General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Preventing Knee Injury Rss Feed  
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2008-07-11 1:20 AM

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Subject: Preventing Knee Injury

Is there any particular strength training exercise/s recommended for preventing knee injuries in triathletes?

This is assuming you currently have no injuries, but that you're going to put your knees through a lot of repetitive stress.

Thanks-  



2008-07-11 7:44 AM
in reply to: #1522057

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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury
I do lunges and squats and one legged squats once a week.  Seems to work ok so far Thank God.
2008-07-14 10:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury
One of the leading causes of knee problems is a strength imbalance between the quads and the hamstrings meaning the quads are too strong for the hamstrings causing instability in the knee joint. Big issue for skiers. Cyclists don't have it any better. So, work your hamstrings.
2008-07-15 2:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury
Skywashed - 2008-07-11 2:20 AM

Is there any particular strength training exercise/s recommended for preventing knee injuries in triathletes?

This is assuming you currently have no injuries, but that you're going to put your knees through a lot of repetitive stress.

Thanks-  

If you have no injuries and no known imbalances, then there is no 'prescription' to follow in order to avoid knee injuries for running and cycling.  You can 'rehab', but in order to 'prehab' you'd have to know what imbalance you should be addressing.  The best advice is just to build your mileage and intensity (your training load) gradually to allow your body to adapt to the stresses.

2008-07-16 5:28 PM
in reply to: #1522057

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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury

Yes, JK, without testing there is no way to know of imbalances. Here's the thing, if someone cycles a lot, I'd bet money that they have a quad-hamstring imbalance. This goes beyond improving tri performance and overall health. Also, several hamstring exercises, such as deadlifts and Romanian deadlifts, work the lower back. Can you name anyone who would not benefit from a stronger lower back? Even if I had solid evidence that doing deadlifts and Romanian deadlifts negatively impacted my tri performance I would still do them. I consider them to be that important.

http://weighttraining.about.com/od/physicaltherapy/a/hamstring.htm

2008-07-16 6:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury
MikeTheBear - 2008-07-16 6:28 PM

Yes, JK, without testing there is no way to know of imbalances. Here's the thing, if someone cycles a lot, I'd bet money that they have a quad-hamstring imbalance. This goes beyond improving tri performance and overall health. Also, several hamstring exercises, such as deadlifts and Romanian deadlifts, work the lower back. Can you name anyone who would not benefit from a stronger lower back? Even if I had solid evidence that doing deadlifts and Romanian deadlifts negatively impacted my tri performance I would still do them. I consider them to be that important.

http://weighttraining.about.com/od/physicaltherapy/a/hamstring.htm

As a triathlete, I assume they run too.  So I would question your gross assumption.

Your other argument is nice and all, but has nothing to do with protecting from knee injuries.  And that article just says that nobody knows what causes hamstrings injuries.  So how do you prevent it?



2008-07-17 10:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury

thanks for all your feedback on this topic. 

It sounds like the best route for a beginner with no prior issues would be a balanced strength routine that targets all the major muscle groups, including quads, hams, back, etc.

But how would you know if your routine is balanced? What if you are working one muscle group more than the other and it gradually becomes more strong and creates an imbalance? Is that when minor issues will come up and then you just adjust strength training around minor injuries?

Thanks

2008-07-18 8:32 AM
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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury
Skywashed - 2008-07-17 11:34 PM

thanks for all your feedback on this topic. 

It sounds like the best route for a beginner with no prior issues would be a balanced strength routine that targets all the major muscle groups, including quads, hams, back, etc.

But how would you know if your routine is balanced? What if you are working one muscle group more than the other and it gradually becomes more strong and creates an imbalance? Is that when minor issues will come up and then you just adjust strength training around minor injuries?

Thanks

Yeah, if you want to lift then setting up some kind of balanced routine is probably best.  Mike or others here are better at answering exactly what that might look like for you. 

As far as creating imbalances, that's always possible.  But the best thing to do would be to approach weight training the same way as swimming, biking and running, i.e., build gradually.  If you gradually build the training stress and get good recovery, your body will tend to adapt pretty well--it's a pretty amazing machine. 

No assurances that you won't get some injuries or aches and pains along the way.  But if you're methodical about your training, it will lower the odds of that happening.  And if you do get injured, address it quickly so it doesn't become chronic.

2008-08-29 1:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury
Reverse curls for your legs are really good for women. We are designed, unfortunately, to have knee problems- more so than men. To strenthen the ligiments that run down the sides of your knees you do need to have stronger hamstrings. The weight machine at the gym that you lay down on your stomach, put ankles under the pads and bring the heels up to your butt is a great one- reverse leg curls. Don't try to do too heavy weight. I do 50 pounds, 15 reps, 4 sets.
2008-08-30 7:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury
I was told I need to work on strengthening the VMO (inner quad) as well.  That there was an imbalance between the outer quad and inner.
2008-08-31 1:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury
My PT recommended leg presses, leg curls/extensions, leg abductors and leg adductors. She stressed the last two as being normally forgotten, but important to help stabilize the knee.

