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2008-06-03 9:23 AM

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Elite
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Subject: Motion Sensors?
For those that don't know, my house was robbed two weeks ago. Yesterday I had an ADT security system installed. This includes a motion and heat sensor inside the house. The salesperson assured me that my dog would not set it off; anything under 50 pounds supposedly won't trip the alarm. Last night I come home to my alarm going off and police in the front yard. Nothing done to my house. I figure it must have been my dog. Ugh. Anybody else experienced this?


2008-06-03 9:31 AM
in reply to: #1441084

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Subject: RE: Motion Sensors?
 A weight sensitive motion sensor? My BS sensitive meter is pegged right now....
2008-06-03 9:40 AM
in reply to: #1441084

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Subject: RE: Motion Sensors?

Could easily be a sensitivity setting. Make the vendor get it right, and until they do, make them deal with the ticked off Police.
2008-06-03 9:41 AM
in reply to: #1441117

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Motion Sensors?
mdg2003 - 2008-06-03 10:31 AM

 A weight sensitive motion sensor? My BS sensitive meter is pegged right now....


x2... It senses motion not size of object or weight. Looks like you need another option... have the sensitivity adjusted or lock your dog up in a non-sensored room.

ETA: Yeah... what chad said. (typing it at the same time.)

Edited by JChristoff 2008-06-03 9:42 AM
2008-06-03 9:47 AM
in reply to: #1441084

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Master
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Subject: RE: Motion Sensors?

Motion sensors use infrared beams that are transmitted out, bounce off walls and furniture and the sensor picks up what is bounced into it.  You DO NOT have "heat sensors" as well.  The infrared (IR) IS the same spectrum as heat.  So it's the same thing.  When the sensor detects a change in the signal strength for the IR spectrum coming into it (by something breaking a beam), it sends the signal to trigger the alarm.  Weight and size has nothing to do with it.  Anything that blocks light and moves in the room and changes the beam pattern will set off the alarm.

What needs to happen is the motion detection system needs to be recalibrated so that the IR transmission and reception is all above a certain height.  You have to allow for the dog to say, jump onto the couch.  So basically, you only have motion detection from four feet and higher.  The beams are invisible to all forms of visible light so no burglar would no about it and thereby crawl underneath them like in 'Entrapment' (although if you're going to be robbed, you could do worse than having THIS crawling along your floor in the middle of the night!Tongue out

2008-06-03 9:48 AM
in reply to: #1441084

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Subject: RE: Motion Sensors?

I went with glass break detectors and door and window sensors rather than motion sensors in areas where my two cats live and motion sensors elsewhere. The sales guy said the cats won't set them off, the installer said they would.

I think the sales guy is like mine was: ignorant of the technical reality. Get it right fast, because if your police are like ours, the first false alarm is a freebie, but after that, they start charging.



2008-06-03 9:53 AM
in reply to: #1441084

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Subject: RE: Motion Sensors?
x2 on looking at where you put sensors.  i have a few family members with pets that don't have sensors in the places where they leave the pets.  also you can look at settings.  some alarm systems have a setting where you can have it trigger on the doors/windows opening, but not on motion. 
2008-06-03 9:56 AM
in reply to: #1441084

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Subject: RE: Motion Sensors?

second that - the salesman was feeding you BS!

motion sensor senses motion - unless your dog is stuffed and next to the  fireplace, he'll set it off.

the only other option is to set the sensors at a much higher level, e.g. 5 feet, assuming your dog is under 5 feet and/or doesn't walk around on 2 legs.

in our place in Chicago, we had the same thing and never we able to use the motion detector because even though we were told our two 25 lbs dogs wouldn't set it off - movement is still movement.  Plus, we had stairs coming into the living room, which also set it off.

we were fine with window and door sensors and sadly enough - came into great use as on 3 different occasions, people tried to break in.

I'd clarify the motion sensor issue with ADT before your stuck paying for a service you can't use.  (speaking from experience)

2008-06-03 10:15 AM
in reply to: #1441177

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Subject: RE: Motion Sensors?
Bigfuzzydoug - 2008-06-03 9:47 AM

Motion sensors use infrared beams that are transmitted out, bounce off walls and furniture and the sensor picks up what is bounced into it.  You DO NOT have "heat sensors" as well.  The infrared (IR) IS the same spectrum as heat.  So it's the same thing.  When the sensor detects a change in the signal strength for the IR spectrum coming into it (by something breaking a beam), it sends the signal to trigger the alarm.  Weight and size has nothing to do with it.  Anything that blocks light and moves in the room and changes the beam pattern will set off the alarm.

What needs to happen is the motion detection system needs to be recalibrated so that the IR transmission and reception is all above a certain height.  You have to allow for the dog to say, jump onto the couch.  So basically, you only have motion detection from four feet and higher.  The beams are invisible to all forms of visible light so no burglar would no about it and thereby crawl underneath them like in 'Entrapment' (although if you're going to be robbed, you could do worse than having THIS crawling along your floor in the middle of the night!Tongue out

All I can say is that is an excellent use of highlights and shadows on that "dog."
2008-06-03 10:24 AM
in reply to: #1441084

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Motion Sensors?
Let me start by saying that I am a Police Officer and have probably answered about 500 to 1000 false burglary alarms. IMO I humbly disagree with everyone about the motion sensor. There was an adequate description of how the motion sensor works. It is based on sensitivity in regards to the size/weight setting for dogs and other animals. Small animals can set of the alarm but if it is calibrated right they should not. Baring you cat pulling something large over.

