Other Resources My Cup of Joe » Father/Daughter Talk Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, the bear, DerekL, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 2
 
 
2008-03-06 1:24 PM
in reply to: #1256684

User image

Resident Curmudgeon
25290
50005000500050005000100100252525
The Road Back
Gold member
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk

Xan - 2008-03-06 1:20 PM  I wonder where the old-fashioned virtue of self-improvement has gone?

The liberals taxed all the incentive right out of it.

Cool



2008-03-06 1:32 PM
in reply to: #1256694

User image

Expert
660
5001002525
Central New York
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk
the bear - 2008-03-06 2:24 PM

Xan - 2008-03-06 1:20 PM  I wonder where the old-fashioned virtue of self-improvement has gone?

The liberals taxed all the incentive right out of it.

Cool



Bear, I dig you.

I'll also add this...a point which too easily get overlooked in the age of stars and stripes lapel pins and "love it or leave it" patriotism:

In my opinion, the most American value of all is the recognition that self-improvement and monetary accumulation have only the most distant relationship to one another. If that's our only measurement of worth, we are skee-rewed.
2008-03-06 2:29 PM
in reply to: #1256713

User image

Sneaky Slow
8694
500020001000500100252525
Herndon, VA,
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk
Xan - 2008-03-06 2:32 PM
the bear - 2008-03-06 2:24 PM

Xan - 2008-03-06 1:20 PM I wonder where the old-fashioned virtue of self-improvement has gone?

The liberals taxed all the incentive right out of it.

Cool

Bear, I dig you. I'll also add this...a point which too easily get overlooked in the age of stars and stripes lapel pins and "love it or leave it" patriotism: In my opinion, the most American value of all is the recognition that self-improvement and monetary accumulation have only the most distant relationship to one another. If that's our only measurement of worth, we are skee-rewed.

I find that a healthy sense of humor is also another good measurement of worth.  So since I have more than one measurement of worth, does that make me skee-rewed?  I hope not. 

And for the record, I still think that lightening up a smidge would be a good thing.

I was about to post the dictionary definition of "smidge" here, but it turns out that is it not a word, in fact.  I suppose that is because I am an American who valorizes my obviously limited vocabluelarry (I'm not sure how to spell it because I have a limited (that word that I can't spell)).

2008-03-06 2:44 PM
in reply to: #1255985

User image

Coach
10487
50005000100100100100252525
Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk
LOL, that's pretty funny, but I think Bear's post was even funnier  
2008-03-06 2:47 PM
in reply to: #1255985

User image

Champion
6962
500010005001001001001002525
Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk

If I have money AND a sense of humor, can I laugh at the money?

Or do I laugh because I have money?  And I don't know what Valorize means...must google it.

2008-03-06 2:48 PM
in reply to: #1256888

Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk
newleaf - 2008-03-06 3:29 PM

I suppose that is because I am an American who valorizes my obviously limited vocabluelarry (I'm not sure how to spell it because I have a limited (that word that I can't spell)).

Sweet - I am SOOO taking you on in Scrabble.

Big words are awesome.



2008-03-06 2:48 PM
in reply to: #1255985

User image

Champion
6962
500010005001001001001002525
Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk
val·or·ize Pronunciation (vl-rz)
tr.v. val·or·ized, val·or·iz·ing, val·or·iz·es
1. To establish and maintain the price of (a commodity) by governmental action.
2. To give or assign a value to: "The prophets valorized history" Mircea Eliade.
2008-03-06 3:00 PM
in reply to: #1256244

User image

Elite
2733
200050010010025
Venture Industries,
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk
Xan - 2008-03-06 11:40 AM
newleaf - 2008-03-06 11:32 AM

Xan - 2008-03-06 10:48 AM It only barely stirs my pot. No real willingness here to examine how and by what means wealth is concentrated in the hands of a relative few. The idea that your wealth (or anyone's) is generated in the same way that a student earns her GPA is so simplistic as to be utterly useless. Ok, ok, funny I guess, hey I don't take myself so seriously that I can't laugh at myself.

Fixed.

 

It's tired, worn out, useless illogic that highlights what I consider the worst and most self-interested aspects of our culture. I'm no more inclined to laugh at these lampoons of the left (or the right) than I am to chuckle at a really "funny" (insert racial minority here) joke. Those who know me understand that I don't take myself all that seriously. Other people and their politics I take very seriously.

