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2011-02-16 5:47 PM
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ALEX -

Okay! Some thoughts and insights into breathing!

I have spent parts of both yesterday's and today's swim doing hypoxic breathing, which has been mostly every six strokes (a la you), and sometimes every eight strokes.. And just so that we're on the same mental abacus here, I count a stroke as every time either hand enters the water. So, if I do 22 strokes for a single length of the 25m pool, that means each hand enters the water 11 times.

As a right-side breather, my normal pattern is breathing every other stroke. That means that right after every time my left hand enters the water, I am turning to breathe -- as the left arm is extending, I am breathing. And every time my right arm enters the water, my face is submerged and I am rotating to the left -- but not breathing. Were I to breathe then, too, it would be breathing every stroke, and I'd quivkly resemble a bobble-head doll!

As I said to you the other day, one of the few truly functional tools in my swimming toolbox is breathing, which I find easy to do and am fairly inefficient at. That is, I can do it without disrupting my body line very much at all -- just as long as it's to my right. (When breathing bilaterally, things are not near as smooth and efficient -- which si why I only do it doing workouts and not in races.) So, even though I breathe mostly okay when swimming.......

Breathing every sixth stroke is very hard on me. If my turnover is fairly high, which is 24 strokes per 25m, I can make it from one end to the other with four breaths. I am fine at this point, but about 3/4 of the way back I am beginning to become uncomfortable short of oxygen; by the time I hit the wall on thr return, I'm gassed.

So, when swimming hard I can make it about 42m before I start to get hypoxic. Were I to turn immediately at the wall and continue, I would very soon have to change my breathing to every 4th or every 2nd stroke. And by very soon, I mean by halfway through that third 25m, at the most.

If I relax a bit and swim more leisurely, using about 21 strokes for each 25m and breathing every sixth stroke, I am in better shape by the 50m mark. I could probably continue that way --breathing every 6th -- for another 25m, and then I might have to breathe more regularly, such as every 4th or 2nd.

The trade-off for me comes when I look at speed for those 50m. When my arm turnover is fast and I'm breathing every 6th, I do the 50m in 47 or 48 seconds. When my turnover is more relaxed, I am done with the 50m in 50/51 seconds. Granted, I would love to be able to work that hard AND breathe that infrequently --- but my lungs cannot sustain it. Heck, even when I relax, I'm not good for more than 75m breathing every sixth stroke!

ANYHOW.....all those numbers aside.....I just wanted to see for myself how difficult it might be for you to swim happily breathing so infrequently. And, as I suspected, I can only imagine how cacaphonously your lungs are hollering at you by the time you've done a length of the pool!

So, again, if you are a one-sided breather, look to breathe very 2nd or 4th stroke; if you breathe to both sides, do it every third stroke. The simple math for a unilateral breather tells you that every other stroke allows for twice as many breaths compared with breathing every fourth stroke, so that should help your breathing problems enormously. And if you can master the fine art of the Full Exhale, you'll be good to go great distances in no time flat.

Glub, glub!




2011-02-16 5:58 PM
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SARAH -

Fox Cities Marathon! Appleton! The Appleton Foxes minor-league baseball team!

Nice neck of the woods you come from!

You've got two good reasons for not doing the full, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Being that close to you counts for something, and it's just too bad that the Sept 18 date isn't actually Oct 18. Bah.

I've never been good at gracefully accepting the notion of "so many races, so little time", which if my acceptance were complete would mean that I could happily make my priorities crystal clear, and let certain races go and just move on. But if you're like me, Fox Cities Marathon is gnawing at you, and turning away from it this year is not so easy. You might get somewhere by just figuring that another year will make you that much better, and if you focus on the revenge oly this year and set your sights on FCM for '12, your chances of having a strong marathon will be that much greater.

How's that for peerless rationalization?


2011-02-16 6:01 PM
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DAVID -

Awww. No "The Decision"?? Jeezum! I wanted to be able to say "I knew him when"!






2011-02-16 6:04 PM
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BRENDA -

You know, it's been clinically proven that working on taxes gets progressively less arduous with more frequent breaks. Some positive effects are noted if the breaks occur every 75-90 minutes, but the real benefits come when the breaks are at least every 45 minutes. And, b'gosh, that would allow you LOTS of time to relax with the mojoistas here.

No sense arguing with science, so just spend more time here and less time with taxes. Trust me!


2011-02-16 6:05 PM
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BRENDA again -

34th became 35th, and yesterday 35th became 36th. Ack! I'm in limited free-fall, it seems!