There is no fix all for alarm systems. First, your alarm company and even the Police in most cases should be able to tell you what the indication was on the alarm. ex: interior motion or back door entry (my personal fave). Every type of alarm has its disadvantages. The glass break sensors can and will be activated by a Thunderstorm. On particularly bad weather nights here in Fl we can answer around 30 false alarms on glass breakage alone, and I work in a municipality with about 30,000.00 residents.

I say you should check with the alarm company and find out what activated you alarm. If it was the motion sensor, have them come back out and get it fixed. If your PD is anything like ours you will get a few freebies a year and after that they will start fining you for false alarms.
2008-06-03 10:32 AM
in reply to: #1441301

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Subject: RE: Motion Sensors?

triguynewbie - 2008-06-03 10:24 AM Let me start by saying that I am a Police Officer and have probably answered about 500 to 1000 false burglary alarms. IMO I humbly disagree with everyone about the motion sensor. There was an adequate description of how the motion sensor works. It is based on sensitivity in regards to the size/weight setting for dogs and other animals. Small animals can set of the alarm but if it is calibrated right they should not. Baring you cat pulling something large over. There is no fix all for alarm systems. First, your alarm company and even the Police in most cases should be able to tell you what the indication was on the alarm. ex: interior motion or back door entry (my personal fave). Every type of alarm has its disadvantages. The glass break sensors can and will be activated by a Thunderstorm. On particularly bad weather nights here in Fl we can answer around 30 false alarms on glass breakage alone, and I work in a municipality with about 30,000.00 residents. I say you should check with the alarm company and find out what activated you alarm. If it was the motion sensor, have them come back out and get it fixed. If your PD is anything like ours you will get a few freebies a year and after that they will start fining you for false alarms.
Since you are an officer, let me ask you if Alarms in residences really work!!  I had a neighbors house get broken into a few years ago and my wife wanted an alarm.  I went online and looked around and it seemed like they were almost a waste of money (at least mainly during the day).  It seemed like the people who break into house know what they are doing and get in and out before anyone could respond anyways. 

The one article I read said they will basically go to the front door and knock.  If noone answers go to another entrance break in go to the master bedroom and living room, avoid the kids rooms since there is nothing valuable anyways.  If someone answers the door they ask if "Bob (or some other random person) is there" and then just leave.

The article also gave suggestions to leave valuable in Kids room or some other room the crooks won't go.

I no longer have my alarm because I just don't feel it will really do any good unless they break in at night and I can do something myself.

What are your thoughts?



2008-06-03 11:01 AM
in reply to: #1441084

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Motion Sensors?
Don't want to hijack the OP's thread but I guess this is relative to the topic. MHO on alarms are that they are beneficial. I mentioned how many false alarms I have worked over the past eight years as an officer. I can tell you that about ten more alarms that I have worked have been legitimate burglaries. Two of them were still inside and we were able to apprehend them. (both of these were silent alarms) One actually entered the house after the alarm was audible grabbed a jewelry box and fled. My dog and I tracked him for about two miles before I found the jewelry box and another mile till we found him hiding in a lake. (My dog loves burglar smothered in lake water by the way) And all the other fled as soon as the alarm sounded and never made entry. So one successful burglary out of hundreds if not thousands of alarms is a pretty good percentage in favor of the alarm. And even he wasn't successful because we were able to recover the property and apprehend him due to the short response time that the alarm provides.

I personally have an alarm that is monitored for a couple reasons. The main one is that I work nights frequently and it gives both me and my wife peace of mind. This is especially true when my wife and children are returning home to an empty house. She knows that it is empty and if the alarm has been activated while away, there is a special tone as she opens the door just in case we missed notification from our alamr company and police department. Also while in the house if the alarm is activated you know right away that something is up.

I also know that alot of other officers have alarms that they no longer pay for monitoring. As I mentioned above, the great majority of burglars flee at the first sound of the alarm. Not all but most. So an alarm without monitoring provides nearly the same benefit. Also you can tell when you open the front door from the tone that it has been activated and will prevent you from walking all the way into the house.

Sorry for the long post but I didn't just want to give you my opinion but some examples for you and others to base your own opinions. I say get one, even if you don't pay the monthly fee for monitoring.

All of the examples aply to residential alarms only. There is a far greater number of smash and grabs commercially where the risk of activating the alarm is a little lower because you can see what you are going to grab and most based on security camera footage shows them inside the business for less than thirty seconds.
2008-06-03 9:22 PM
in reply to: #1441084

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Subject: RE: Motion Sensors?
I had a monitored alarm with a motion sensor in my old house. We had a german shepherd. Our home security company, Brinks, set the motion sensor about 4 feet off the ground and had it facing up. It only caught movement that was chest-level or higher. My dog never set it off. But if we accidentally turned it on and I walked through the house it would go off.
2008-06-03 10:26 PM
in reply to: #1441117

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Motion Sensors?

mdg2003 - 2008-06-03 10:31 AM  A weight sensitive motion sensor? My BS sensitive meter is pegged right now....

No.  The motion sensor can measure weight approximately.  The sensor is an infrared sensor that detects the heat given off by a body.  The size of the signal is a rough measure of weight.  Contrary to what another poster said, the sensors do not send out a beam and look for a reflection.  They sense the heat from the object itself.  To detect motion, the sensitive region of the cell is divided into cells  (think of a digital camera with the image frame divided into small regions).  The "motion" detection is really two adjacent cells being activated in sequence.

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