police officer shoves cyclist in New York (Page 2)

Shamgar,

It's your points that I was attempting to convey...it is too hard to tell if it was brutality or not.  We may never learn the actual facts in this case so it may not be worth debating....As you said he may have done numerous things out of frame that totally justified his getting clocked....

BUT WE DON'T KNOW.

Off topic but interesting....My dad is a retired cop.  Once on a welfare call (checking on the welfare of an indvidual not heard from in a while) he and another officer go to a man's house.  Ring the door bell and indentify themselves as cops.  The man opens the door and kicks my dad right in the seeds....He did respond with ANY retaliation as his partner helped him away...I think they simply let the man go....

But how many people in general would have not reacted positively to that?  Perhaps pushing the indvidual or worse? Now imagine that someone is taping this but only catches the tail end.

The man was 70 years old no crimnal history.

My point is not everyone is nice like Shamgar pointed out....I'm sure he could share stories of the evil acts he's seen people commit that would keep you awake at night.

Cops have a thankless job and as soon as one makes an error we are all too quick to judge...heck he didn't shoot the guy...the cyclist will live...infact I didn't even read that he was in the hospital.

Sorry I just can't let this one go....

I, too, am in Law Enforcement.  With the exception of NFL quarterbacks, I can think of few other professions that are subject to the 'second-guessing' that police officers must endure.  I still have faith in the good intentions and judment of my fellow law enforcement officers.  Are there some bad apples-you bet!  But, like any profession, the rotten ones eventually get rooted out.  

btw:  Legally speaking, a law enforcement officer's use of force is based upon the 'totality of circumstances' and will NOT be judged using the cool rational of 20/20 hindsight.

We don't have to guess at what he did.  The complaint stated that he was arrested for obstructing traffic.  Believe me, if this biker did anything else, it would have been in the complaint. 

so I ask you, is obstructing traffic reason for police brutality?

So the cop sees this one biker out of 100s and thought that he alone was obstructing traffic.  Then you would have me believe that, even though this cop saw this biker up the road a ways "obstructing traffic" he needed to cross check into the curb without any verbal or physical warnings/commands to stop.  Must have been one bad arse obstructing traffic dude.  Heck, don't you guys even tell murders and bank robbers to halt before shooting? 

You state that we dont know they whole story.  what is the rest of the story that you need to know?  Clearly the biker did nothing except for "obstructing traffic".  he wasn't ordered to stop up the line as another poster suggested.  If he had been, that would have been in the report.  And I'm sure another charge would have been added like fail to obey. 

An obstruction of traffic charge will not ruin your life.  Plus I say tee off....where there is smoke there is probably fire....lmao....He most likely violated many laws leading up to this and it was karma that he got checked.

He's not hurt and he won't go to jail.

Slugger - 2008-07-30 1:24 AM I could easily see how (hypothetically) the cops further up on the route may very well have been trying to stop this guy for a couple miles. As he was moving pretty fast and the cops were on foot, they called down the line. The first couple in line used all the non-aggressive, non-violent tactics they could. Finally, they needed this guy stopped NOW. How do we know this guy didn't assault a pedestrian or two earlier in his ride? Conveniently left out of the story? In my hypothetical situation, you have a cop on foot who has been ordered to stop that cyclist NOW, how do you propose he do it withOUT body-checking the guy? That is an honest question - I am definitely opposed to using force, but if all non-forceful means have failed, what do they have left? If the cop grabbed his handlebar, he's going down just as hard. None of that justifies what appears to be false statements in the report. I would guess that was either a case of how much perception can alter someone's honest view of a situation (happens to everyone, don't deny it), or a scared, young cop trying to justify what might have been perfectly justifiable actions. Or, he may have been totally in the wrong and trying to make it look good. Sorry, Rheya - three paragraphs!

Do you really think that wouldn't not have been mentioned IMMEDIATELY by the bully with a badge had that been the case?  You don't think the cop, his union, and the NYPD in general would have immediately commented on the case?   Instead, we get a complete falsification of the story and BS charges for the cyclist.  I just think it's a good thing the cop didn't know a guy was filming, otherwise there would have been a major beat down of the guy with the camera.