2011-02-17 8:21 AM
in reply to: #3256772

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Subject: RE: Got Your Mojo WORKIN'! group - CLOSED
So excited supposed to be in the upper 40s maybe even 50s today can't wait to get out for a run!!
Steve
I have the "strap-in" pedals right now and I have fallen already with these so I am positive it will happen if I get the clip-less pedals!!! We have the Rails to Trails bike trail that goes through our town which is really nice and seems to be getting longer every year! Last year I would take the girls for rides with the pull behind cart since it's a pretty safe ride, but this year I'm afraid my oldest might be too big to do that!!
Yes my 5k was a race, I didn't do as good as I thought... I felt better this race then last and this was much flatter but I was @ a minute slower?! Could be lack of getting "out" to run!!

Hope everyone is getting to enjoy a break in the bad weather!!!
Shannen


2011-02-17 12:02 PM
in reply to: #3359512

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shannen - 2011-02-17 6:21 AM So excited supposed to be in the upper 40s maybe even 50s today can't wait to get out for a run!! Steve I have the "strap-in" pedals right now and I have fallen already with these so I am positive it will happen if I get the clip-less pedals!!! We have the Rails to Trails bike trail that goes through our town which is really nice and seems to be getting longer every year! Last year I would take the girls for rides with the pull behind cart since it's a pretty safe ride, but this year I'm afraid my oldest might be too big to do that!! Yes my 5k was a race, I didn't do as good as I thought... I felt better this race then last and this was much flatter but I was @ a minute slower?! Could be lack of getting "out" to run!! Hope everyone is getting to enjoy a break in the bad weather!!! Shannen


Don't feel too bad about falling while using the toe cages.  I have been riding "clip-less" for the past 6 years.  Recently I bought a fixed gear bike and it came with toe cages.  I rode up the street on it to show a group of buddies.  I went to "twist" my foot out of the pedal and just threw myself down onto the ground. Kind of funny and sad at the same time. We all have riding together for the past 6 years so you can imagine the nick names I have gotten lately.

My take on the pedal change:
You just have to think about what you need to do before you come to a slow speed.  While on group rides see when others un-clip and you will be surprised how many people un-clip about 400-800 yds before the red light.
2011-02-17 2:42 PM
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just got a nice little 2.5 mile run in.  I had to get out of the house and enjoy this rad weather.
2011-02-17 2:55 PM
in reply to: #3358881

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stevebradley - 2011-02-16 6:47 PM ALEX - Okay! Some thoughts and insights into breathing! I have spent parts of both yesterday's and today's swim doing hypoxic breathing, which has been mostly every six strokes (a la you), and sometimes every eight strokes.. And just so that we're on the same mental abacus here, I count a stroke as every time either hand enters the water. So, if I do 22 strokes for a single length of the 25m pool, that means each hand enters the water 11 times. As a right-side breather, my normal pattern is breathing every other stroke. That means that right after every time my left hand enters the water, I am turning to breathe -- as the left arm is extending, I am breathing. And every time my right arm enters the water, my face is submerged and I am rotating to the left -- but not breathing. Were I to breathe then, too, it would be breathing every stroke, and I'd quivkly resemble a bobble-head doll! As I said to you the other day, one of the few truly functional tools in my swimming toolbox is breathing, which I find easy to do and am fairly inefficient at. That is, I can do it without disrupting my body line very much at all -- just as long as it's to my right. (When breathing bilaterally, things are not near as smooth and efficient -- which si why I only do it doing workouts and not in races.) So, even though I breathe mostly okay when swimming....... Breathing every sixth stroke is very hard on me. If my turnover is fairly high, which is 24 strokes per 25m, I can make it from one end to the other with four breaths. I am fine at this point, but about 3/4 of the way back I am beginning to become uncomfortable short of oxygen; by the time I hit the wall on thr return, I'm gassed. So, when swimming hard I can make it about 42m before I start to get hypoxic. Were I to turn immediately at the wall and continue, I would very soon have to change my breathing to every 4th or every 2nd stroke. And by very soon, I mean by halfway through that third 25m, at the most. If I relax a bit and swim more leisurely, using about 21 strokes for each 25m and breathing every sixth stroke, I am in better shape by the 50m mark. I could probably continue that way --breathing every 6th -- for another 25m, and then I might have to breathe more regularly, such as every 4th or 2nd. The trade-off for me comes when I look at speed for those 50m. When my arm turnover is fast and I'm breathing every 6th, I do the 50m in 47 or 48 seconds. When my turnover is more relaxed, I am done with the 50m in 50/51 seconds. Granted, I would love to be able to work that hard AND breathe that infrequently --- but my lungs cannot sustain it. Heck, even when I relax, I'm not good for more than 75m breathing every sixth stroke! ANYHOW.....all those numbers aside.....I just wanted to see for myself how difficult it might be for you to swim happily breathing so infrequently. And, as I suspected, I can only imagine how cacaphonously your lungs are hollering at you by the time you've done a length of the pool! So, again, if you are a one-sided breather, look to breathe very 2nd or 4th stroke; if you breathe to both sides, do it every third stroke. The simple math for a unilateral breather tells you that every other stroke allows for twice as many breaths compared with breathing every fourth stroke, so that should help your breathing problems enormously. And if you can master the fine art of the Full Exhale, you'll be good to go great distances in no time flat. Glub, glub!