Are you kidding me....?  Are you saying, in total seriousness, with an absolute straight face, that making fun of the political values of a political party, whether it's the actual values or the perceived values, is equal to making racial jokes?   Really???   No I mean it Really?  I guess then political satarists like John Stewart or Steven Colbert are akin to racists in your book?   Or is some political satire OK with you, but it just depends on the issue and the subject that is being satarized?

By the way, equating jokes about a political party to jokes about race is (1) demeaning to the struggle that is the effect of racisim; (2) diminishes the prevalence of racism; (2) is PC bullying.  (3) despite your assertion, equating it to racisim doesn't foster discussion it actually prevents it.

It may be your opinion, but of course opinions can be wrong.  And it's MY OPINION that equating a joke about a political party with a racial joke is idiotic.

In the imortal words of Sgt. Hulka: 'Lighten-up Francise"

2008-03-06 3:48 PM
in reply to: #1256994

User image

Expert
660
5001002525
Central New York
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk
ASA22 - 2008-03-06 4:00 PM

Xan - 2008-03-06 11:40 AM
newleaf - 2008-03-06 11:32 AM

Xan - 2008-03-06 10:48 AM It only barely stirs my pot. No real willingness here to examine how and by what means wealth is concentrated in the hands of a relative few. The idea that your wealth (or anyone's) is generated in the same way that a student earns her GPA is so simplistic as to be utterly useless. Ok, ok, funny I guess, hey I don't take myself so seriously that I can't laugh at myself.

Fixed.

 

It's tired, worn out, useless illogic that highlights what I consider the worst and most self-interested aspects of our culture. I'm no more inclined to laugh at these lampoons of the left (or the right) than I am to chuckle at a really "funny" (insert racial minority here) joke. Those who know me understand that I don't take myself all that seriously. Other people and their politics I take very seriously.

Are you kidding me....?  Are you saying, in total seriousness, with an absolute straight face, that making fun of the political values of a political party, whether it's the actual values or the perceived values, is equal to making racial jokes?   Really???   No I mean it Really?  I guess then political satarists like John Stewart or Steven Colbert are akin to racists in your book?   Or is some political satire OK with you, but it just depends on the issue and the subject that is being satarized?

By the way, equating jokes about a political party to jokes about race is (1) demeaning to the struggle that is the effect of racisim; (2) diminishes the prevalence of racism; (2) is PC bullying.  (3) despite your assertion, equating it to racisim doesn't foster discussion it actually prevents it.

It may be your opinion, but of course opinions can be wrong.  And it's MY OPINION that equating a joke about a political party with a racial joke is idiotic.

In the imortal words of Sgt. Hulka: 'Lighten-up Francise"



Surely, you must be able see that the two aren't equated anywhere in my original statement. I said I don't laugh at either because they share something in common, i.e., gross oversimplification and stick-figure abstractions in the place of nuanced understanding. That they have this in common doesn't make them the same, and I didn't say they were.

I'm no longer shocked, but I am somehow saddened, that discussion along these lines elicits the suggestion to "lighten up." Perhaps it is Comedy Central's fault that so many understand our most crucial public debates mostly as the opportunity for clever punchlines and zany "satirical" zingers. I'll not lighten up where yuks are the product of dumbed-down, reflexive divisiveness, as was the case with the orignal post.
2008-03-06 3:58 PM
in reply to: #1257174

User image

Elite
2733
200050010010025
Venture Industries,
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk
Xan - 2008-03-06 4:48 PM
ASA22 - 2008-03-06 4:00 PM
Xan - 2008-03-06 11:40 AM
newleaf - 2008-03-06 11:32 AM

Xan - 2008-03-06 10:48 AM It only barely stirs my pot. No real willingness here to examine how and by what means wealth is concentrated in the hands of a relative few. The idea that your wealth (or anyone's) is generated in the same way that a student earns her GPA is so simplistic as to be utterly useless. Ok, ok, funny I guess, hey I don't take myself so seriously that I can't laugh at myself.

Fixed.

 

It's tired, worn out, useless illogic that highlights what I consider the worst and most self-interested aspects of our culture. I'm no more inclined to laugh at these lampoons of the left (or the right) than I am to chuckle at a really "funny" (insert racial minority here) joke. Those who know me understand that I don't take myself all that seriously. Other people and their politics I take very seriously.

Are you kidding me....?  Are you saying, in total seriousness, with an absolute straight face, that making fun of the political values of a political party, whether it's the actual values or the perceived values, is equal to making racial jokes?   Really???   No I mean it Really?  I guess then political satarists like John Stewart or Steven Colbert are akin to racists in your book?   Or is some political satire OK with you, but it just depends on the issue and the subject that is being satarized?

