Got Your Mojo WORKIN'! group - CLOSED (Page 68)

Alex,

I breath every 3 strokes.  I know there has been a lot of discussions on bilateral and same side breathing so I won't go back to that but are you needing to take such a deep breath because you are holding your breath for so long?  6 strokes, I feel, is a long time to go without air.  It's like holding your breath while running.  I exhale while my face is in the water blowing bubbles.  When I turn my head, I am ready for air and get a very good breath in a short period of time.  You don't want to be exhaling as your head turns out of the water.  I am comfortable breathing every 3 strokes but I have friends that are great swimmings trying to convince me to switch to 2 strokes but I am comfortable bilaterally breathing and at this point, I am going to stick with it.  Also, I have a very fast turnover rate and would need to slow that down before switching to a breath every 2 strokes.  I am currently doing catch up drills to lengthen my stroke. 

Had a beautiful day here on Saturday and was able to get out for a short ride in the afternoon low 60's a little wind not to bad, So I thought I'd try this new hill route. I was rewarded with the steepest I think I've ever been on my rode bike and the fastest speed to date on the down hill.

It was a short 8.45 mi trip with about 500' climb but there is one short section at the top of the hill of 20% climb (ouch) maybe 200 yds. As soon as you get to the top (well where I turned onto another rode) its downhill with some sweeping curves.  Now THAT'S FUN!!! Just over 40mph I could have gotten a speeding ticket 35mph road 25mph corners. also new slowest speed about 2mph on that steep section but it was worth it.

The pros make it look so easy. I hope everybody had a great weekend.

Thanks, I think where I am falling apart in the breathing is my breathing is very slow.  I am not holding my breath at all, I exhale while my face is in the water.  Is it possible that I should be speeding up my breathing?  Blowing out harder/faster?  I guess that I am just thinking that my breathing rhythm should be similar to what it is when not swimming.  
Alex 

SHANNEN -

Was that 5k a run on your own, or with assorted others -- that is, a race? Some of your wording suggests the later; snuck that one past us, didn't you?

I think I agree with your wise spousal unit about clipless pedals. Remember, there is some terminological confusion here, so what I refer to as "clipless" is also called "clip-in" --- as opposed to a standard cage-type pedal with a toe-clip and a strap. Clipless/clip-in one require a cycling shoe with a cleat on the sole that snaps into a spring-loaded clip.

The advantage to these is generation of power, pure and simple; for this, they cannot be beat. The disadvantage (short-term only! ) is that they take away a rider's comfort zone somewhat, seeing as how you're kind of locked-in to your pedal. Every rider has a story of pulling up to a stop.....and forgetting they are clipped-in.....and tumbling over. I have done this several times, and most recently (after a few gazillion hours to be fully accustomed) at the West Point Triathlon when I was so flustered and agiatated by a flat that when I pulled to the shoulder to fix it.....I tumbled over. ("Rookie"!!, the callous voices in my head hooted derisively.)

At first it is problematic, but within a few rides you will master the art of the little side-flick of your ankle to sidconnect foot from pedal. It really does become second-nature before too long.

Do you have any pretty paces with wide shoulders that aren't all that far from where you live, that you maybe tuck the bike in your car and drive to? FWIW, most of my go-to riding areas require a drive there, and that is just soemthing I do. Granted, I can get in a decent ride just by heading off from home, out here in the country, but my nicest or most challenging rides are ones that I need to drive to get to. I'm just thinking that if you can find a great spot where you feel perfectly safe, you might realize that cycling can be awfully nice.

Finally, we all have an area that we don't like working on as much as the others, and to some extent you should accept that with cycling. That is, continue the focus on running and swimming, as they are the areas that you enjoy the most, are the most athletically rewarding for you, and overall keep you coming back for more. As you do this, though, just keep working to "make nice" with the bike. And hopefully the fitting, combined with maybe new pedals, will go a long way towards building your interest in cycling. (At least that's part of the plan!)

ALEX -

I agree with what John said about your breathing. A unilateral breather will breath every other stroke to maximize the amount of oxygen they can grab. A bilateral breather withe the same goal will breathe every third stroke. And for the unilateral swimmer who wants to "cheat" a bit and create less dag by breating less, they will breathe every fourth stroke.

