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2008-08-02 6:10 AM
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2008-08-02 8:57 AM
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2008-08-02 9:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Run: The Galloway method?
oipolloi - 2008-08-01 9:49 AM

There is however time to devise a Marathon Strategy (point of this thread).

There is also time to devise a pacing strategy to get you to the start of the marathon.  And that's the part that will make the most difference in how your marathon goes.  (point of my replies

Good luck at Moo!

2008-08-02 12:44 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Ironman Run: The Galloway method?
Yeah, I'm also genetically challenged in the run area.  I committed to running this year for my half marathon, becauce I'm notorious for adopting a plan and changing my mind mid-season.  Next year will be my first HIM and full marathon and I definitely intend to do run/walk.  I can walk faster than I run and at a great energy savings.  I do agree though that if the run/walk intervals are too short you lose your momentum.  I like the idea of walking aid stations.  Seems like a logical place to take a little break and get some nutrition.  Good luck on your plan.  I'll be interested to hear what you decide. 
2008-08-02 1:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Run: The Galloway method?
PennState - 2008-08-02 7:57 AM

Again, the math:

If I run at 8:00 min/mile pace, that is 7.5mph. Walking would be about 3.5mph. So if you walk for a minute:

So running at 7.5mph for 7 min= 0.875miles travelled.
walk at 3.5mph for 1 min=0.058 miles
So in 8 min total you have covered = 0.933 miles.
this leaves 0.067 miles to cover for the rest of the mile...which will take 32 seconds at 7.5 mph pace:

thus each mile will be 8:32 instead of 8:00min/mile

Which is a big deal for *me*, but not everyone.

The impact if you are running 10 min/mile is much less:
Run this pace for 9 min: and you travel 0.9 miles.
walk at 3.5 mph for 1 min. and you travel = 0.058 miles
total travelled is 0.958. Thus 0.042 to go for a mile completed.
At 10 min/mile pace this 0.042 is completed in 25 sec. Total pace is 10:25/mile

This is a lesser affect if your run pace is slower.



Nicely Illustrated! And a point well taken.

For anyone interested in the actual Galloway Method, which is aimed at Stand-Alone running events, but may be applicable in modified form to your IM Marathon, here's a link to the basics of Run/Walk Strategy, and the idea of letting rest, muscles that otherwise might later force you to slow WAY down, or stop. Note that the intention is to Run/Walk from the get go because by the time you NEED a walk break you've already reduced your potential performance. That's why to PLAN to walk, is exactly the idea- until 18 miles to go, at which point you let it all hang out during the last 10K.
http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/walk_breaks.html
2008-08-03 1:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Run: The Galloway method?

For someone, and I speak for myself, who has had back surgery; the Galloway method is a program that works for me.  Next year is my 10 year back surgery anniversary.  The doctor told me that 'I would be  fused in 10 years, any physical activity like running is out of the question, your life of biking or running has come to an end because you have the back of an 80 year old, etc, etc, etc,'   Well I am schedule to run my first Marathon in October, and I have plans of finishing IM Mooo in '09 - to celebrate my 10 year back surgery anniversary !

I got back into running following my back surgery following the Galloway method.  Today I did 15 miles at an over pace of 9:26.  I never would have thought this would be possible a years ago.  I give all the credit to the Galloway method to be able to enjoy Tri and running events again.

 The method works for me with my situation....



2008-08-03 1:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Run: The Galloway method?


rollinbones - 2008-07-31 11:33 AM

oipolloi - 2008-07-31 12:50 PM

So I've been thinking of what strategy I'm going to take during the run portion of IMWI this year.

If your walking, it's not a "run portion". Frankly, I don't get why people plan on walking. More people should train to run, and walk only if they  have to. I was amazed at how many people were walking at LP.

Rememeber, your slowest jog is faster than your fastest walk.



Oh that just cracks me up. I am not a runner. I did a 50 km race in in February, just 'cause you know. I was running like 7 minutes and walking 1 near the end, and this walker kept catching up. Turns out she was walking 9 minute kms, which is a pretty quick walk, and definitly faster than I was"running". I walked the rest.
2008-08-04 12:14 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Run: The Galloway method?
I'll chime in and ignore all of the responses about training to walk the run and the like because I think you're an Ironman if you finish the distance regardless of what form of "locomotion" you use.

I have done 2 Ironmans using the Galloway method.

I had microfracture knee surgery in 2005 and had a really hard time getting through rehab and getting back to running. I did all of my 2006 racing with straight running and wasn't making improvements at all. In 2007 prior to my 1st IM (which was also going to be my 1st marathon) I trained all my runs using the 4/1 ratio.

Problem for me was I tended to go too fast on the run segment and I knew that I'd struggle holding myself to that pace for 26.2 miles so I moved to a 3/1 interval and this helped slow me down by about 15-30 seconds per mile but made my legs feel a lot better.

I have a Timex watch with an interval timer and when it beeps I run and when it beeps again I walk. If I am near an aid station and I'm running I'll walk while I eat or hydrate then I'll run through the next walk break.