By the way, equating jokes about a political party to jokes about race is (1) demeaning to the struggle that is the effect of racisim; (2) diminishes the prevalence of racism; (2) is PC bullying.  (3) despite your assertion, equating it to racisim doesn't foster discussion it actually prevents it.

It may be your opinion, but of course opinions can be wrong.  And it's MY OPINION that equating a joke about a political party with a racial joke is idiotic.

In the imortal words of Sgt. Hulka: 'Lighten-up Francise"

Surely, you must be able see that the two aren't equated anywhere in my original statement. I said I don't laugh at either because they share something in common, i.e., gross oversimplification and stick-figure abstractions in the place of nuanced understanding. That they have this in common doesn't make them the same, and I didn't say they were. I'm no longer shocked, but I am somehow saddened, that discussion along these lines elicits the suggestion to "lighten up." Perhaps it is Comedy Central's fault that so many understand our most crucial public debates mostly as the opportunity for clever punchlines and zany "satirical" zingers. I'll not lighten up where yuks are the product of dumbed-down, reflexive divisiveness, as was the case with the orignal post.

You must be a ball at parties!  

next time someone tells a joke like that, we'll be sure to talk about the historic aspects of the rise of the particular party along with the historical, cultural and social issues that lead to a particular party position on a particular issue.  Then of course we'll make sure to include a specific reference to a particular candidate and then of course discuss his particular ideologies as outlined in his public speaches and his demonstrable voting record or lack thereof.

It's humor...humor is not political analysis...it doesn't pretend to be.  Anyone that get's their information about politics from John Stewart is a fool....John Stewert, Steven Colbert, are comedians, not political analysists.  If you see them as such, you're missing the point.

And as Sgt. Hulka said.... 

2008-03-06 4:00 PM
in reply to: #1255985

User image

Master
2571
20005002525
Tiger's Den
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk

And here I came to this thread thinking it was either about a nice, emotional dialog between a dad and his little girl, or something funny about having "the talk" involving birds and bees, and I see it's a political back and forth.

Silly me.

 



2008-03-06 4:00 PM
in reply to: #1257207

User image

Buttercup
14334
500050002000200010010010025
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk

I think the folks who keep telling Xan to lighten up need to lighten up.

And to that end...

 



Edited by Renee 2008-03-06 4:02 PM




(ch argue.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
ch argue.jpg (6KB - 14 downloads)
2008-03-06 4:07 PM
in reply to: #1257174

User image

Expert
828
50010010010025
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk
Xan - 2008-03-06 3:48 PM

ASA22 - 2008-03-06 4:00 PM

Xan - 2008-03-06 11:40 AM
newleaf - 2008-03-06 11:32 AM

Xan - 2008-03-06 10:48 AM It only barely stirs my pot. No real willingness here to examine how and by what means wealth is concentrated in the hands of a relative few. The idea that your wealth (or anyone's) is generated in the same way that a student earns her GPA is so simplistic as to be utterly useless. Ok, ok, funny I guess, hey I don't take myself so seriously that I can't laugh at myself.

Fixed.

 

It's tired, worn out, useless illogic that highlights what I consider the worst and most self-interested aspects of our culture. I'm no more inclined to laugh at these lampoons of the left (or the right) than I am to chuckle at a really "funny" (insert racial minority here) joke. Those who know me understand that I don't take myself all that seriously. Other people and their politics I take very seriously.

Are you kidding me....?  Are you saying, in total seriousness, with an absolute straight face, that making fun of the political values of a political party, whether it's the actual values or the perceived values, is equal to making racial jokes?   Really???   No I mean it Really?  I guess then political satarists like John Stewart or Steven Colbert are akin to racists in your book?   Or is some political satire OK with you, but it just depends on the issue and the subject that is being satarized?

By the way, equating jokes about a political party to jokes about race is (1) demeaning to the struggle that is the effect of racisim; (2) diminishes the prevalence of racism; (2) is PC bullying.  (3) despite your assertion, equating it to racisim doesn't foster discussion it actually prevents it.

It may be your opinion, but of course opinions can be wrong.  And it's MY OPINION that equating a joke about a political party with a racial joke is idiotic.

In the imortal words of Sgt. Hulka: 'Lighten-up Francise"



Surely, you must be able see that the two aren't equated anywhere in my original statement. I said I don't laugh at either because they share something in common, i.e., gross oversimplification and stick-figure abstractions in the place of nuanced understanding. That they have this in common doesn't make them the same, and I didn't say they were.