As a unilateral breather (right side) I am usually every other stroke for my breath, but constantly work at every fourth stroke. I am noot overly adept at any aspevt of swimming except maybe my breathing........and I cannot sustain anything less frequent than breathing evcery fourth stroke for much more than half a minute, I would guess.

What you're doing is swimming hypoxically, which some people consider to be anything more than three. It is useful to practice hypoxic breathing drills at times, but very, very few people can swim hypoxically for too long --especially in race situations where heart rate gets elevated some anyhow.

One of the keys to training hypoxically is learning to relax. Of course, that's a worthy goal in all aspects of swimming, but it definitely pays off when trying to breathe every four, five, six, or seven strokes. The sidebar to relaxing is to keep it purely a drill -- not speed emphasis at all!

That said, you should be looking at breathing as frequently as you can, and that should be every second (unilateral) or third (bilateral) stroke, and if you are unilateral and absolutely must breathe less frequently, every fourth stroke. As John said, the key to swim-breathing is exhaling FULLY, so that the only thing your mouth and lungs are doing when you turn your face out of the water is inhaling. Many people fail to exhale fully, so in that 1.73 seconds their face is out of the water, part of that preciously brief time is devoted to finishing the exhale. The other way that people compensate for failing to exhale fully is turning thier head way too much in an effort to extend the amount of time they have to do their final exhale and the required inhale. This maybe works for pure breathing, but it disrupts the stroke mechanics and upsets your optimal body-line in the water.

When next you swim, EXPLODE hat air out of your lungs -- even make noise (as it's underwater, no one will hear you!) if that helps. See the powerful and complete exhale in the form of an explosion of bubbles in front of you; just be as forceful as you can.

I may have mentioned this before, but go to the shallow end of the pool and stand in waist-deep water. Bend forward with your upper body in the swim position, face loking straight at the bottom. Then exhale -- hard and forceful! When you feel you are out of air, turn your head, grab a breath, and repeat the forceful exhale. Do this for a minute, maybe two or three times during a swim session. Try to keep you face in the water for as long as it would be if your were actually swimming and breathing every second (unilat) or third (bilat) strokes.

Seeing as how you arr every sixth stroke now, it might work best fro you if you rduced this gradually -- go to a four-stroke pattern first. A small advantage for you with this is that it would give you longer to complete the exhale. For peole who breathe every other stroke, they have to be very quick and efficient with their exhale -- no time for holding one's breath!

Let me know how this goes for you, okay?

Gonna post now, and then return.

ALEX again -

As for the bike fitting -- yes, do it. Five years is a long time, and especially so if you have lost a lot of weight during that time. If nothing else, you are likely now capable of more "reach", and that would be addressed by a good bike fitting!

PLEASE, though, try to find a post I made to either just George or to the whole group, about 5-7 days ago. I think it was to the whole group, and I seem to remember having the title written in all caps, and the title had "BIKE FITTING somewhere in it. I think. (I would look myself, but dial-up is pokey for this, and presently out dial-up is about as fast as the drifting of the continents.

In this post I addressed the advantages to a rudimentary fiiting, an additional fitting (say about $75-$100), and a professional fitting (>$250). I won't go over all this right now, in the hopes that you (or I) can find that post.

I will say, though, that people can choose a more serious fitting either to improve their comfort or to improve their performance, and that many, many people can be perfectly content with a fitting that works for them, period. Most really serious cyclists/triathletes will opt for a professional fitting once they decide they want to be considerably more competitive. Short of that, though, I fitting "makeover" can be done by most good bike shops, and as I said above, that can be had for under $100. In it you will likely have your saddle moved around (and maybe even buy a new saddle), and your bars might be raised or lowered, all with the goal of improving your power output and pedaling efficiency without sacrificing (too much) comfort.

So, have a look for that post, and when I get time and (if? when?) the computer seems less balky, I will poke around for it myself.

HEY! HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY, ALL!


Lynn and I are off to Ottawa for a movie and then dinner. When we return, she will probably commandeer the computer for some more intensive/extensive Australia planning, so I might not be back until tomorrow.

And if chocolate is part of anyone's day today, enjoy them -- I just read that the world is facing a serious chocolate shortage. Oh, nooooooooooooooo!

