General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Swimming Cadence vs. Power Rss Feed  
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2008-02-29 7:45 AM

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Master
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St. Louis
Subject: Swimming Cadence vs. Power
I have been swimming a lot more than I used to and I am noticably getting faster... so thats good. I have a question for the good swimmers though. I can consistently hit ~1:37 / 100 doing intervals at 1:50min. Im trying to make this even faster.

When trying to swim faster, particularly for 50-100m sprint sessions, should I be focusing on pulling harder, or more strokes/min?

I realize the simple answer is both, but... I come from a cycling background and I realize that "mashing" isnt always the best way to generate more power and travel faster. Im thinking this translates somehow into swimming as well.

So, should I focus on increasing my swimming "cadence" or pulling harder(essentially giving myself a longer glide)?

Thoughts from the swim gurus appreciated


2008-02-29 8:23 AM
in reply to: #1243141

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Master
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Subject: RE: Swimming Cadence vs. Power

ranger5oh - 2008-02-29 8:45 AM I have been swimming a lot more than I used to and I am noticably getting faster... so thats good. I have a question for the good swimmers though. I can consistently hit ~1:37 / 100 doing intervals at 1:50min. Im trying to make this even faster. When trying to swim faster, particularly for 50-100m sprint sessions, should I be focusing on pulling harder, or more strokes/min? I realize the simple answer is both, but... I come from a cycling background and I realize that "mashing" isnt always the best way to generate more power and travel faster. Im thinking this translates somehow into swimming as well. So, should I focus on increasing my swimming "cadence" or pulling harder(essentially giving myself a longer glide)? Thoughts from the swim gurus appreciated

Mostly pull harder.  Good swimmers just pull harder and don't vary their stroke count much in relation to speed.  Play some swim golf and see what happens.  You should find your point of diminishing returns where you start slipping your arm through the water as opposed to pulling.   

2008-02-29 8:32 AM
in reply to: #1243141

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Veteran
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Subject: RE: Swimming Cadence vs. Power
Swim golf - what's that?  Like practicing your golf swing in the water but playing around with the speed of the swing?
2008-02-29 8:34 AM
in reply to: #1243141

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Swimming Cadence vs. Power
Swim golf is when you add the # of strokes you take to the # of seconds it takes you.  Lower is better and is a pretty good gauge of how well you imrpove from week to week.
2008-02-29 8:47 AM
in reply to: #1243141

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Champion
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Brandon, MS
Subject: RE: Swimming Cadence vs. Power

I've found some drills like pull and glide, or some single arm work really helped.  I would think at a point, your strokes per whatever distance would be counterproductive as a waste of energy.  Conversely you don't want to be ripping the water and trying to pull the entire pool either. 

A lot of that drill work helped me lower my strokes per 100 yards from 80 to about 70-72, and I cut my pace by 10 seconds.  So from personal experience, I'd say form and pull are more important.

2008-02-29 9:05 AM
in reply to: #1243141

Subject: ...
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Edited by surfwallace 2008-02-29 9:08 AM


2008-02-29 9:32 AM
in reply to: #1243141

Expert
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Subject: RE: Swimming Cadence vs. Power

I'll throw in a slightly different perspective. You'll need to find out what cadence is most efficient for you. Instead of simply trying to lower your stroke count for the sake of a lower stroke count or using more force with every stroke, you may find that you're actually more efficient with a higher stroke count. Use the swim golf as a reference. The most effective part of the pull occurs up front - you're engaging your big, core muscles (lats) and you've got "clean" water. Once you start pushing you start using smaller muscles (triceps), so you don't get as much bang for your buck. Vary your release (waist, thigh, push out the back), to get a feel for what's most comfortable and gives you the best results. A higher stroke count also means more oppotunities to breathe. A higher turnover is probably most beneficial to a sprinter, but everybody's different, and having a feel for different cadences gives you more gears. If you want to pass somebody during an OWS, you can quicken your turnover  to zip past them, then settle back into your normal rhythmn.

2008-02-29 10:31 AM
in reply to: #1243141

Master
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Subject: RE: Swimming Cadence vs. Power

If you can do 10x100 on 1:50, your next goal should be to build to 10x100 on 1:45.  Keep your stroke long and efficient.  Increasing your turnover (cadence) will just get you tired more quickly. 

On occasion do some speed sets like 6x50 or 6x100 on lots of rest.  Kind of like doing strides.  Your turnover will be faster on these because you're sprinting.

I see that you recently joined a Master's program.  If you swim with them 3x or 3 hours per week regularly you'll get faster without thinking about this stuff!

Brian 

2008-02-29 10:37 AM
in reply to: #1243141

Master
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St. Louis
Subject: RE: Swimming Cadence vs. Power
Guys thanks! This is great info. Its actually somewhat counter to what I was thinking, which is why this is so helpful. My swim pales in comparison to my bike/run, and I am hoping to get it more in line with the other disciplines.

Thanks... Im going to try swim golf tonight
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