General Discussion Triathlon Talk » What's your Z2 running pace? Rss Feed  
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2005-02-11 10:47 AM

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Subject: What's your Z2 running pace?
Just took my HRM out for a run last night for the first time. Based on what I've heard people say I was expecting to have a difficult time keeping my pace slow enough to stay in Z2 but I actually found it a reasonable pace for a long run. I was by no means setting any speed records but it didn't feel painfully slow either. I've often seen posts from people saying that they practically had to walk to keep in Z2. So that got me thinking about how my pace compares to others training in the same zone. Of course how you define your zones makes a difference too.

So here's what I ended up with last night:

I averaged 134bpm (this is about 65% of my HR reserve - corrected for resting HR) with a max of 142 (was trying to stay below 140). I ran 4.6 miles in 46:45 for an average of 10:09/mile. Like I said, no speed records but again it actually felt like I was running...although I could have easily done 2+ hours at this pace. I realized when I got home that my Z2 limit is actually 147 (72% HR reserve) so I have some room to bump the pace a little next time I'm out, but since I haven't run in 3 months I wanted to ease into it.

So so what's your Z2 upper limit (and method for calculating) and what kind of running pace does that translate into for you?


2005-02-11 11:02 AM
in reply to: #115786

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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?

I'll admit that I initially used the 220-age method when setting my HRM last year.  I just used a slightly different calculation recently, and don't remember it right off the bat (got it at home) - but it's close to the same MaxHR for me.

Last fall, I'd average about 9:45m/m at ~140 bpm.  Right now, I'm closer to 10:30s (missing two months sucks!)  However, I've found that it's coming back quicker than I thought. 

I also find it rather difficult to stay in the lower zones.  As I'm running, I end up rationalizing: "Train as you race, race as you train", and start pushing it.

2005-02-11 11:10 AM
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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?
Right on - more power to those who force themselves to train purley aerobically during this time of the year!

My zone 2 regime is 158-172 bpm based on the model where zone 2 is calculated as 81-88% HRmax. In my case, my HRmax was a tested value at the end of season last year. As an aside, my HRlt was also obtained, and if you calculated zone 2 using lactate threshold, I get the same zone limits +/- a beat. Anyways, running in zone 2 puts me at just under 10:00/miles for runs over an hour long.

In terms of "keeping it slow" the best thing to do during aerobic runs is force yourself to not only stay in your zone, but to increase your stride count for that HR. Every couple of minutes or so, count your # of left foot strikes in 20 seconds. You should aim for 30 or more. This way, when you add intensity later in the training year, you'll have very good leg speed as a foundation.
2005-02-11 11:10 AM
in reply to: #115786

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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?
I'm right around 9:00m/mi with a HR of 140. At 70% of heart rate reserve i should be right at 140Chris
2005-02-11 11:21 AM
in reply to: #115786

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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?

My z2 for running is 141-146 and my pace at this HR depends on when during the run I'm in it (which means I definately need to stay in a solid base phase now) but typically averages between 9:00-9:15min/mile right now over a 40 min period.  I start out at 8:50min/mile and usually have to drop to 9:00-9:15min/mile by the end of 40 min.

This HR training zone was determined by my coach through a run LT test I took last week.  My running LT occurs at 176bpm.

2005-02-11 11:21 AM
in reply to: #115800

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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?

jvinciqu - 2005-02-11 9:10 AM In terms of "keeping it slow" the best thing to do during aerobic runs is force yourself to not only stay in your zone, but to increase your stride count for that HR. Every couple of minutes or so, count your # of left foot strikes in 20 seconds. You should aim for 30 or more. This way, when you add intensity later in the training year, you'll have very good leg speed as a foundation.

I haven't been counting footfalls, but I've definitely been working on faster turnover.  Last night, while running on the indoor track, I could really 'feel' what that faster turnover has been doing for me when I picked it up a little at the end.  That's really getting me fired up for some running races!