Just an aside regarding clipless pedals. I have had a different experience than most and never fell or had any trouble transitioning to them. In fact I only fell in toe clips! I tried to use them as designed and kept the strap tight, would reach down and release the qr on the strap before needing it etc. When I went clipless I went with SPD's mtb pedals which were fairly new at the time, they were very intuitive and easy to learn. The double sided feature of MTB pedals makes learning and using them easy. I eventually went on to road SPD's.  Now I ride speedplays and have the same feeling about them.
 Historically the old toe clip pedals and shoes had a cleat, imagine a device that holds your shoe in place from pulling back and out and the strap holding it down. This required you manually release the strap, or keep one of them loose, to put your foot down. Clipless pedals eliminated all the contortions required, the rider simply twists the foot and is released.
 I'm not sure my point except that I believe sometimes the issue with clipless is largely mental. The perception that you are mechanically linked to the bicycle vs simply a plastic or metal cage/strap seems to carry more gravitas. Ironically the straps and cages are more restrictive IMO. If you believe release is complicated or difficult it will be.
 I used to get asked by non-cyclists "what if you crash". I usually say something clever like "then it will hurt". But I have crashed and have never been "trapped by my pedals" Not that it would matter since it isn't a motorcycle. I was hit by a car, on purpose, and knocked out of my shoes, they were both dangling from the pedals after the bike landed When I left the hopsital and went to put my street shoes on I discovered the backs of my heals were bruised from hitting the ground.

STEVE-
I did read your post and that is what kind of led me to thinking about a bike fitting as well as thinking about clipon aero bars.  I've lost about 110lbs since buying my bike (though over 5 years have went up and down a lot, I think when I bought my bike I was about 75lbs heavier than I am now) my LBS here is great and I was planning to go for a fit late March or early April.  

About the swimming... I will try a more forceful exhale.  I think that is my problem.  I am just breathing out "normally" which over 4-5 strokes I am not holding my breath but I don't feel like I can inhale enough oxygen when I do breath.  I'll practice and let you all know..
Thanks!
Alex 

Good morning everyone.  Well I hope everyone had a great weekend.. My daughter had her cheer competition this past weekend and they were the National Champions (1st Place) yeahhh. We are heading to Atlanta this weekend for another cheer competition which is the biggest in the US..  Me and my son started on his training last night.  It was funny because I did not now what he could do so we started last night with a walk/run for a total of 1 mile.  We finished the mile in 12:58min, not bad for a kid that has very small legs.  When we were doing our warm down he told me that at school that day he ran 11 laps which is almost 2 miles (6 laps is a mile).  He said he ran and walked but mostly ran.  We are going to keep at the 1 mile this week and next and then slowly move up.. Well I just had to get on and talk about my kids.. Boy kids are great and it's amazing what they can do.  I will video tape the competiton this weekend and post it somewhere so you can watch it if you want.  Have a great day.

I LOVE cheerleaders, GEORGE and would love to view the video. I cheered 10 years from middle school to college and just recently coached at the college level for 5 years. I've got cheerleading in my blood! Congrats to your daughter's team for getting 1st place and good job to your son for his desire to run with you. It's the best thing for a parent to brag on their kids. BTW I've got 2 of the best, too!

I know this was a while ago but thanks CATHY for posting the picture of Peyton and your other granddaughter. Beautiful children! I'm so glad Peyton is doing well.

I haven't read back posts for what I've been missing, but I hope your 20 mile run, JOHANNA went well and you're recovering nicely. Have a wonderful trip.

I'll be sneaking in and out here. Tax season is in full swing so I have to manage my time well.

Happy Tuesday everyone!

Steve - yes, the marathon is close to home - Fox Cities http://foxcitiesmarathon.org/
It's a great race with beautiful scenery, great public support and a nice park along a lake to finish it up.
(I believe it's also a BQ race...ahhh..maybe someday )
Anyhow..I think you may be on to something.
And Johanne too..
I may steer clear of the full this year to do justice with my nemesis...the Oly that kicked my butt.
Besides, if I do the half instead, I just may best my last year's time

Hey Gang!
Just checking in....busy week last week and spent Valentines day last night at the pool watching Peyton finish her Level 1 swim class. Then we headed out for dinner (Thai) and she pretty much ate my meal for me! Great night...she even broke into a little Justin Bieber (much to my dismay) which sent the couple next to us laughing hysterically!

