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Swimming Everyday, Overkill?
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 2008-06-13 9:09 PM |
Member 23 |  Subject: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? I am just getting into triathlons, hoping to do two sprints this august, and I had a question about swim workouts. I just joined a gym and I am planning on swimming about about 25 minutes Monday - Friday at lunch. I have a good swimming back ground so I can do about 1000 meters in this amount of time out of shape. Swimming every workday, could this be too much. I am planning on using M,W,F for distance swimming and T.R for speed training. I really like swimming so I don't think this is too much, especially since swimming is not a high impact sport like running, but I am looking for other opinions. |
| 2008-06-13 9:17 PM in reply to: #1466217 |
Expert 834    Medina, MN | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? Swimming is the shortest part of any triathlon, so the benefit you gain from getting faster there is doesn't make anywhere near the difference as it would to improve at running or biking. So, spending all that time swimming every probably isn't the best if your goal is to go as fast as possible. However, on the positive side, it can help you get into aerobic shape, and is relatively easier to do injury-free if you use proper form. I'm not sure what your running conditioning/ability is, but I would be inclined to say that swimming 2-3 days a week is plenty, and if you spend the other days on a treadmill or outside running or some combination of running and walking that it would be better for your races. -Matt |
| 2008-06-13 9:32 PM in reply to: #1466217 |
| Member 23 | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? I definitely am using the swim for more of a aerobic workout. Since this is at lunch time I usually run, or some other form of exercise, after I get off work. |
| 2008-06-13 9:38 PM in reply to: #1466217 |
Master 1790 Tyler, TX | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? 5000 meters a week for a decent swimmer really isn't overkill at all. The important thing to remember is that you need to dedicate even more time to biking and running as that is what will bring your overall time down the fastest! Brian |
| 2008-06-13 9:42 PM in reply to: #1466217 |
Master 1325 Lake Oswego, OR | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? I'm a good swimmer and enjoy it. I could swim everyday and will be doing so as I prepare for an open water race. However, I cut back in my Tri training because I can cut so much more time off my finishing time by training for the run. I also use biking for low impact high intensity aerobic training. |
| 2008-06-13 9:54 PM in reply to: #1466259 |
Bob 2194 Binghamton, NY | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? I think as a swimmer the lunchtime swims are a great idea. I recall the Hilary Biscay, pro triathlete, chat where she said she needs 4 days a week just to maintain her swimming. Most triathletes do not spend enough time in the pool IMO. |
| 2008-06-13 10:07 PM in reply to: #1466271 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? i agree totally with this. while it is the shortest part of any race, it is also the most neglected. while total training load is up to you, and should be personal bases on experince, training time, fitness and age, here is what i am shooting for right now. I am trying to get in the pool/open water 5 days a week, two swims in the 1000-1600yrd range, two bigger workouts in the 3500-4500 range, and one open water swim. i am not a great swimming (mid 23min 1500 range), so i am giving up some time to the faster swimmers out there and need to make up for that this season, so i've started swimming more in addition to my other training. once my knee gets back into decent shape that will be in addition to 4-5 days running (around 35 mpw) and another 8-12 hours riding. in my opinion swimming is a great way to boost total workout time for the week without much of the injury risk. and dont let someone tell you that you can swim less because its a short race. many many sprints are decided in the first half of the swim. good luck! |
| 2008-06-14 3:16 AM in reply to: #1466217 |
Extreme Veteran 446 Auckland, New Zealand | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? I think this article that was written by Mark Allen says it all. http://www.triathletemag.com/Departments/Training/2007/Fixing_your_weakest_link.htm Yes, swimming is the shortest disipline in a tri: however, if you have to struggle through the swim, then you have less strength for the bike and then the run. BTW: I swam 4x this week (12.4km) and aim to get up to 5x a week. Just to add, I do 4-5x bike sessions a week, but only 3x runs at the moment. Edited by ForrestGump 2008-06-14 3:24 AM |
| 2008-06-14 4:01 AM in reply to: #1466217 |
Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? Another benefit of using lunch time to swim (as opposed to bike or run) is that nearly the whole time can be used for the activity. Unlike running or biking, you won't need to clean up, if you don't mind the chlorine smell for the rest of the day. Since you are planning to use it for aerobic base, I would say to go for it, as long as you still get in some decent running and biking time. |
| 2008-06-14 7:05 AM in reply to: #1466271 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? rstocks3 - 2008-06-13 9:54 PM I think as a swimmer the lunchtime swims are a great idea. I recall the Hilary Biscay, pro triathlete, chat where she said she needs 4 days a week just to maintain her swimming. Most triathletes do not spend enough time in the pool IMO. exactly.OP - that is good, if anything 5K a week is on the low side. |
| 2008-06-14 7:28 AM in reply to: #1466217 |
Expert 784 Computerland | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? I definately do not think it is overkill. It will help your swimming a lot! I am on a year-round swim team and normally swim about 5 days a week also. I just started year-round swimming last August and I am SO much stronger in the pool than I was last year! Your lunchtime swim workouts would be the same idea: The more you do something, the better you get at it. Swimming is no exception! Good luck in your training  |
| 2008-06-14 11:45 AM in reply to: #1466397 |
Master 1325 Lake Oswego, OR | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? ForrestGump - 2008-06-14 3:16 AM I think this article that was written by Mark Allen says it all. http://www.triathletemag.com/Departments/Training/2007/Fixing_your_weakest_link.htm +1 I just finished Alcatraz and came out of the water energized, finished the bike feeling strong and relaxed. I think that is what he is talking about (if you are a swimmer). OK so I suffered through the run. OUCH. I guess it depends on what your strengths and weaknesses are, as well as how much time you have to train. Edited by E=H2O 2008-06-14 11:51 AM |
| 2008-06-14 9:32 PM in reply to: #1466217 |
Master 2202 St. Louis | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? I also just finished alcatraz, took me 41 minutes...I came out of the water pretty spent, but that was because you have to HAMMER the last 200-300yds so you dont get swept downstream. Basically, I came out of the water about 1200th, and finished 400th... so I had to pass 800 people during the bike and run. I would have finished faster if the bike and run were less crowded and I could have more easily gotten around people. Being a "slower" swimmer is somewhat annoying. Anyway.. Honestly, swimming for me I am realizing is a waste of time. When I swim 5 days a week, 10,000yds, I can get my 1500yd time (in a pool) down to about 26 minutes, consistently. When I swim 2x a week I can finish the 1500yds in like 28 minutes, consistently. However.. since I am swimming less, that means I am running and biking more. The gains from the run and bike far outweigh the 2 minute loss from all the time in the pool. Sure, I would love to cut 5 more minutes off my swim, but that might take 15000yds a week to do. If I spend that time running, I can more easily cut over 5 mins off my bike and run. I think this was well evidenced by my alcatraz results. Thats my .02, your results may vary. |
| 2008-06-14 9:50 PM in reply to: #1467044 |
Master 1325 Lake Oswego, OR | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? ranger5oh, I was one of those 800 you passed. I don't know how you did it considering the crowds on the bike and the narrow stairs and trails on parts of the run. I hope I wasn't one of those people who got in your way. I came in just south of 1100 and 950 people had to pass me, so I made a strong effort to keep to one side (except going downhill on the bike, I was passing people). Edited by E=H2O 2008-06-14 10:04 PM |
| 2008-06-14 10:29 PM in reply to: #1466217 |
Expert 1022 | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? Just don't neglect the rest of your workouts. My daughter, who pretty much only trains for swimming (10-15 hours/week) will place in the top 1% of the racers for the swim portion. But, even in an Olympic race, that only gives her a 3-4 minute advantage over the good swimmers, who have had a more balanced training schedule. She's doing the triathlons for fun, and that's fine, but if she gets serious about them, she'll need to cut back on the swimming. |
| 2008-06-15 2:49 AM in reply to: #1466554 |
Extreme Veteran 446 Auckland, New Zealand | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? E=H2O - 2008-06-15 4:45 AM ForrestGump - 2008-06-14 3:16 AM I think this article that was written by Mark Allen says it all. http://www.triathletemag.com/Departments/Training/2007/Fixing_your_weakest_link.htm +1 I just finished Alcatraz and came out of the water energized, finished the bike feeling strong and relaxed. I think that is what he is talking about (if you are a swimmer). OK so I suffered through the run. OUCH. I guess it depends on what your strengths and weaknesses are, as well as how much time you have to train. I agree, how much time we have to train is a BIG factor. |
