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2008-09-05 1:33 PM
in reply to: #1653219

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Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants
coachese - 2008-09-05 2:22 PM
ASA22 - 2008-09-05 8:56 AM

I know how about being sympathetic...

Perhaps, just perhaps we should all stop thinking about ourselves just for a moment.  Maybe there's more to what's going on than what you see.  Maybe it's a couple that hasn't been out to dinner in months because they can't find or afford a baby sitter, maybe it's a family celebrating some momentus event in their lives, maybe it's a farewell dinnner for the father who is going off to Iraq....

Here's a true story that happened to me:  Young mother sitting in a resteraunt, she has two young kids (I'm guessing 3 & 4)  and they are jumping on the booth, yelling at each other, arguing, getting out of the booth and walking/running/jumping/skipping in between the other tables/booths.  The young mother is just sitting there eating, seemingly unaware of or not caring about how her kids are acting.

I get fed up, I go up to her and ask her to take control of her kids because they are disturping my evening out at the resteraunt.

She looks up at me, and tears start to well up in her eyes.  She politely apologizes, says that I'm right, then in a trembling, soft voice says she just left the hospital where her husband died and she just couldn't go back to her/their home and she was trying to gain the strength to explain to her two small children that daddy was dead.

Feeling like a total git, I called the waitress over and paid her bill.

Ok her kids "disturbed my dinner" so I complained...but who really had the right to complain that day...me or her?

One in 1,000,000 chance. Sounds like you blew it. I'll let you know the next time I see unruly children and find out that one of the parents has died very recently and it's not just parents allowing their children to act like little wankers.

Don't hold your breath.

Is the 1:1,000,000 chance the chance that it will be a parent in distress, or is it the chance that you will actually take the time to inquire to see if the parent/child is in distress rather than jumping to the conclusion that "its just a parent allowing their child to act like little wankers"?

Truthfully, in these situations have you ever, even once, just one time, asked if the parent if there was something wrong or if you could help?  Or is it the more common scenario that you assume that it's simply a parent "letting their kid act like a wanker"?

I'm curious why is that assumption OK, but it's rediculous to make the opposite assumption that it's a good parent having a bad day?

 



2008-09-05 1:37 PM
in reply to: #1648274

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Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants

crazyt1971 - 2008-09-03 11:29 PM How do you handle kids that run wild in restaurant while you are trying to enjoy a quiet and relaxing meal after a LONG and STRESSFUL day of work?
;;

STAY OUT OF CHUCK E CHEESE!! (just kidding!)

If you are in a more upscale restaurant you can probably talk with the manager in charge, since it would be to their best interest to provide peace and quiet to their patrons...and would most likely handle it appropriately and professionally.

If you are in a middle type chain restaurant, you could ask your wait person to allow you to move. Sometimes it's the only way to get peace...even though it's their job to keep the place comfortable. What I mean here is the wait person may be someone who is too shy to talk to the parents or what not.

Seriously, I am NOT a polite person when it comes to bratty kids in stores or in restaurants. I will turn my head toward the ruccus and eyeball them in a very stern manner...passing between the kids and the parents. I'll make it clear it is a rude and disturbing incident. If no fix after that I'll go talk to the manager. I don't actually talk to the parents unless the kids are actually invading my personal space physically (which hasn't happened) but I'll get an employee to do it. It's their job to keep the place comfortable for it's patrons. If no peace then I will ask to be moved...and stare down the parents when I move.

In reality it's hard to know because you never know how the family would react. You may have someone who is doing their best with the best intentions or you may have another who is not concerned with extending courtesy to fellow patrons.

My mother would beat my butt if I acted that way in public and embarassed her by disturbing everyone around us.  Of course now she would probably go to jail for making her kids behave correctly.......

2008-09-05 1:39 PM
in reply to: #1648274

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Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants

To follow up on my post...this is of course in the event that the parents are not properly watching the kids. Every single time I've had something like this happen...that has been the case.

If the parent is passed out on the floor then that's different.

2008-09-05 1:43 PM
in reply to: #1653248

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Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants
ASA22 - 2008-09-05 2:33 PM
coachese - 2008-09-05 2:22 PM
ASA22 - 2008-09-05 8:56 AM

I know how about being sympathetic...

Perhaps, just perhaps we should all stop thinking about ourselves just for a moment.  Maybe there's more to what's going on than what you see.  Maybe it's a couple that hasn't been out to dinner in months because they can't find or afford a baby sitter, maybe it's a family celebrating some momentus event in their lives, maybe it's a farewell dinnner for the father who is going off to Iraq....