Quick question for Steve or anybody else who wants to chime in....my company is putting together a "Dream Team" of runners (still not sure how I got on the list) to particpate in a 1/2 Mary for charity in Williamsburg, VA on 5/22. Now below is my schedule this year...what do you guys think? Is this feasible or am I just going to completely burn myself out? The good thing is the wife and I are going to NYC May 25-30 for our 10yr. anniversary so this will be a good time to "recover" from the run and do some light exercise. then I can pick the training back up for one week before I taper down for my Sprint tri on 6/11/11. I just wanted to get some feedback before I committed to anything. I already have the OK from my wife....so I am 99.9% of the way there (that is the most important part, right?)

As far as incorporating 1/2 Mary training into my tri-training....I run 3 days a week (long run on the weekend). Should I just up my mileage for the long run and continue with everything else as-is? (that is if this isn't a crazy idea).

2011 Races:
3/27/11 - Cool Breeze Triathlon (Sprint), Huntersville, NC
4/2/11 - Sarcoma Stomp (5K), Charlotte, NC
5/1/11 - Huntersville Triathlon (Sprint), Huntersville, NC
6/11/11 - Tri-Latta Triathlon (Sprint), Charlotte, NC
7/23/11 - YMCA Camp Thunderbird Triathlon (Sprint), Charlotte, NC
8/27/11 - Warrior Dash, Huntersville, NC
10/1/11 - Pinehurst Triathlon (Oly), Pinehurst, NC

David:
I'm sure Steve will reply with something more specific but I think you can definitely do that half in May. I would add maybe a fourth run per week, easy pace, but around an hour or more and start increasing your long runs in small increments. You have allot of time to get it there. Once you start flirting with the ten mile range or so the half distance is obtainable. I did my first half on January 1 after taking nearly 6 weeks off injured and was still in pain. I did the thing in run/walk intervals and finished in 3 hours. Doing my next this Saturday, a trail run hoping for <3. Build slow and consistent, go into it pain free and you will do well.

Jeff,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. It's been awhile since I've done a 1/2 Mary, but this looks like a fun race that I can turn into a Race-cation with the family!
David

DAVID -

I agree with what Jeff says! You have three weeks until the June 11 sprint, and as long as you emerge from the H-M with no injuries, that'll give you a few days for general recovery (swimming definitely allowed, easy biking also okay), and then kick it up in prep for Tri-Latta. It helps that you have done a H-M before, too.

The only possible problem is deciding how to treat Huntersville. That will come at a peak time in your H-M training, so the final week of training for Huntersville might be a bit messy. I guess you also have to decide what intensity you wnat to do Huntersville at. Probably not full-bore, anyhow!

Dream Team, eh? Is that akin to Bosh/James/Wade, or more like Halliday/Oswalt/Hamels?Lee?

DAVID again -

I'm hurt -- you place your wife's input at 99.9%, leaving the horde here to squabble over the final 0.1% Harumph.

ALEX -

I devoted a fair bit of my swim today to issues that concern you, namely breathing. HOWEVER, I won't get into a post about it until tomorrow. Sorry?

It's not that I have anything conclusive to say, just a few thoughts for you based on lots of hypoxic swimming today. Stay tuned!










Edited by stevebradley 2011-02-15 9:34 PM

GEORGE, JEFF, BRENDA, SARAH -

I am about to be forcibly evicted from the computer, as Lynn needs to continue with her all-consumptive Australia planning. Humbug!

See you tomorrow!

DAVID -
I agree with what Jeff says! You have three weeks until the June 11 sprint, and as long as you emerge from the H-M with no injuries, that'll give you a few days for general recovery (swimming definitely allowed, easy biking also okay), and then kick it up in prep for Tri-Latta. It helps that you have done a H-M before, too.
The only possible problem is deciding how to treat Huntersville. That will come at a peak time in your H-M training, so the final week of training for Huntersville might be a bit messy. I guess you also have to decide what intensity you wnat to do Huntersville at. Probably not full-bore, anyhow!
Dream Team, eh? Is that akin to Bosh/James/Wade, or more like Halliday/Oswalt/Hamels?Lee?

