General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Time Trial Swim Starts vs Mass or Wave starts Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2008-03-05 4:29 PM


1069
10002525
Subject: Time Trial Swim Starts vs Mass or Wave starts
Two out of the last three TRIs I have done have used a Time Trial Swim start. They ask you to estimate your swim time when you register. The race numbers are issued based on that time. Everone lined up line by the numbers and started at 10 sec intervals. I like this type of swim start much better then the mass or even the wave. Here in the midwest more Triathlons are going to this type of start. It seems safer with less chance of getting kicked or swam over and your goggles ripped off your face. All of which have happened in mass starts. What is everyones opinion on this?


2008-03-05 4:48 PM
in reply to: #1254754

Veteran
277
100100252525
Syracuse, NY
Subject: RE: Time Trial Swim Starts vs Mass or Wave starts
sounds like a good idea to me!

strategically, however, it would really reduce the likelyhood of me being able to match up with a good draft - which in the water can make a huge difference.
2008-03-05 4:52 PM
in reply to: #1254754

User image

Champion
5575
5000500252525
Butler
Subject: RE: Time Trial Swim Starts vs Mass or Wave starts
I have done 3 mass start and 3 TT start.  The TT starts have all been in a pool so a must.  I actually prefer the mass start better.  I like the contact and IMO, is really what a Tri start is known for.  The sport is supposed to be hard and doing TT just makes it easier.  I say unless there is some reason like they had at IMKY this year stick to mass/wave starts.
2008-03-05 4:54 PM
in reply to: #1254754

User image

Member
1699
1000500100252525
Subject: RE: Time Trial Swim Starts vs Mass or Wave starts
My problem with time trial starts is that many people don't know or use their real swim time. I saw people literally enter world class times in a small tri and then do the breaststroke and rest after each lap in a 300 yard swim. I also saw a great duathlete, a woman who actually has won the event, put a swim time down that was 45 seconds off in that 300 yard swim and a minute better than her time the previous year. I have to believe she knew better, because she is elite. It was either pride or the selfish wish to be the first female finisher. Regardless, I saw four swimmers piled up behind her and she would not let them pass.

I think the other problem with time trial starts is that it takes longer for the event to finish. I would like to stay for everyone to finish but it can be along time when it takes 90 minutes for everyone to start.
2008-03-05 4:55 PM
in reply to: #1254754

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2008-03-05 6:13 PM
in reply to: #1254754

Veteran
285
100100252525
Broomfield, Colorado
Subject: RE: Time Trial Swim Starts vs Mass or Wave starts
I'm not a big fan. Can't tell how you're doing when everyone didn't start at the same time. But I'm also a fairly strong swimmer, so I pass fewer people in mass starts than I do in TT starts.

I actually like the anticipation of the IM deep water starts. Nothing like 2,000 people trying to cram into the same 10 square feet of water.


2008-03-05 7:42 PM
in reply to: #1254754

Elite
3687
20001000500100252525
Subject: RE: Time Trial Swim Starts vs Mass or Wave starts
Hate TT starts.  Did one at a pretty murky lake last year and I was #480 or something like that.  You know what it's like to run through a murky shoreline after 479 others have.  I like mixing it up with the crowds.  The bigger the better. 
2008-03-05 8:00 PM
in reply to: #1254754

Master
2314
2000100100100
Gulf Shores, AL
Subject: RE: Time Trial Swim Starts vs Mass or Wave starts
I don't like Time Trial starts for competitive reasons. Though I am not a podium racer in the least, I try to chase down folks in my age group and with the time trial start, you could find yourself chasing down someone to win, pass them and still lose because of where they started in the swim. I think racing against competitors brings out your best as opposed to racing a clock.
2008-03-05 8:02 PM
in reply to: #1254754

DC
Subject: RE: Time Trial Swim Starts vs Mass or Wave starts
My first tri had wave starts, mostly by age group but there was a special "First timers" wave that I entered. Turned out to be a mistake, as we were the last wave, and started a good 45 minutes after the first wave. Nothing quite so discouraging as seeing people finish the bike as you're coming in from a swim, especially for a first timer.
2008-03-05 8:15 PM
in reply to: #1254754

Extreme Veteran
436
10010010010025
Subject: RE: Time Trial Swim Starts vs Mass or Wave starts
I hate TT starts as well. I have seen (as other have already mentioned) people who think they should be in Kona seed themselves at the front when after a few minutes it is clear they should be no where near the front. When I start with mass start senarios I always start to the outside make some passes then make a move when needed. Triathlons are supposed to be hectic at the start, thats what tri's are, if we were afraid of a couple kicks and punches "pain" we would play golf or tennis.
2008-03-06 12:26 AM
in reply to: #1254754

Expert
1013
1000
White House, TN
Subject: RE: Time Trial Swim Starts vs Mass or Wave starts

Heheh, you want crazy?  Try a Time Trial WAVE start. (caveat: I'm currently deployed to Iraq, so I'll put up with anything in order to do multisport.)

Did a biathlon (500m swim/ 5k run) this weekend with a Time Trial Wave start.  5 lanes of the pool, two swimmers splitting a lane.  When ALL of the first 10 swimmers are done, the next ten enter the pool.  Luckily, I was in the second heat; my buddies were in the 5th.  I was able to complete the whole race and come back and watch them start their swim.  I feel bad for those who have to stand and wait almost an hour before they can start their race.

The one thing they do right is that everyone who registers for the biathlon has to complete a 500m TT which is timed by one of the lifeguards.  There's no guess work involved; you're seeded by your actual performance.

Like I said, madness.  But again, a GREAT blessing!

 



Edited by Hawkeye 2008-03-06 12:27 AM


2008-03-06 10:00 AM
in reply to: #1254754

Master
1240
100010010025
Knightdale/Raleigh
Subject: RE: Time Trial Swim Starts vs Mass or Wave starts

It just doesn't feel like a single event with TT starts. It just makes for a very stretched out race.

I've only done one wave start and no mass starts. I liked the wave start, enough crowd to be exciting, but not overwhelming.

My race saturday, I'm considering canceling my hotel reservation and drive 2 hours that morning because I don't start until 10:35. The 1st age group awards will be handed out at 10:30.

I like that they will hold packet and chip pickup open until 9:30 so I don't have to get there so early, but I worry about all of the early finishers packing up transition, late starters setting up, all while the middle group is running through transition.

2008-03-06 4:09 PM
in reply to: #1254754

Expert
1022
1000
Subject: RE: Time Trial Swim Starts vs Mass or Wave starts
In one way, it's nice, especially for beginners. There's no mass confusion at the beginning.

My daughter, a swimmer, did a Time Trial Start last year, and she didn't like it that much. She was seeded 6th overall, and actually came out of the swim in 2nd place overall. Her issues:
A) She put in a her real time, and went slower than that. She still passed 4 of the 5 people in front of her within the first 2 laps. The person in 1st was a swimmer for UC Santa Cruz, and also entered a real time.
B) She spent the rest of the race being passed by guys, through the entire race. There was no real point where she got into her own pace group because she started 10 minutes ahead of anyone else of anyone else who would be going at her bike speed.
C) She had no idea of how she was doing compared to any other women.

She's actually asking me to seed her lower this year, so she isn't constantly being passed in the bike, but that won't work either, because then the passing lanes are going to be congested.
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Time Trial Swim Starts vs Mass or Wave starts Rss Feed