Mastering the art of the Full Exhale is the key... my exhale seems to last too long -- I am planning a swim tonight so I will work on exhaling more forcefully to see if I can get it working better.
Thanks!
Alex 
2011-02-17 3:27 PM
in reply to: #3344022

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Subject: RE: Got Your Mojo WORKIN'! group - CLOSED
ckallpoints - 2011-02-07 5:56 PM Kasia

If you are using one of the plans on BT I know it can be customized. You can combine different  parts of different plans. I'm not sure how to do it. You have to be a bronze or silver member to do it if I recall correctly.


Craig,

Last year I followed a pretty structured/specific plan from a book called Triathlete Magazine's Week-by-Week Training Guide (linked here on Amazon). I liked that it told me exactly what to do and when. But, now, per your suggestion, it seems like I may switch over to BT's plans. Seems like they're more customize-able and would fit my lifestyle better.

Thanks!
Kasia
2011-02-17 3:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Got Your Mojo WORKIN'! group - CLOSED
augeremt - 2011-02-17 1:27 PM
ckallpoints - 2011-02-07 5:56 PM Kasia

If you are using one of the plans on BT I know it can be customized. You can combine different  parts of different plans. I'm not sure how to do it. You have to be a bronze or silver member to do it if I recall correctly.


Craig,

Last year I followed a pretty structured/specific plan from a book called Triathlete Magazine's Week-by-Week Training Guide (linked here on Amazon). I liked that it told me exactly what to do and when. But, now, per your suggestion, it seems like I may switch over to BT's plans. Seems like they're more customize-able and would fit my lifestyle better.

Thanks!
Kasia


I like to log all my workouts on here too.


2011-02-17 3:39 PM
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DANIEL -

By your standards, how rad is "rad"? By my standards, our weather is fairly rad, about 40F, with tomorrow approaching 50F. I might try an outside ride tomorrow, but if it's raining I'll just sigh deeply, pout a bit, and screw up my patience for another few weeks.

And by Saturday, it'll be back to typical mid-Feb temps here. But for now -- it's rad!


2011-02-17 3:41 PM
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ALEX -

Have a good swim tonight! I will be sending along some vintage exhalation mojo, too, just in case you need it!





2011-02-17 3:52 PM
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SHANNEN -

Well......maybe......not getting out to run as much as you would like MIGHT account for that minute! Then again, that's what this time of year is partially about -- squeezing in workouts around family commitments and the wee vagaries of weather. I'm sure you'll get that minute back -- and then some -- once the actual season gets sizzling and you find getting outside something that is actually desirable!

You are very lucky to have a rails-to-trails right in your town. I was a huge sucker for trains when I was a kid, and anytime I can get on an r-t-t I become very nostalgic. Unfortuantely, up here, the r-t-t movement is still in its infancy. I'm not sure why this is. Canada may still be more rail-dependent, and I think historically there were far fewer smaller rail carriers, meaning less abandoned rail lines.

ANYHOW, I envy you your local r-t-t path!


2011-02-17 3:56 PM
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BRENDA -

(1) Pssst! You're overdue for a break!
(2) Back to 35. What a fickle, capricious system!
(3) How far are you from Granger, IN?


2011-02-17 4:33 PM
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My right knee is bugging me a little bit on the inside and bottom of the knee. Its not to bad when I'm running more when I'm walking. Right now the plan is to just deal with it. Its not causing enough pain to quit running or anything I just know its there.


2011-02-17 5:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Got Your Mojo WORKIN'! group - CLOSED
stevebradley - 2011-02-17 1:39 PM DANIEL - By your standards, how rad is "rad"? By my standards, our weather is fairly rad, about 40F, with tomorrow approaching 50F. I might try an outside ride tomorrow, but if it's raining I'll just sigh deeply, pout a bit, and screw up my patience for another few weeks. And by Saturday, it'll be back to typical mid-Feb temps here. But for now -- it's rad!


Rad is all relative.  It is 51F right now with a very slight wind. It is chillyin the shade but totally lovely and comfy in the sun.  I call it RAD.
2011-02-17 5:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Got Your Mojo WORKIN'! group - CLOSED
70+ degrees 20 mph winds and gusty...allergy season approaching
2011-02-18 10:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Got Your Mojo WORKIN'! group - CLOSED
stevebradley - 2011-02-17 4:41 PM ALEX - Have a good swim tonight! I will be sending along some vintage exhalation mojo, too, just in case you need it!