Here's a true story that happened to me:  Young mother sitting in a resteraunt, she has two young kids (I'm guessing 3 & 4)  and they are jumping on the booth, yelling at each other, arguing, getting out of the booth and walking/running/jumping/skipping in between the other tables/booths.  The young mother is just sitting there eating, seemingly unaware of or not caring about how her kids are acting.

I get fed up, I go up to her and ask her to take control of her kids because they are disturping my evening out at the resteraunt.

She looks up at me, and tears start to well up in her eyes.  She politely apologizes, says that I'm right, then in a trembling, soft voice says she just left the hospital where her husband died and she just couldn't go back to her/their home and she was trying to gain the strength to explain to her two small children that daddy was dead.

Feeling like a total git, I called the waitress over and paid her bill.

Ok her kids "disturbed my dinner" so I complained...but who really had the right to complain that day...me or her?

One in 1,000,000 chance. Sounds like you blew it. I'll let you know the next time I see unruly children and find out that one of the parents has died very recently and it's not just parents allowing their children to act like little wankers.

Don't hold your breath.

Is the 1:1,000,000 chance the chance that it will be a parent in distress, or is it the chance that you will actually take the time to inquire to see if the parent/child is in distress rather than jumping to the conclusion that "its just a parent allowing their child to act like little wankers"?

Truthfully, in these situations have you ever, even once, just one time, asked if the parent if there was something wrong or if you could help?  Or is it the more common scenario that you assume that it's simply a parent "letting their kid act like a wanker"?

I'm curious why is that assumption OK, but it's rediculous to make the opposite assumption that it's a good parent having a bad day?

 

long time listener, first time caller on this thread, but lets think about this realistically.

you are a parent sitting absent-mindedly in a restaurant, while your children run helter skelter all over the place.  some comes over, taps you on the shoulder, and gently asks in a calm tone is everything is alright.

the expectation is that the next line out is "because otherwise why are your kids acting up."

 

there is no answer to the riddle of this thread, only basic guidelines of decency for child-less customers and guidelines for customers.  There is a covenant that we all should abide by to peacefully coexist.  When that covenant is broken, it may be interpreted as a selfish act, that the person breaking the covenant views themselves worth more than the others around, so there is no need to temper unruly children.  (note : there are exceptions to this such as the mother losing her husband)

 

for us, having 2 boys (5 and 2 years old) - we've left restaurants before when meltdowns were imminent.  one time we didn't even get a drink order in before we left, other times we've had one person take the offending child to the car while the other gets the food wrapped up and pays the bill.  but truth be told, we now eat at family-friendly places in family-traffic times, so rarely do we have the loudest chimps in the jungle...

2008-09-05 2:11 PM
in reply to: #1653248

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Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants
ASA22 - 2008-09-05 11:33 AM
coachese - 2008-09-05 2:22 PM
ASA22 - 2008-09-05 8:56 AM

I know how about being sympathetic...

Perhaps, just perhaps we should all stop thinking about ourselves just for a moment.  Maybe there's more to what's going on than what you see.  Maybe it's a couple that hasn't been out to dinner in months because they can't find or afford a baby sitter, maybe it's a family celebrating some momentus event in their lives, maybe it's a farewell dinnner for the father who is going off to Iraq....

Here's a true story that happened to me:  Young mother sitting in a resteraunt, she has two young kids (I'm guessing 3 & 4)  and they are jumping on the booth, yelling at each other, arguing, getting out of the booth and walking/running/jumping/skipping in between the other tables/booths.  The young mother is just sitting there eating, seemingly unaware of or not caring about how her kids are acting.

I get fed up, I go up to her and ask her to take control of her kids because they are disturping my evening out at the resteraunt.

She looks up at me, and tears start to well up in her eyes.  She politely apologizes, says that I'm right, then in a trembling, soft voice says she just left the hospital where her husband died and she just couldn't go back to her/their home and she was trying to gain the strength to explain to her two small children that daddy was dead.

Feeling like a total git, I called the waitress over and paid her bill.

Ok her kids "disturbed my dinner" so I complained...but who really had the right to complain that day...me or her?

One in 1,000,000 chance. Sounds like you blew it. I'll let you know the next time I see unruly children and find out that one of the parents has died very recently and it's not just parents allowing their children to act like little wankers.

Don't hold your breath.

Is the 1:1,000,000 chance the chance that it will be a parent in distress, or is it the chance that you will actually take the time to inquire to see if the parent/child is in distress rather than jumping to the conclusion that "its just a parent allowing their child to act like little wankers"?

