesterday, but essentially today's training. One thing I've learned with a bit of experience is to not push it when your body says no... and today my body said NO It is better to take an extra rest day than it is to squeeze in an extra session that hurts you or gets you sick etc.Couldn't agree more. I likely wouldn't have had to hobble through IMWI with a torn PF if I'd had the same feeling last year. |
| 2010-03-02 11:09 PM in reply to: #2337428 |
| Expert 759 | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread Anyone use/or are using any of the BT plans? Im looking to use the Beginner plan seeing as this is my first IM...any suggestions if this is good or not..or should i try and use a dif one? |
| 2010-03-03 6:38 AM in reply to: #2703831 |
| Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread dharris13 - 2010-03-03 12:09 AM Anyone use/or are using any of the BT plans? Im looking to use the Beginner plan seeing as this is my first IM...any suggestions if this is good or not..or should i try and use a dif one? I checked out the BT Beginner Ironman plan and it has lots of swimming, biking and running ... so it looks good to me! But seriously, I know a few people that have used it and liked it very much, and had great success on Race Day. I'm going to give the BT intermediate Plan a shot starting next Monday. |
| 2010-03-03 10:05 AM in reply to: #2703981 |
| Expert 759 | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread Dream Chaser - 2010-03-03 7:38 AM dharris13 - 2010-03-03 12:09 AM Anyone use/or are using any of the BT plans? Im looking to use the Beginner plan seeing as this is my first IM...any suggestions if this is good or not..or should i try and use a dif one? I checked out the BT Beginner Ironman plan and it has lots of swimming, biking and running ... so it looks good to me! But seriously, I know a few people that have used it and liked it very much, and had great success on Race Day. I'm going to give the BT intermediate Plan a shot starting next Monday. haha yes those three compontents are pretty important. thanks |
| 2010-03-03 10:30 AM in reply to: #2337428 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread I wanted to revist Ironman run pace training for a moment. A very good rule of thumb is that your IM run pace per mile will likely be :30-:40 seconds per mile slower than the Ironman run /aerobic pace you do in your long training runs. Using me as an example, I ran all my long runs at a 6:50-7:00 pace as I got deep into my build. I didn't think i could hold 7 flat, but I figured I had a shot at 7:20's. I ended up with 7:41. So you need to train a pace that will allow for that degree of attrition. Everyone of you should be able to accurately estimate your IMLP run split based on the pacing of your long traing runs plus this kind of margin. |
| 2010-03-03 10:47 AM in reply to: #2704649 |
| Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread bryancd - 2010-03-03 11:30 AM I wanted to revist Ironman run pace training for a moment. A very good rule of thumb is that your IM run pace per mile will likely be :30-:40 seconds per mile slower than the Ironman run /aerobic pace you do in your long training runs. Using me as an example, I ran all my long runs at a 6:50-7:00 pace as I got deep into my build. I didn't think i could hold 7 flat, but I figured I had a shot at 7:20's. I ended up with 7:41. So you need to train a pace that will allow for that degree of attrition. Everyone of you should be able to accurately estimate your IMLP run split based on the pacing of your long traing runs plus this kind of margin. did you take RPE into consideration (I think you use RPE for training) on your long runs, or was it strictly pace based. IOW, if you felt like you were in tempo for a long training run at 7:00/mile, would you back off? Or, due to your time goal of 7:30, did you do your best, no matter how you felt (within reason, of course) to hit that 7:00 in training? |
| 2010-03-03 11:15 AM in reply to: #2704707 |
| Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread cusetri - 2010-03-03 11:47 AM bryancd - 2010-03-03 11:30 AM I wanted to revist Ironman run pace training for a moment. A very good rule of thumb is that your IM run pace per mile will likely be :30-:40 seconds per mile slower than the Ironman run /aerobic pace you do in your long training runs. Using me as an example, I ran all my long runs at a 6:50-7:00 pace as I got deep into my build. I didn't think i could hold 7 flat, but I figured I had a shot at 7:20's. I ended up with 7:41. So you need to train a pace that will allow for that degree of attrition. Everyone of you should be able to accurately estimate your IMLP run split based on the pacing of your long traing runs plus this kind of margin. did you take RPE into consideration (I think you use RPE for training) on your long runs, or was it strictly pace based. IOW, if you felt like you were in tempo for a long training run at 7:00/mile, would you back off? Or, due to your time goal of 7:30, did you do your best, no matter how you felt (within reason, of course) to hit that 7:00 in training? I like how you point out RPE, Cuse. Right now my Long Runs are an RPE 3 because I am just Building mileage and I am also doing all my Long Runs with a friend who runs slower than me, and is training for a marathon. I'm also running in 32 degree weather!! Once the weather gets warmer, and I'm out 12 to 14 weeks out from the race I plan to do Aerobic Long Runs at around an RPE 5, which is till Aerobic for me, and is around a 7:45 pace. So although I am running 8:50 pace right now, I can easily run a minute faster per mile with just a little more effort, which is why I am pegging my Marathon LP Pace around 8:30. |