I'm no longer shocked, but I am somehow saddened, that discussion along these lines elicits the suggestion to "lighten up." Perhaps it is Comedy Central's fault that so many understand our most crucial public debates mostly as the opportunity for clever punchlines and zany "satirical" zingers. I'll not lighten up where yuks are the product of dumbed-down, reflexive divisiveness, as was the case with the orignal post.



IMO, the yuks are the only worthwhile thing to come from all that we know as politics. The latest fiasco being the democrats trying to figure out their own rules and come up with a candidate....The thought of potentially spending millions of my own money on campaigning to win a job that pays a quarter mil screams, "LOOK AT ME!" It is all about ego. Hugely inflated egos. These people CANNOT relate to 'us'....multimillionaires reviewing some study by a sociologist, getting with their brain trust (also wealthy individuals) to come up with a problem to REALLY help? Sorry. I don't buy it.....some of the BS that comes from their mouth...Comedy Central is the most appropriate place for it to be aired. I am jaded to the whole thing. I see the previous Clinton using the position soley for huge monetary gain. I am thinking the same or our current pres. Now Hillary? Mccain? Whoever posted earlier saying this is a perfect time for another revolution, I am thinking you may be right......................
2008-03-06 4:13 PM
in reply to: #1257211

User image

Elite
2733
200050010010025
Venture Industries,
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk
Renee - 2008-03-06 5:00 PM

I think the folks who keep telling Xan to lighten up need to lighten up.

And to that end...

 

You know what Renee, you're right.  Xan, I have no right to tell you how to view humor.  You of course are free to find something funny, not funny, idiotic, or high-brow.  It is clearly foolish of me to try to insert my view of humor upon you. 

 

I apologize for trying to force my views upon you, I hope this apology somehow leads at least to an ability to further productive dialogue, or at the very least allows us to seek closure regarding this matter.

 

 

2008-03-06 4:37 PM
in reply to: #1257243

User image

Expert
660
5001002525
Central New York
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk
ASA22 - 2008-03-06 5:13 PM

Renee - 2008-03-06 5:00 PM

I think the folks who keep telling Xan to lighten up need to lighten up.

And to that end...

 

You know what Renee, you're right.  Xan, I have no right to tell you how to view humor.  You of course are free to find something funny, not funny, idiotic, or high-brow.  It is clearly foolish of me to try to insert my view of humor upon you. 

 

I apologize for trying to force my views upon you, I hope this apology somehow leads at least to an ability to further productive dialogue, or at the very least allows us to seek closure regarding this matter.

 

 



I appreciate the sentiment, but really, there's no apology necessary. I didn't understand your comments as trying to force anything on me. I hope maybe you'll look back over my comments and see that I haven't been trying to force anything on anyone either.

As you say, I'm simply sticking up for my right not to laugh at certain things and to feel lousy about the current state of political debate/discourse. Believe me, I understand the dejection and cynicism you've expressed. I've purposely tried to steer this away from a discussion about how Dems are better than Republicans or vice versa.

Stewart and Colbert are good for highlighting the absurdity, the wastefulness, and the staggering stupidity of our process. I'm just a firm believer that we can't stop there. That we can only lose in a culture where the father/daughter joke is seen as funny or somehow poignant.

Anyway, let me say to you and everyone who has been reading, the only thing I think we have to accept (in this country) is some repsonsibility for doing better than we've done over the last, say, fifty or sixty years. The trajectory this country has traveled since the end of WW2 is pitiful. And there's nothing partisan about that.

I am going to have a beer right now and then watch Flight of the Conchords. I don't figure I'll be ready for a revolution afterwards, but I'll feel better for having a good laugh.
2008-03-06 5:48 PM
in reply to: #1257295

User image

Elite
2733
200050010010025
Venture Industries,
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk
Xan - 2008-03-06 5:37 PM
ASA22 - 2008-03-06 5:13 PM
Renee - 2008-03-06 5:00 PM

I think the folks who keep telling Xan to lighten up need to lighten up.

And to that end...

 

You know what Renee, you're right.  Xan, I have no right to tell you how to view humor.  You of course are free to find something funny, not funny, idiotic, or high-brow.  It is clearly foolish of me to try to insert my view of humor upon you. 

 

I apologize for trying to force my views upon you, I hope this apology somehow leads at least to an ability to further productive dialogue, or at the very least allows us to seek closure regarding this matter.