Edited by jasonkoss 2008-08-31 1:12 PM


2008-09-27 11:16 PM
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2008-10-24 8:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury

I would also try to include some balance training.  Try to do squats on balance boards or one legged squats.  Balance training helps make sure that one leg isn't overcompensating for the other.  I just had an ACL repair and we probably spent 25% of rehab time on balance training alone.  It's also great for the core.

Another good balance training excersize is lunges or squats on those pillow things .  Talk about vamping up your workout.  That's some pretty tough stuff!

Balance training really works on the muscles that stabilize the knee.

2008-10-31 10:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury

gopennstate - 2008-08-30 5:32 PM I was told I need to work on strengthening the VMO (inner quad) as well.  That there was an imbalance between the outer quad and inner.

 

A VMO problem isn't really an "imbalance" of the vastus lateralis (VL) and vastus medialis (VM) muscles.  Even though the VMO may or maynot be part of the VM (depending on who you ask), the VMO and VL have more of a relationship.  The VMO pulls the patella towards the midline, one of the VLs jobs is pulling the patella the opposite direction. The VMO acts on the patella so strengthening it specifically is really only necessary if you have patellar dislocation or tracking problems (patellofemoral pain syndrome).  Otherwise, it will build somewhat with things that build the quads but also with activities that affect adductors/abductors.  In other words, unless you have patellofemoral pain it makes more sense to just build up your whole leg, rather than isolating something.  If you are having a real problem, go see an orthopedist or physcial therapist in your area.

2008-11-01 11:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury
I have never had any knees problems with cycling or swimming but running is a different story.  Every day this year before practice i took 2 ibuprofen(?) and it helped a lot.  Not recommending that but i'm sure it is because I am such a heel striker - have ground my shoes down past all the rubber and into the foam.  It might be the same case for you too.  I know it not because i weigh to much either (116 lbs).  Might try a different running form.
2008-11-16 4:55 AM
in reply to: #1522057

Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury

At the gym we don't have a machine that does the excerise you discribe. So is there another machine I could try instead?

I know you do not know you have an imbalance in your legs but I know for me my rt leg is the one that is giving me most of my problems when it comes to running. I have been going to the gym and working this leg the most. When will I see a diffrence? I have been at this for 4 months now. I can tell when I lift that my lt leg is taking most of the weight. How can you make everything balance?

I had the tracking problem and was told to tape my knee and boy did that help big time. Now I want to focus all I can on stopping this from happening all together. I also have ITB problems with the same rt leg. Which if I stretch and foam roll it is fine.

I do anything to fix this!!!



2008-11-17 1:12 PM
in reply to: #1810790

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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury
ziggyrottie - 2008-11-16 5:55 AM

At the gym we don't have a machine that does the excerise you discribe. So is there another machine I could try instead?

I know you do not know you have an imbalance in your legs but I know for me my rt leg is the one that is giving me most of my problems when it comes to running. I have been going to the gym and working this leg the most. When will I see a diffrence? I have been at this for 4 months now. I can tell when I lift that my lt leg is taking most of the weight. How can you make everything balance?

I had the tracking problem and was told to tape my knee and boy did that help big time. Now I want to focus all I can on stopping this from happening all together. I also have ITB problems with the same rt leg. Which if I stretch and foam roll it is fine.

I do anything to fix this!!!

What machine are you talking about that your gym doesn't have? 

Squats and lunges are a full leg exercise, no machine required.  Specifically for hamstrings, I'd recommend deadlifts.  You can look them up but they only require some dumbbells.  There are many variations of deadlifts.  I will sometimes do one legged deadlifts which work balance as well as the muscles.

 

2008-11-17 5:55 PM
in reply to: #1812655

Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury
linanil - 2008-11-17 2:12 PM
ziggyrottie - 2008-11-16 5:55 AM

At the gym we don't have a machine that does the excerise you discribe. So is there another machine I could try instead?

I know you do not know you have an imbalance in your legs but I know for me my rt leg is the one that is giving me most of my problems when it comes to running. I have been going to the gym and working this leg the most. When will I see a diffrence? I have been at this for 4 months now. I can tell when I lift that my lt leg is taking most of the weight. How can you make everything balance?

I had the tracking problem and was told to tape my knee and boy did that help big time. Now I want to focus all I can on stopping this from happening all together. I also have ITB problems with the same rt leg. Which if I stretch and foam roll it is fine.

I do anything to fix this!!!

What machine are you talking about that your gym doesn't have? 

Squats and lunges are a full leg exercise, no machine required.  Specifically for hamstrings, I'd recommend deadlifts.  You can look them up but they only require some dumbbells.  There are many variations of deadlifts.  I will sometimes do one legged deadlifts which work balance as well as the muscles.