| 2010-03-03 11:44 AM in reply to: #2704707 |
| Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread cusetri - 2010-03-03 9:47 AM did you take RPE into consideration (I think you use RPE for training) on your long runs, or was it strictly pace based. IOW, if you felt like you were in tempo for a long training run at 7:00/mile, would you back off? Or, due to your time goal of 7:30, did you do your best, no matter how you felt (within reason, of course) to hit that 7:00 in training? First let me correct something, my long runs were in general run at about 90% of my run LT and paced in the low 7's, I would drop below 7 only early in the season when it was cool out here. It's easy to run fast with little effort when the temps are favorable. I would not train by RPE, I would use my HR monitor and stay within that 90% of LT range as perscribed by my coach. It was only in the last few weeks, that it became soley pace based, where ALL runs were to be right around 7 flat. It felt fast but not really tempo like. Tempo pacing for me is more in the mid 6's in rgeards to RPE. No matter how you measure it, RPE, Pace, HR, whatever, the IM run is going to have a margin of fatigue built in, so you RPE 5 is going to pace like your RPE 3 in training, for example. |
| 2010-03-03 11:48 AM in reply to: #2704786 |
| Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread Dream Chaser - 2010-03-03 10:15 AM I like how you point out RPE, Cuse. Right now my Long Runs are an RPE 3 because I am just Building mileage and I am also doing all my Long Runs with a friend who runs slower than me, and is training for a marathon. I'm also running in 32 degree weather!! Once the weather gets warmer, and I'm out 12 to 14 weeks out from the race I plan to do Aerobic Long Runs at around an RPE 5, which is till Aerobic for me, and is around a 7:45 pace. So although I am running 8:50 pace right now, I can easily run a minute faster per mile with just a little more effort, which is why I am pegging my Marathon LP Pace around 8:30. Boy, Bobby, I just never train like this. Not that it's problematic, I just never not run at my limiters, be that aerobic, tempo, interval, whatever. I never go out and run 8's when I can and should be running 7. But that's just me, I recover well, I don't get injured and the consistancy of the pace work I do allows me to always know my exact ability. I have never looked at myself and said, well, I can probably go x-times faster once I really start training...because i am always REALLY training! |
| 2010-03-03 12:02 PM in reply to: #2704887 |
| Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread bryancd - 2010-03-03 12:48 PM Dream Chaser - 2010-03-03 10:15 AM I like how you point out RPE, Cuse. Right now my Long Runs are an RPE 3 because I am just Building mileage and I am also doing all my Long Runs with a friend who runs slower than me, and is training for a marathon. I'm also running in 32 degree weather!! Once the weather gets warmer, and I'm out 12 to 14 weeks out from the race I plan to do Aerobic Long Runs at around an RPE 5, which is till Aerobic for me, and is around a 7:45 pace. So although I am running 8:50 pace right now, I can easily run a minute faster per mile with just a little more effort, which is why I am pegging my Marathon LP Pace around 8:30. Boy, Bobby, I just never train like this. Not that it's problematic, I just never not run at my limiters, be that aerobic, tempo, interval, whatever. I never go out and run 8's when I can and should be running 7. But that's just me, I recover well, I don't get injured and the consistancy of the pace work I do allows me to always know my exact ability. I have never looked at myself and said, well, I can probably go x-times faster once I really start training...because i am always REALLY training! I'm always really training too. I just don't see the need to push pace on Long Runs "yet" and running is my best discipline. I ran a 14.5 miler on Feb 6th, alone, and avg'd 7:54 easily with miles 11, 12, and 13 in the low 7's (so it's not like I'm saying I can go x-times faster once I really start training, I just did it). Like I said, I'm doing my Long Runs with a friend and I'm letting him determine the pace; I'm kind of coaching him. My Focus is thoroughly stimulating my Aerobic Engine. All my alone runs mid-week are mostly in the 7's and with not much effort. So I am really training. I remember 2 years ago I ran a 13-mile Long Run around 9:00+ pace and then a week later ran a 1:31 half marathon. I'm just crazy like that After LP I plan to have my LT tested in a lab and I'm going to follow the Pfitz 18/55 plan and see what I'm capable of. Going to try and BQ this fall. I'm sure if I follow a structured running plan I could probably be running closer to your numbers. |
| 2010-03-03 12:06 PM in reply to: #2704786 |
| Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread Dream Chaser - 2010-03-03 12:15 PM cusetri - 2010-03-03 11:47 AM bryancd - 2010-03-03 11:30 AM I wanted to revist Ironman run pace training for a moment. A very good rule of thumb is that your IM run pace per mile will likely be :30-:40 seconds per mile slower than the Ironman run /aerobic pace you do in your long training runs. Using me as an example, I ran all my long runs at a 6:50-7:00 pace as I got deep into my build. I didn't think i could hold 7 flat, but I figured I had a shot at 7:20's. I ended up with 7:41. So you need to train a pace that will allow for that degree of attrition. Everyone of you should be able to accurately estimate your IMLP run split based on the pacing of your long traing runs plus this kind of margin. did you take RPE into consideration (I think you use RPE for training) on your long runs, or was it strictly pace based. IOW, if you felt like you were in tempo for a long training run at 7:00/mile, would you back off? Or, due to your time goal of 7:30, did you do your best, no matter how you felt (within reason, of course) to hit that 7:00 in training? I like how you point out RPE, Cuse. Right now my Long Runs are an RPE 3 because I am just Building mileage and I am also doing all my Long Runs with a friend who runs slower than me, and is training for a marathon. I'm also running in 32 degree weather!! Once the weather gets warmer, and I'm out 12 to 14 weeks out from the race I plan to do Aerobic Long Runs at around an RPE 5, which is till Aerobic for me, and is around a 7:45 pace. So although I am running 8:50 pace right now, I can easily run a minute faster per mile with just a little more effort, which is why I am pegging my Marathon LP Pace around 8:30. this is percisely why I refuse to train with other people. my training is non-negotiable....I refuse to change the plan of the day. If I do run/bike with someone, they either go at my race, or one of us is getting dropped. also, I actually agree with your approach on base milage, but I think 8:50 is way way too slow for you...and that's a compliment. And, now is not the time for base milage....that was nov/dec/jan. we bascially have 18 weeks left if you taper 2 weeks out. if you rest/go easy every 3 weeks, you have 15 weekends for long runs. You also have other races thrown in there, so another 2-3 weekend long run days gone. so, you are looking at 12-13 opportunitites for long runs starting today, if everything goes perfect. I'm not sure what you are waiting for....LETS GO DC! |
| 2010-03-03 12:08 PM in reply to: #2337428 |
| Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread You see, I don't consider it "pushing the pace" when i do my aerobic runs, I simply do them at the same HR effort day in and day out regardless of time of year. I put a HR cap of 152 for all "aerobic" runs and just sit there. Thats about 10 bpm's below my run LT. I do the same for the bike, I ride 100% of my "aerobic" rides between 138-148 and my bike LT is around 157. So I live in what for many would be a an elevated zone of training in relation to LT. When I said REALLY training, I wasn't implying you weren't apologies if it came across that way. What I mean is I don't do a periodization of an effort anywhere below my IM planned efforts on the run and on the bike in general. I don't believe that low Zone training has any benefit for me as an athlete and froma time management standpoint. |
| 2010-03-03 12:19 PM in reply to: #2704959 |
| Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread cusetri - 2010-03-03 1:06 PM Dream Chaser - 2010-03-03 12:15 PM cusetri - 2010-03-03 11:47 AM bryancd - 2010-03-03 11:30 AM I wanted to revist Ironman run pace training for a moment. A very good rule of thumb is that your IM run pace per mile will likely be :30-:40 seconds per mile slower than the Ironman run /aerobic pace you do in your long training runs. Using me as an example, I ran all my long runs at a 6:50-7:00 pace as I got deep into my build. I didn't think i could hold 7 flat, but I figured I had a shot at 7:20's. I ended up with 7:41. So you need to train a pace that will allow for that degree of attrition. Everyone of you should be able to accurately estimate your IMLP run split based on the pacing of your long traing runs plus this kind of margin. did you take RPE into consideration (I think you use RPE for training) on your long runs, or was it strictly pace based. IOW, if you felt like you were in tempo for a long training run at 7:00/mile, would you back off? Or, due to your time goal of 7:30, did you do your best, no matter how you felt (within reason, of course) to hit that 7:00 in training? I like how you point out RPE, Cuse. Right now my Long Runs are an RPE 3 because I am just Building mileage and I am also doing all my Long Runs with a friend who runs slower than me, and is training for a marathon. I'm also running in 32 degree weather!! Once the weather gets warmer, and I'm out 12 to 14 weeks out from the race I plan to do Aerobic Long Runs at around an RPE 5, which is till Aerobic for me, and is around a 7:45 pace. So although I am running 8:50 pace right now, I can easily run a minute faster per mile with just a little more effort, which is why I am pegging my Marathon LP Pace around 8:30. this is percisely why I refuse to train with other people. my training is non-negotiable....I refuse to change the plan of the day. If I do run/bike with someone, they either go at my race, or one of us is getting dropped. also, I actually agree with your approach on base milage, but I think 8:50 is way way too slow for you...and that's a compliment. And, now is not the time for base milage....that was nov/dec/jan. we bascially have 18 weeks left if you taper 2 weeks out. if you rest/go easy every 3 weeks, you have 15 weekends for long runs. You also have other races thrown in there, so another 2-3 weekend long run days gone. so, you are looking at 12-13 opportunitites for long runs starting today, if everything goes perfect. I'm not sure what you are waiting for....LETS GO DC! I'm still doing BASE. My structured training doesn't start till Monday. And I'm not going for an AG win for my first Ironman, so helping a friend is more important to me. Don't worry, Cuse, I'll still run you down. 12-13 opportunities for Long Runs does put it in perspective though. |