| 2008-06-15 8:16 AM in reply to: #1466217 |
Elite 4235 Spring, TX | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? Last year I swam 3-4 times a week, and for someone who is a weak swimmer, it wasn't enough. I know when I get back to the states where I have access to a pool, I hope to be swimming 6 times a week. Swimming is non impact and is great for overall fitness. Unfortunately, it's so dependant on good technique, that even if you gain swim fitness by swimming crazy amounts, poor form will still make you a BOP swimmer. |
| 2008-06-15 8:44 AM in reply to: #1467044 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? ranger5oh - 2008-06-14 9:32 PM I also just finished alcatraz, took me 41 minutes...I came out of the water pretty spent, but that was because you have to HAMMER the last 200-300yds so you dont get swept downstream. Basically, I came out of the water about 1200th, and finished 400th... so I had to pass 800 people during the bike and run. I would have finished faster if the bike and run were less crowded and I could have more easily gotten around people. Being a "slower" swimmer is somewhat annoying. Anyway.. Honestly, swimming for me I am realizing is a waste of time. When I swim 5 days a week, 10,000yds, I can get my 1500yd time (in a pool) down to about 26 minutes, consistently. When I swim 2x a week I can finish the 1500yds in like 28 minutes, consistently. However.. since I am swimming less, that means I am running and biking more. The gains from the run and bike far outweigh the 2 minute loss from all the time in the pool. Sure, I would love to cut 5 more minutes off my swim, but that might take 15000yds a week to do. If I spend that time running, I can more easily cut over 5 mins off my bike and run. I think this was well evidenced by my alcatraz results. Thats my .02, your results may vary. Unfortunately you think like most of the triathletes out there and you miss the point as to why swim training is important, why it can make you a better triathlete (after all tri = 3 sports) and swim speed is not necessarily the main reason. Your result while impressive still makes the point that you might be good at 2 ports but those who are complete overall athletes on all three sports will always end up ahead of you; like those 450+ at Alcatraz and that’s the difference between FOP/MOP/BOP. (btw I only bringing up your result since you mentioned it on your postAnyway, the point is that swim training might make you a bit faster in the water BUT it will definitely make you faster on the bike and run and if you spent some time working on that (it takes more than 10K per week) you might have passed the same amount of people but you would have started far ahead than 1200th out of the water and not so spent. |
| 2008-06-15 10:23 PM in reply to: #1466217 |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? I agree with amiine. Also I don't think you can swim too much honestly. When I was on a year round club team in high school we would regularly swim 6 days a week almost 40k yards a week. After that Sunday off I would always feel weird at the beginning of practice on Monday just from 1 day off and heaven forbid it was a holiday or a break and I got more than a day off I felt like a rock as soon as I got back in the pool. As long as your keeping good form you can't swim too much. |
| 2008-06-15 11:06 PM in reply to: #1467307 |
Master 1651 Breckenridge, CO | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? (it takes more than 10K per week) I guess I'll never be a good swimmer nor will I improve because there's no way I'll ever be swimming 10k per week. Most importantly, training should be fun. |
| 2008-06-16 7:29 AM in reply to: #1468187 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? breckview - 2008-06-15 11:06 PM I guess so, plus what makes you think swimming (or bike or run) a lot is not fun for many? For many pushing the limit of their fitness and getting good results IS fun. Keep in mind there is are many types of fun and we all have different goals; yours can be fun for you and that's all that matters no? (it takes more than 10K per week) I guess I'll never be a good swimmer nor will I improve because there's no way I'll ever be swimming 10k per week. Most importantly, training should be fun. |
| 2008-06-16 8:24 AM in reply to: #1468364 |
Master 1651 Breckenridge, CO | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? amiine - 2008-06-16 6:29 AM Keep in mind there is are many types of fun and we all have different goals; yours can be fun for you and that's all that matters no? Yea, I was talking about me. Swimming is OK (for me) but doesn't quite compare with being outside (above water) for me. |