My running has improved A TON over the last 2 years using this method. My knees are holding up well and I've (thankfully) avoided any running injuries which I feel is in large part to using the Galloway method.

I am a BOP'er and my 2 marathons were 6:17 and 6:01 respectively but both years I was still running and doing my intervals all the way til the end when there were lots of very fit faster athletes than me walking.

Plus I recovered really well from all my long runs and the marathons.

Soooooo I love the intervals and will continue to use them
2008-08-04 3:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Run: The Galloway method?
I also believe that walk breaks are a good thing to practice in training. It's really hard to get those legs firing again at mile 130 to run if you had to walk - planned or not. Maybe we wouldn't see so many folk having to do the walk of death for 10 miles if they had practiced taking a short walk then going again. Maybe not, but just an idea.
2008-08-06 2:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Run: The Galloway method?
I'm late to the party but want to throw my $.02 in...

I've run 11 stand along marathons, including Boston, with a run walk pattern. I didn't know what Galloway was when I started this, I just knew I couldn't swallow water and run at the same time. I would end up with water ON me and not IN me. So I started walking long enough to drink water. On training runs I walk :30 to 1 min every 20 minutes or so (unless its crazy hot, then I might do every 10). During marathons most aid stations are 2 miles apart until the end, so I walk for as long as it takes me to get the water cup and drink some of it, maybe :15. I know its not long, but I've found that if all goes well, ie no weather issues, injuries, 20mph headwinds (don't even ask about that day...) I finish pretty strong without stopping at the last couple of aid stations.

I plan to run between aid stations at IMFL and walk while drinking/eating. That way I won't choke!!
2008-08-06 2:54 PM
in reply to: #1585959

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Subject: RE: Ironman Run: The Galloway method?

LOL!  NOT choking sounds like a heck of a good strategy to me!  You make some good points.  I have a tendency to cut my lip when I run and try to drink out of a water bottle.  Why not just schedule it and quit worrying about how to get nutrition in while running.

k_hase - 2008-08-06 3:38 PM I'm late to the party but want to throw my $.02 in... I've run 11 stand along marathons, including Boston, with a run walk pattern. I didn't know what Galloway was when I started this, I just knew I couldn't swallow water and run at the same time. I would end up with water ON me and not IN me. So I started walking long enough to drink water. On training runs I walk :30 to 1 min every 20 minutes or so (unless its crazy hot, then I might do every 10). During marathons most aid stations are 2 miles apart until the end, so I walk for as long as it takes me to get the water cup and drink some of it, maybe :15. I know its not long, but I've found that if all goes well, ie no weather issues, injuries, 20mph headwinds (don't even ask about that day...) I finish pretty strong without stopping at the last couple of aid stations. I plan to run between aid stations at IMFL and walk while drinking/eating. That way I won't choke!!



2008-08-06 3:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Run: The Galloway method?

katimomma - 2008-08-04 1:54 AM I also believe that walk breaks are a good thing to practice in training. It's really hard to get those legs firing again at mile 130 to run if you had to walk - planned or not. Maybe we wouldn't see so many folk having to do the walk of death for 10 miles if they had practiced taking a short walk then going again. Maybe not, but just an idea.

I would think so.

Not that this answers oipolloi's question DIRECTLY (since obviously, I haven't done an IM, just training for one) ... 

I've always run-trained and done marathons with run-walk, ranging from as low as 1:1 to 5:1. For the particular IM I'm training for, I'm going to train at the low end.

I spoke with three people (all of whom, coincidentally, qualified for Kona at this IM ... and all of whom walked part of the marathon), who all strongly suggested that I (and anyone else considering this race) train run-walk.

Why? Some of this might be generally applicable; some of it just pertains to this particular IM.

Because the marathon is so bloody hot that, with the exception of literally only 2-3 pros, everybody winds up walking part of it, and nearly always they blow up during the second half and do that "walk of death." The folks I spoke with said that the people they saw doing best were the run-walkers who had done so from the outset and trained that way ... and they believed that was because they were used to walking, and had developed good walking musculature, and neuromuscular firing patterns accustomed to a run-walk-run. 

2008-08-06 4:08 PM
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2008-08-06 4:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Run: The Galloway method?
PennState - 2008-08-06 5:08 PM

What % of people in an IM (not counting pro's) do you think walk substantial parts of the marathon.

My guess is about 70%... what say you?

Define 'substantial'

2008-08-06 4:17 PM
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2008-08-06 4:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Run: The Galloway method?
PennState - 2008-08-06 5:17 PM
JohnnyKay - 2008-08-06 5:10 PM
PennState - 2008-08-06 5:08 PM

What % of people in an IM (not counting pro's) do you think walk substantial parts of the marathon.

My guess is about 70%... what say you?

Define 'substantial'

More than just the aid stations to get a quick drink... or more than 10% I guess.

That's a big difference.  10% is 2.6 miles of walking.  At that level, 75% sounds about right.  Reasonable guess anyway.



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