| 2010-03-03 12:24 PM in reply to: #2705005 |
| Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
I'm still doing BASE. My structured training doesn't start till Monday. And I'm not going for an AG win for my first Ironman, so helping a friend is more important to me. Don't worry, Cuse, I'll still run you down. 12-13 opportunities for Long Runs does put it in perspective though. thats the spirit!! just encourage me as you pass......  |
| 2010-03-03 12:28 PM in reply to: #2704969 |
| Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread bryancd - 2010-03-03 1:08 PM You see, I don't consider it "pushing the pace" when i do my aerobic runs, I simply do them at the same HR effort day in and day out regardless of time of year. I put a HR cap of 152 for all "aerobic" runs and just sit there. Thats about 10 bpm's below my run LT. I do the same for the bike, I ride 100% of my "aerobic" rides between 138-148 and my bike LT is around 157. So I live in what for many would be a an elevated zone of training in relation to LT. When I said REALLY training, I wasn't implying you weren't apologies if it came across that way. What I mean is I don't do a periodization of an effort anywhere below my IM planned efforts on the run and on the bike in general. I don't believe that low Zone training has any benefit for me as an athlete and froma time management standpoint. I think and have read Low Zone Training (for the run specifically) helps you more easily increase Load which = Speed. The run slow to run fast concept. Doesn't Low Zone training lower your Aerobic Heart Rate? Perhaps too low of a Zone doesn't do too much? To be honest, despite my obsession with the sport, I don't really pay attention to the scientific data details. Perhaps I should. Perhaps I should be running my long Runs faster. I like learning things the hard way I guess. |
| 2010-03-03 12:32 PM in reply to: #2705026 |
| Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread cusetri - 2010-03-03 1:24 PM
I'm still doing BASE. My structured training doesn't start till Monday. And I'm not going for an AG win for my first Ironman, so helping a friend is more important to me. Don't worry, Cuse, I'll still run you down.  12-13 opportunities for Long Runs does put it in perspective though.
So if Mrs. Cuse wants to do a Long Run with you, you're blowing her off?? Answer carefully Edited by Dream Chaser 2010-03-03 12:33 PM |
| 2010-03-03 12:33 PM in reply to: #2337428 |
| Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread Ahh, BASE. That's part of the issue, how does one define "BASE". It's a terrible concept with no correct answer excpet for what we individually decide. For me, BASE training is AEROBIC training as defined by my etsbalished, faithful 138-148 (152) HR I have been working for 5 years now. I don't believ in the classic, long and slow stuff. I never train Zone 1 or low to mid Zone 2. I never train at an RPE of say 1-5 on a scale of 10 unless it specific to a recovery effort. |
| 2010-03-03 12:40 PM in reply to: #2705058 |
| Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread Dream Chaser - 2010-03-03 1:32 PM cusetri - 2010-03-03 1:24 PM
I'm still doing BASE. My structured training doesn't start till Monday. And I'm not going for an AG win for my first Ironman, so helping a friend is more important to me. Don't worry, Cuse, I'll still run you down. 12-13 opportunities for Long Runs does put it in perspective though.
So if Mrs. Cuse wants to do a Long Run with you, you're blowing her off?? Answer carefully she blows me off....she runs with a couple of her girlfriends.... when we do run toghter, I loop back every 5 minutes...though I think this happened once in 3 years. we have 3 kids....so one plays, the other runs... |
| 2010-03-03 12:49 PM in reply to: #2705063 |
| Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread bryancd - 2010-03-03 1:33 PM Ahh, BASE. That's part of the issue, how does one define "BASE". It's a terrible concept with no correct answer excpet for what we individually decide. For me, BASE training is AEROBIC training as defined by my etsbalished, faithful 138-148 (152) HR I have been working for 5 years now. I don't believ in the classic, long and slow stuff. I never train Zone 1 or low to mid Zone 2. I never train at an RPE of say 1-5 on a scale of 10 unless it specific to a recovery effort. Has your Aerobic running pace dropped in the past 5 years? Meaning: 138 AVG HR, for you, today yields faster per mile times than three years ago. |
| 2010-03-03 1:01 PM in reply to: #2705120 |
| Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread |
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