| 2008-06-16 10:22 AM in reply to: #1467307 |
Master 1790 Tyler, TX | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? amiine - 2008-06-15 8:44 AM Anyway, the point is that swim training might make you a bit faster in the water BUT it will definitely make you faster on the bike and run and if you spent some time working on that (it takes more than 10K per week) you might have passed the same amount of people but you would have started far ahead than 1200th out of the water and not so spent. I'm in agreement with your post, except that I've seen a few guys become good swimmers by triathon standards by swimming less than 10k per week. But they were swimming 3 hours a week (about 7500m) on a Masters team, all year round, and consistantly over a number of years. I think a lot of triathletes who are good runners and cyclists don't get better at swimming simply because they don't put the very basic time it requires, consistantly, over a number of years, like they do with running and cycling. Brian |
| 2008-06-16 1:02 PM in reply to: #1467307 |
Master 2202 St. Louis | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? amiine - 2008-06-15 8:44 AM ranger5oh - 2008-06-14 9:32 PM I also just finished alcatraz, took me 41 minutes...I came out of the water pretty spent, but that was because you have to HAMMER the last 200-300yds so you dont get swept downstream. Basically, I came out of the water about 1200th, and finished 400th... so I had to pass 800 people during the bike and run. I would have finished faster if the bike and run were less crowded and I could have more easily gotten around people. Being a "slower" swimmer is somewhat annoying. Anyway.. Honestly, swimming for me I am realizing is a waste of time. When I swim 5 days a week, 10,000yds, I can get my 1500yd time (in a pool) down to about 26 minutes, consistently. When I swim 2x a week I can finish the 1500yds in like 28 minutes, consistently. However.. since I am swimming less, that means I am running and biking more. The gains from the run and bike far outweigh the 2 minute loss from all the time in the pool. Sure, I would love to cut 5 more minutes off my swim, but that might take 15000yds a week to do. If I spend that time running, I can more easily cut over 5 mins off my bike and run. I think this was well evidenced by my alcatraz results. Thats my .02, your results may vary. Unfortunately you think like most of the triathletes out there and you miss the point as to why swim training is important, why it can make you a better triathlete (after all tri = 3 sports) and swim speed is not necessarily the main reason. Your result while impressive still makes the point that you might be good at 2 ports but those who are complete overall athletes on all three sports will always end up ahead of you; like those 450+ at Alcatraz and that’s the difference between FOP/MOP/BOP. (btw I only bringing up your result since you mentioned it on your postAnyway, the point is that swim training might make you a bit faster in the water BUT it will definitely make you faster on the bike and run and if you spent some time working on that (it takes more than 10K per week) you might have passed the same amount of people but you would have started far ahead than 1200th out of the water and not so spent. Right... I agree that if I came out closer to the FOP from the swim I could have finished possibly better..BUT not necessarily. Look how many strong swimmers I passed. On a course with more space to pass, I would definitely have finished further toward the front. Remember too, alcatraz is a longer swim, so it has more impact (as compared to a regular Oly). The main problem, for me, with your thinking is that I have all the time i need to train, and my bike and run wouldnt get sacrificed for swimming. If I could simply add 10000 more yds per week and not change my bike and run, sure.. Id be faster overall. However, if I have to cut 3-4 hours of run and bike time, to get some additional swim time in...no way will I finish as strongly. Ive tried the swimming thing, and swam a lot... my swim time got better.. by like 2 minutes. Overall, its just not worth it to ME. Maybe it would have benefitted me more in Alcatraz, but thats not a typical triathlon. |
| 2008-06-16 1:03 PM in reply to: #1466217 |
Pro 5761 Bartlett, TN | Subject: RE: Swimming Everyday, Overkill? I swim 5 days a week and the distances vary by race. I know that I am alot more confident about racing due to the amount of swimming I do. I can't say that I am increasing my speeds by leaps and bounds, I know that I can finish the swim in a decent time. I also know from past experience, that if I come out of the water deflated and already feel like I am beat, that mindset also effects my bike/run. So for me, I do not think I could overswim, plus it helps that I can get up and start my day swimming, and save the evening time for running/biking. |
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