My 3 cents:

First, I'm a cop, a triathlete, and a BIKE COP too.

Second:  This is a lesson that is learned quickly as a cop.  There are ALWAYS. AT LEAST,  two sides to the story, and most of the time, neither of them are 100% accurate when told by the involved parties, because they have something to gain or loose.  However, you MUST hear both sides of the story to paint the MOST accurate picture of what has really happened.

What I would do.  Listen to the cops story. Listen to the cyclists story. Listen to the witnesses stories.  Watch the video(s).  Then I would piece all of this together.  THAT is the only way to discover the closest thing to the TRUTH that we can.

Is a officer ever justified in slamming someone (cyclist included) to the ground? You bet.  Could he be totally wrong in what he did?  Absolutely.   Could this cyclist possibly deserve this?  Well, that's always debatable.  I can't tell you HOW many times I've heard people tell me they wish they could be a cop, just for a few minutes, so they could TASE someone, or whack someone, or drive 100mph or whatever, all of which is usually not legal for me to do unless it is justified. 

My conclusion is this.  Just wait a little longer to get more facts. The cop may be 100% wrong, or perhaps in the end, not.  If I were working on a case for you, wouldn't you want me to take a little time and be thorough as possible?

Now, I have a 100 miler on Saturday....any takers?!? 

But we did hear the cops story.  He said the biker tried to assault him, and was proven to be a liar.  What more do you need?  Time so that he can revise his lies in order to fit the video?  The only reason this jerk is not behind bars and charged with aggravated assault is because of his badge.

Too many angry people. I'm a cyclist who happens to be a cop. Just to play devils advocate, that cyclist threw a water bottle at another cop a few blocks before, hitting him in the face breaking his nose and then riding off. He's not justified to stop that guy who just assaulted the officer? Critical Mass isn't a peaceful group. I've seen news story after news story of them smashing cars etc. I'm not saying the cop was wrong or right but it seems everyone likes to bash the cop because of a few seconds of video when only the cop and the cyclist know the real story. The cycling community is a great group of people. And believe it or not, so are most cops. Be safe out there. 

I'm not a cop and I back the officer.  This group's activties don't sound peaceful or even lawful and their intent, it would seem, is to stir up trouble.

Perhaps he was wrong, perhaps not.  Either way it's best to avoid situations and groups that are going to get it trouble with the police.  It sounds like this group has a history of problems with the police.

I'm think I'm done with this topic now...ahh....

Will you people stop playing the guessing/what if game?!?  We saw the video. we read the cops "report" . Play devils advocate all you want but nothing in the report, which was pretty much a lie to try to cover the cops butt, and no doubt done before he knew of the video, states that the biker did anything but "obstruct traffic".

 Now I'll give the cop that one, maybe.  Of course there were 100s of bikers obstructing traffic.  What the report goes on to say that the biker ran into him deliberately.  lie number 1.  And that the cop fell down.  lie number two.  So his side of the story is a bunch of lies. 

no doubt that most cops great are great.  This isn't about most cops.  this is about this one.  This one that thought it would fun, cool, or some other only known reason to him, to cross check some poor smuck on a bike into the curb.

Hi Im mister two rights make a wrong and here is my side kick the ends justify the means. 

I guess the folks in the civil rights marches of the 60s just should have avoided the protests since its "best to avoid situations and groups that are going to get it trouble with the police."

I'm not trying to relate CM and the civil rights movement but please.  The us was built on revolution/protests.  Of course sadly, many of the protests and protesters were meet with the same(and far greater) violance and police brutality shown here simply due to the fact that they were at a situation that are going to get it trouble with police.

There's no telling what happened before the cyclist came into frame so we have to go with the facts. 

1.The cop came towards the cyclist pretty fast.

2. The cop knocked the outta the cyclist.

It all seemed unprovoked.  If there had been a legitimate reason that the cop did what he did it would have been all over the news.  What he did is no better than a sucker punch.  When I have a bad day at the office I don't go and punch someone in the face just because I feel like it.  If he was going to stop the guy for a violation he would have attempted to stop the guy, i.e. hand motions and some yelling.

That being said, I have friends who are cops and they are great folks.  Like any other profession there are going to be some @$$holes and this guy just happens to be one.