 

 

I appreciate the sentiment, but really, there's no apology necessary. I didn't understand your comments as trying to force anything on me. I hope maybe you'll look back over my comments and see that I haven't been trying to force anything on anyone either. As you say, I'm simply sticking up for my right not to laugh at certain things and to feel lousy about the current state of political debate/discourse. Believe me, I understand the dejection and cynicism you've expressed. I've purposely tried to steer this away from a discussion about how Dems are better than Republicans or vice versa. Stewart and Colbert are good for highlighting the absurdity, the wastefulness, and the staggering stupidity of our process. I'm just a firm believer that we can't stop there. That we can only lose in a culture where the father/daughter joke is seen as funny or somehow poignant. Anyway, let me say to you and everyone who has been reading, the only thing I think we have to accept (in this country) is some repsonsibility for doing better than we've done over the last, say, fifty or sixty years. The trajectory this country has traveled since the end of WW2 is pitiful. And there's nothing partisan about that. I am going to have a beer right now and then watch Flight of the Conchords. I don't figure I'll be ready for a revolution afterwards, but I'll feel better for having a good laugh.

I thought you of all people would have appreciated a good apology.



2008-03-06 7:16 PM
in reply to: #1257431

User image

Expert
660
5001002525
Central New York
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk
ASA22 - 2008-03-06 6:48 PM

Xan - 2008-03-06 5:37 PM
ASA22 - 2008-03-06 5:13 PM
Renee - 2008-03-06 5:00 PM

I think the folks who keep telling Xan to lighten up need to lighten up.

And to that end...

 

You know what Renee, you're right.  Xan, I have no right to tell you how to view humor.  You of course are free to find something funny, not funny, idiotic, or high-brow.  It is clearly foolish of me to try to insert my view of humor upon you. 

 

I apologize for trying to force my views upon you, I hope this apology somehow leads at least to an ability to further productive dialogue, or at the very least allows us to seek closure regarding this matter.

 

 

I appreciate the sentiment, but really, there's no apology necessary. I didn't understand your comments as trying to force anything on me. I hope maybe you'll look back over my comments and see that I haven't been trying to force anything on anyone either. As you say, I'm simply sticking up for my right not to laugh at certain things and to feel lousy about the current state of political debate/discourse. Believe me, I understand the dejection and cynicism you've expressed. I've purposely tried to steer this away from a discussion about how Dems are better than Republicans or vice versa. Stewart and Colbert are good for highlighting the absurdity, the wastefulness, and the staggering stupidity of our process. I'm just a firm believer that we can't stop there. That we can only lose in a culture where the father/daughter joke is seen as funny or somehow poignant. Anyway, let me say to you and everyone who has been reading, the only thing I think we have to accept (in this country) is some repsonsibility for doing better than we've done over the last, say, fifty or sixty years. The trajectory this country has traveled since the end of WW2 is pitiful. And there's nothing partisan about that. I am going to have a beer right now and then watch Flight of the Conchords. I don't figure I'll be ready for a revolution afterwards, but I'll feel better for having a good laugh.

I thought you of all people would have appreciated a good apology.



I feel so...naked.
2008-03-06 7:37 PM
in reply to: #1256652

User image

Master
1915
1000500100100100100
Hamilton, Victoria
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk
Daremo - 2008-03-07 5:07 AM

[The whole system is f-cked.  It's time for another revolution .........

It's coming, don't worry. It's coming!

But it won't be the lower class rising up to rebel it will be from the middle class who are subsidising the whole game.

It will be those that are sick and tired of political correctness gone mad, those who are fed up with the 'if in doubt litigate' mentality. I predict that there will be a revolution from those that just want to earn a fair day's pay for a fair day's work and not be bombarded with cries from minority groups eternally screaming for more and expecting the middle class masses to fund their claims.

2008-03-07 11:49 AM
in reply to: #1256652

User image

Extreme Veteran
487
100100100100252525
Spokane, WA
Subject: RE: Father/Daughter Talk
Daremo - 2008-03-06 11:07 AM

Xan - 2008-03-06 10:48 AM It only barely stirs my pot. No real willingness here to examine how and by what means wealth is concentrated in the hands of a relative few.

Ever take a good close look at what everyone's elected politicians net worth is????  I'm talking about both parties, not just one ....... last I checked the common man is not getting $50k for a one hour lecture ......

The whole system is f-cked.  It's time for another revolution .........

X2

New Thread
Other Resources My Cup of Joe » Father/Daughter Talk Rss Feed  
 
 
of 2