 

Someone is talking about a machine that you lay on your stomach and lift with your legs. We don't have that machine. I will look up the ones you mention and THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!!OK I looked them up we don't have dumbbells that are seprate from the machine. It is on a sliding bar that goes up and down you have to turn the bar to unlock. Will this work?



Edited by ziggyrottie 2008-11-17 6:00 PM
2008-11-17 6:32 PM
in reply to: #1813264

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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury
ziggyrottie - 2008-11-17 6:55 PM
linanil - 2008-11-17 2:12 PM
ziggyrottie - 2008-11-16 5:55 AM

At the gym we don't have a machine that does the excerise you discribe. So is there another machine I could try instead?

I know you do not know you have an imbalance in your legs but I know for me my rt leg is the one that is giving me most of my problems when it comes to running. I have been going to the gym and working this leg the most. When will I see a diffrence? I have been at this for 4 months now. I can tell when I lift that my lt leg is taking most of the weight. How can you make everything balance?

I had the tracking problem and was told to tape my knee and boy did that help big time. Now I want to focus all I can on stopping this from happening all together. I also have ITB problems with the same rt leg. Which if I stretch and foam roll it is fine.

I do anything to fix this!!!

What machine are you talking about that your gym doesn't have? 

Squats and lunges are a full leg exercise, no machine required.  Specifically for hamstrings, I'd recommend deadlifts.  You can look them up but they only require some dumbbells.  There are many variations of deadlifts.  I will sometimes do one legged deadlifts which work balance as well as the muscles.

 

Someone is talking about a machine that you lay on your stomach and lift with your legs. We don't have that machine. I will look up the ones you mention and THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!!OK I looked them up we don't have dumbbells that are seprate from the machine. It is on a sliding bar that goes up and down you have to turn the bar to unlock. Will this work?

This is a stupid question but what kind of gym doesn't have dumbbells?  Do they have barbells?  Do they have weight plates?  I'm guessing no.

The smith machine will work for squats, lunges and possibly deadlifts if the bar goes all the way to the ground.  The only problem with smith machines is they limit your range of motion and don't help you strengthen your core  like free weights would.  

2008-11-17 6:57 PM
in reply to: #1813329

Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury
linanil - 2008-11-17 7:32 PM
ziggyrottie - 2008-11-17 6:55 PM
linanil - 2008-11-17 2:12 PM
ziggyrottie - 2008-11-16 5:55 AM

At the gym we don't have a machine that does the excerise you discribe. So is there another machine I could try instead?

I know you do not know you have an imbalance in your legs but I know for me my rt leg is the one that is giving me most of my problems when it comes to running. I have been going to the gym and working this leg the most. When will I see a diffrence? I have been at this for 4 months now. I can tell when I lift that my lt leg is taking most of the weight. How can you make everything balance?

I had the tracking problem and was told to tape my knee and boy did that help big time. Now I want to focus all I can on stopping this from happening all together. I also have ITB problems with the same rt leg. Which if I stretch and foam roll it is fine.

I do anything to fix this!!!

What machine are you talking about that your gym doesn't have? 

Squats and lunges are a full leg exercise, no machine required.  Specifically for hamstrings, I'd recommend deadlifts.  You can look them up but they only require some dumbbells.  There are many variations of deadlifts.  I will sometimes do one legged deadlifts which work balance as well as the muscles.

 

Someone is talking about a machine that you lay on your stomach and lift with your legs. We don't have that machine. I will look up the ones you mention and THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!!OK I looked them up we don't have dumbbells that are seprate from the machine. It is on a sliding bar that goes up and down you have to turn the bar to unlock. Will this work?

This is a stupid question but what kind of gym doesn't have dumbbells?  Do they have barbells?  Do they have weight plates?  I'm guessing no.

The smith machine will work for squats, lunges and possibly deadlifts if the bar goes all the way to the ground.  The only problem with smith machines is they limit your range of motion and don't help you strengthen your core  like free weights would.  

Ok I have a cheap gym. The machine goes to the ground but I guess it won't work. I will be there tomorrow and see what I can do that will do the same thing. I will let you know.

2008-11-18 2:33 PM
in reply to: #1522057

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Subject: RE: Preventing Knee Injury

Super, super easy exercise and no equipment required: Sit in a chair with your feet flat on the ground. Lift your left leg so it is parallel to the ground. Flex your left foot and cock it so your knee is pointing toward the left and the inside of your thigh is facing up. From that position, do 30 small leg raises. Put the left foot down, and repeat with the right leg. Do 30 reps on each side, 3 times. Do it every day (or nearly every day). This will help prevent patella femoral syndrome (something women struggle with due to wider pelvis) and probably patellar tendonditis (usually from overuse) by strengthening that inner thigh muscle that gets so little work in running and cycling.

I also recommend doing an "air bench." Position yourself against a wall as if you are sitting in a chair. That is, your back is supported by the wall and you are in a sit position. Hold it for 1-2, or more, minutes. This helps stabilize the muscles around the knee itself.

There really are all kinds of variations you can do, but these, I think are the easiest and can be done in the comfort of your own home.  



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