2005-02-11 11:29 AM
in reply to: #115786

Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?
I used the Karvonan (sp) method but haven't refigured it for a couple years. My upper 2 limit is about 160 and that translates right now to about a 8:15 pace. Last summer when I was doing my long runs for my A race (1/2 IM) my upper zone 2 was somewhere in the 7:30 range. Looks like I have a lot of work to do
2005-02-11 11:40 AM
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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?

I determined my HR zones based on a 30 minute running time trial.  The avg HR for the last 20 minutes divided by 1.01 equals the Lactate Threshold.  For me, my avg HR was 170; this yeilds a LT of 168.  Based on the charts in the TTTB, my zone 2 is 143 - 153 bpm.  The pace to stay in zone 2 depends on how long the run is.  Usually, my zone 2 pace is between 10 m/mile and 10:30 m/mile.

TJ

2005-02-11 11:57 AM
in reply to: #115800

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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?
I asked a question about this a week or two ago and there wasn't a clear cut answer but it seems like 81-88% is high for establishing zone 2. The general consensus was that somewhere in the 60-75% area is what most people use. 88% of your max is working awful hard...are youble to maintain this pace for 60+min?

jvinciqu - 2005-02-11 11:10 AM

My zone 2 regime is 158-172 bpm based on the model where zone 2 is calculated as 81-88% HRmax. In my case, my HRmax was a tested value at the end of season last year. As an aside, my HRlt was also obtained, and if you calculated zone 2 using lactate threshold, I get the same zone limits +/- a beat. Anyways, running in zone 2 puts me at just under 10:00/miles for runs over an hour long.
2005-02-11 11:59 AM
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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?
My zone and pace are very similar to zia_cyclist.  I started with a MaxHr formula that gave me about a 148 top to Zone 2.  Following an LT test on the treadmill, I now use 143-153.  And long runs (1hr) in this zone give me +/-10min pace.  For my LT, I used 1min steps out of Friel's TTB but I wasn't really happy with the results so I'll probably do a longer time trial or maybe 2-3min steps next time.  In the test I also found my MaxHr was higher than predicted.  Using the new MaxHr actually gives me a 153 top to Zone 2 too, so that's why I'm comfortable using it for now.
2005-02-11 12:00 PM
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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?
What % of HRmax do you use for Z2 upper limit? At first I thought...wow 7:30 miles in Z2, but then I realized that your Z2 is 20+ bpm more than what I was running at last night at 10:09 pace.

JoeR - 2005-02-11 11:29 AM

I used the Karvonan (sp) method but haven't refigured it for a couple years. My upper 2 limit is about 160 and that translates right now to about a 8:15 pace. Last summer when I was doing my long runs for my A race (1/2 IM) my upper zone 2 was somewhere in the 7:30 range. Looks like I have a lot of work to do


2005-02-11 12:52 PM
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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?
TH3_FRB - 2005-02-11 11:57 AM

I asked a question about this a week or two ago and there wasn't a clear cut answer but it seems like 81-88% is high for establishing zone 2. The general consensus was that somewhere in the 60-75% area is what most people use. 88% of your max is working awful hard...are youble to maintain this pace for 60+min?

---Good catch - sorry - that should be 81-88% HRlt, not HRmax. and what I meant to say was that calculating based on HRmax yields the same results.
2005-02-11 1:32 PM
in reply to: #115862

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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?
Okay, but still no matter how you define the zone, 160-170bpm seems fairly high for an "easy" long run...unless your max HR is considerably higher than mine. Just trying to understand the differences between people's training ranges. This is exactly why it is so difficult for someone to start out and establish the zones that are right for them...so many variations and opinions, yet no solid rules to follow.

jvinciqu - 2005-02-11 12:52 PM

TH3_FRB - 2005-02-11 11:57 AM

I asked a question about this a week or two ago and there wasn't a clear cut answer but it seems like 81-88% is high for establishing zone 2. The general consensus was that somewhere in the 60-75% area is what most people use. 88% of your max is working awful hard...are youble to maintain this pace for 60+min?