STEVE --  OK, this swimming is just more difficult than I thought... I had a lesson last night, my instructor had me swim 4 straight laps with using an "aggressive" stroke and breathing every 4 strokes.   I have decided, I am just out of shape for swimming and need to be in the pool much more.  I need to just swim and work on technique.  There isn't some magic bullet to get the swim down I just need to swim more.  It's sort of like TKD for me, just go and do it everyday if possible to get the moves down and get the fitness in...
After swimming an hour I went off to a CrossFit class... man are they a brutal workout!

I can definitely use all of the swimming MOJO the group has...  Cool

Thanks!
Alex 
2011-02-18 4:58 PM
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JEFF -

Ack! Well, actually, I am not allergy-prone, but Lynn is and I have suffered vicariously through her for 37 years now. For her, though, she still has a few months about things get gnarly for her and her allergies. May yours not get the best of you this year!


2011-02-18 5:02 PM
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CHEESEHEADS!

Wow, wild times in Madison and throughout the state, it seems. I was pleased to hear that the Packers players came out in support of the unions, and will be curious if the Bucks and Brewers weigh in as well. Although, I guess with the impending NFL lockout it makes sense that this would be more of a hot-button situation for the Packers.

Are things any more stable today?



2011-02-18 5:10 PM
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LAURA -

With regards to the above post, were you affected by the teacher strikes yesterday; i.e., did your board strike?

While I am pro-union in general, I was forever thankful that at the school at which I finishd my career, we never faced a strike situation. That was because we weren't unionized, which led to frequent abuses of us, but at least that didn't force me into going against my belief that teachers are an essential service and shouldn't jeopardize the kids by going on strike. Over the years it has happened at many school boards in Ontario, and I just would've hated to be in that position. Hopefully it didn't come to pass that way with you yesterday -- that you weren't put in a personally untenable situation.

Beyond all this teaching/union stuff.......how're you doing? You've been fairly silent recently, and I hope all is well with you!


2011-02-18 5:14 PM
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GEORGE -

And while on the topic of current events, I see that an arrest was made of a suspect in the poisoning of those live oaks under which Auburn supporters celebrate their athletic successes, and that the guy is a fervent Crimson Tider. Just wondering -- you didn't aid and abet him in any way, did you?



2011-02-18 5:15 PM
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jslacker - 2011-02-08 2:14 AM Found out my fate.  It's a century ride.  He is letting me pick it though because he doesn't want to mess up my training.  Looks like a century ride in June. 


John,

A century ride doesn't seem too bad. Especially if you get to pick which one. Very nice of him, either way.

Kasia
2011-02-18 5:33 PM
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ALEX -

Please don't despair, and take solace and comfort in the fact that SO many of us have been in the position you're in right now. Like, really -- SOOOOOO many of us! I'm sure I've told you that before, but I just feel obliged to say it again. The learning curve is, at times, more like a series of switchbacks on a mountain, and you have to keep the faith that for most of us, improvements do indeed happen with tme -- especially if that time is liberally laced with as much swimming as you can squeeze in.

HOWEVER! That is not to say that you have to look at 4/5/6 times a week; two or three focused sessions should help a lot. What is good about your post is that you seem to have come to this position on your own, or at least the part about swimming more than you're doing now. I'm just saying that you don't have to structure your life around pool visits!

I know I have said before that the best swimming results come from sessions in which only one or two technique points are addressed at a time. That is, don't try to create an Elite Swimming Machine out of yourself in one or two bang-up, full-bore sessions!

Another thing I'm sure I have mentioned is to stop what you're doing when you feel your form is falling apart. So many people get caught up in (a) amassing yardage ("Gotta do 3200 tonight!!!!!!!!") and (b) getting their money's worth from any given session. Sometimes if you pay-as-you-go, you want to get the most out of the session, so you devote yourself to filling the entire hour. I have a six-month swim pass, and that is great for eliminating those feelings. If a session doesn't seem to "be working" after, say, 20 minutes, I just leave and count on the next visit being better.

But I digress on that last point, which really comes down to how easily bad habits can be instilled. For me, the big bugaboo was implanting a somewhat poor catch, and twinned with that was a relatively ineffective pull that was characterized by dropped elbows. Both of those not only took root early in my swim "career", but got exacerbated by fatigue -- so me doing looooong swim sessions only made matters worse, instilling bad habits that are really tough to break.

You WILL get better, Alex, I can be about 97.834% certain. Just look at the small setails each swim session, and have fiath in yourself that you can work through the tough parts. You have shown tremendous mental and physical discipline in martial arts, and now Crossfit, and swimming is just another way for you to dig deep into those wellsprings of resources you utilize in other ways.

Glub, glub!!


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