Yeah...I'm not sure how they came up with the names on the list for the dream team....probably picked them out of a hat! Unfortunately there was no ESPN special on "The Decision" so I'm not sure how it was made!

I'm not too concerned with Huntersville...it was just a warm up race for Tri-Latta so I'll feel my way through the training during that week. I guess the key here is to come ouf of the H-M uninjured...which means I need to start focusing more on my stretching routine to make sure the ITB doesn't flare up! Well....sounds like I am in. I'm just waiting on the details and will sign up then...thanks for the advice!

Oh....btw...the .01% is still important...but always remember...."If momma ain't happy....nobody's happy!"
David

I stretch before runs and sometimes after, especially if I happen to be hurting. Before the run I focus on hamstrings a couple of variations, a piriformis stretch and several reps of an IT band stretch. I also like to stretch the calves/hamstrings too- some leg lifts or whatever they are called on a curb or even the bumper of my truck. And yes, it takes me about 3/4 mile to even believe I might finish the run so I have added some light jogging and short "run ups" before races to try to have that phase behind me when the gun  goes off. Basically, when possible have a nice little sweat going at the start. This is hard to time when there is too much standing around waiting to start at some races.
 The morning of, before I leave the house I hit the foam roller some and often after too.
 Incidentally: there is almost no difference between my "light jog" and my actual run these days

Edited by Av8rTx 2011-02-16 4:50 PM

GEORGE -

I'll do second things first -- the stretching post, and then later back to the one from a few days ago.

Ultimately here, I will defer stretching thoughts to others, which would be those who actually stretch. I have gone through phases where I tried to stretch regularly, but not only didn't it seem to make me even marginally more flexible, but often I would overdo it and tweal something. So, quite literally, it's been about five or six YEARS since I last engaged in any kind of systematic stretching program.

When a problem arises (usually hints of ITB), I will half-heartedly stretch along my hips, and that is about it. I am not at all proud about this, as I do believe that stretching is useful, maybe even helpful. Were I to do regular full-scale stretching, I would keep t all quite gentle and "static" -- nothing dynamic or forceful at all.

I hope others can help you more than what I was just able to offer; I am simply way out of the loop on this stuff. I can tell you that the jury is out on stretching before activity, with one side saying that those cold muscles need to be warmed up, while the other camp insists that the LAST thing cold muscles need is to be flexed and - possibly - strained. This same side will hold that the best way to loosen up cold muscles is to ease into the workout slowly and gradually; with running, this might mean the first 10 minutes at a very easy and relaxed pace, focusing on a short and compact stride.

Thinking about it, I definitely come down on the side of the If-You-Must-Stretch-Do-It-Post-Workout camp. That's not to say that I do it that way, because as I said above, I seldom stretch at all. My only post-run stretches will be the above for ITB, or calf stretches if my calves seem tight after a run, and in either case it is (blessedly) few and far between!

I usually stretch in this order no matter what sport I am doing:
 excersize (part I feel the stretch in)
1. arm across the chest (outside of shoulder)
2. arm out to the side and hand on a wall (inside of shoulder and top of bicep)
3. Arm up bend at elbow place hand on back, pull on elbow towards back side (tricep)
4. Arm up bend at elbow place hand on back, pull on elbow towards other shoulder (lats and back)
5. lean forward and tough toes (hammys)
6. kick up one leg and grab ankle while leg is behind you, both legs (quads)
7. calf stretches (calfs)
8. spread legs, lean to one side use same hand and slide it down your leg, both legs (hips and back)
9. hip flexors (hip flexors)
10.cross legs and touch toes, for both legs (legs)
11. cross legs, lean to the oppsite of your body as the REAR leg, do near a wall as you might fall over, I have (hips, great for ITB)


I then start out my training at a very slow speed until I am warm and feel good. If I am not warm and feeling good after 20 min I call it a day and head home, I figure its my body telling me I need rest.

Edited by LycraCladChamp 2011-02-16 5:22 PM

GEORGE again -

Belated congrats to your kids -- for your daughter's team doing so incredibly well, for your son being a trooper -- as well as a companion and source of inspiration for his old man (very likely, though, he would say that you're HIS inspiration!).