---Good catch - sorry - that should be 81-88% HRlt, not HRmax. and what I meant to say was that calculating based on HRmax yields the same results.
2005-02-11 4:10 PM
in reply to: #115786

Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?
I don't remember everything exactly and I don't really monitor HR very often, maybe once a week to see where I'm at. My Max HR is 195 and my resting HR 50. My pace of 7:30 was at a HR of ~160 which is 75% of my HRR. I'm extimating somewhat but I know that's pretty close.
2005-02-11 4:27 PM
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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?
I've been trying to keep my HR below 140 for easy/low Z2 runs and I average a 9:30-9:45 minute/mile pace. I ran a three miler last week at an average pace of 8:18/mile, and for me, that was pretty darn fast!
2005-02-11 4:55 PM
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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?

John,

I tried the treadmill test, but wasn't really happy with the results.  I plotted the data, like in TTTB, but I really didn't see an inflection in the graph.  And picking my LT based on ventilory threshold didn't work very well either.  I thinks the 1 minute steps recommended in TTTB are too short.  So, I did the 30 minute time trial method.  This method seems to have worked very well.  My percieved exertion in the zone 2, based on this method, feels like what I would expect zone 2 to feel like.

TJ



2005-02-11 5:14 PM
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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?
I did a run a couple of days ago where I was trying to maintain zone 2 and I had to walk sometimes to do it because of several big hills in the route. I'll guess that I can run around 11 to 11.5 minute miles and stay in zone 2 on flat terrain. I've guessed/calculated that my zone 2 is from 130 to 145. I've used all the methods for calculating HR zones and finally settled on 15 bpm per zone, with a low (zone 1 start) of 115 and a maximum at 190. The highest HR I've measured during a workout is 177 or 178 (my memory is going bad). My LT seems to be consistently around 155 in all 3 diciplines.
2005-02-11 5:21 PM
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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?

Here's what my most recent run LT test looked like (test taken on 2-4-05 first thing in the morning).

You can see that my lactic acid concentration really shoots up fast once I get past 2.4m/mol.  This is because I haven't done hardly any running since the Chicago Marathon last October 04.  When "trained" I typically hold in the 2-2.5m/mol range for a longer time period.



Edited by Steve- 2005-02-11 5:27 PM




(hr.gif)



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2005-02-11 5:49 PM
in reply to: #115786

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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?
Steve, pretty impressive graph! What does it mean? ;-)

2005-02-11 6:20 PM
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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?

lynda - 2005-02-11 4:49 PM Steve, pretty impressive graph! What does it mean? ;-)

LOL.

My heart rate was taken at various intervals when my lactate blood sample was taken.  The concentration of lactic acid, measured in m/mol and my heart rate at each concentration is illustrated on the graph.

As a general rule of thumb, once you reach 4.0m/mol, that is your LT.  However, with me, my coach has been working with me enough and we've done enough of these tests that he's able to extrapolate pretty accurately where my LTHR is based on the time of the year (if I'm fit or not) and the time of day (earlier my results show a lower HR and later my results show a higher HR).

He told me that  based on this data and the other factors I've mentioned, my run LTHR is 176, until we take another test in about 6-8 weeks.

2005-02-11 7:21 PM
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Subject: RE: What's your Z2 running pace?
zia_cyclist - 2005-02-11 4:55 PM

John,

I tried the treadmill test, but wasn't really happy with the results. I plotted the data, like in TTTB, but I really didn't see an inflection in the graph. And picking my LT based on ventilory threshold didn't work very well either. I thinks the 1 minute steps recommended in TTTB are too short. So, I did the 30 minute time trial method. This method seems to have worked very well. My percieved exertion in the zone 2, based on this method, feels like what I would expect zone 2 to feel like.

TJ



Yeah,  I had 2 "kinks" in the plot.  One was more noticible, but it would have given me a much higher LT (176 I think).  This seemed too high to me and the other one ends up giving me similar zones as the MaxHR formula so I'm using that for now and it does "feel" about right.  (It wa hard to guage the breathing/exertion since I have really only been doing easy base stuff so I didn't have much personal reference to work with.)  Anyway, I'll probably try the 30min version or maybe do a 10k or something at some point and see what I come up with


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