Truthfully, in these situations have you ever, even once, just one time, asked if the parent if there was something wrong or if you could help?  Or is it the more common scenario that you assume that it's simply a parent "letting their kid act like a wanker"?

I'm curious why is that assumption OK, but it's rediculous to make the opposite assumption that it's a good parent having a bad day?

Ok, we'll go with your premise that it may be a perfectly good parent having a bad day... it happens, I'm sure.

Take your bad day out of the restaurant. Your bad day should not infringe on my good day.

Oh, and yes I have asked if there was something I could do to help - once. Let's just say that the father (who, I guess was having a bad day) ending up arrested and my brother ended up with a broken rib.

2008-09-05 2:25 PM
in reply to: #1648274

Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants

back it up to that wednesday.....

It was my first day back to work 730am- 8pm. 27 little ones...15 of which have never been outside their house and Wednesday was their first time being in the classroom. It was a longgggg day filled with lots of screaming and tears.

Dinner was at a sushi restaurant. I wanted to go somewhere quiet to unwind and have a quiet meal. The place was usually quiet and the wait for a table was minimal on a wednesday night. The two boys ran back and forth and each time they returned to their table the father would feed them a spoonful of food. After the hostess and manager talked to the boys and to their parents, they did stop. They paused for about two minutes and started running again. My head was pounding like the opening theme song to space odysessy. What got to me was that the parents did very little to stop them. I did ask the boys to stop running and looked over at the parents to see if they would say anything. but nothing... nada... zilch.

 



2008-09-05 2:33 PM
in reply to: #1653067

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Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants

wurkit_gurl

 I'm sorry that I've offended you.  Is there a way I could have phrased things differenty to not come off as ripping you a new one?  I was enjoying this discussion and (as you can tell by my post count) kept coming back to it.  You hit on a couple of areas that I truly am interested in.  Parenting, management, and...  What's the phrase for it, interpretation of a situation.

 

2008-09-05 2:36 PM
in reply to: #1653407

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Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants
crazyt1971 - 2008-09-05 3:25 PM

back it up to that wednesday.....

It was my first day back to work 730am- 8pm. 27 little ones...15 of which have never been outside their house and Wednesday was their first time being in the classroom. It was a longgggg day filled with lots of screaming and tears.

Dinner was at a sushi restaurant. I wanted to go somewhere quiet to unwind and have a quiet meal. The place was usually quiet and the wait for a table was minimal on a wednesday night. The two boys ran back and forth and each time they returned to their table the father would feed them a spoonful of food. After the hostess and manager talked to the boys and to their parents, they did stop. They paused for about two minutes and started running again. My head was pounding like the opening theme song to space odysessy. What got to me was that the parents did very little to stop them. I did ask the boys to stop running and looked over at the parents to see if they would say anything. but nothing... nada... zilch.

 

with legs like that, can you blame the boys for constantly running past you?

you brought this upon yourself...  

2008-09-05 2:36 PM
in reply to: #1648274

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Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants

Not trying to hijack...this kind of goes in the same thing... 

I hate it when you are eating at a buffet and the kids are allowed to get their own food...now mind you I understand that kids do need to learn how to fix their own plates, but this should stay at home.

Food strewn everywhere...the soup spoon ending up in the mashed taters, the macaroni thrown everywhere, the nose wiping followed by the bread grabbing, the taking of a sample bite and sticking the same spoon back into the banana pudding......

Of course I've learned to stay out of buffets. LOL.

2008-09-05 2:59 PM
in reply to: #1653362

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Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants
coachese - 2008-09-05 3:11 PM
ASA22 - 2008-09-05 11:33 AM
coachese - 2008-09-05 2:22 PM
ASA22 - 2008-09-05 8:56 AM

I know how about being sympathetic...

Perhaps, just perhaps we should all stop thinking about ourselves just for a moment.  Maybe there's more to what's going on than what you see.  Maybe it's a couple that hasn't been out to dinner in months because they can't find or afford a baby sitter, maybe it's a family celebrating some momentus event in their lives, maybe it's a farewell dinnner for the father who is going off to Iraq....

Here's a true story that happened to me:  Young mother sitting in a resteraunt, she has two young kids (I'm guessing 3 & 4)  and they are jumping on the booth, yelling at each other, arguing, getting out of the booth and walking/running/jumping/skipping in between the other tables/booths.  The young mother is just sitting there eating, seemingly unaware of or not caring about how her kids are acting.

I get fed up, I go up to her and ask her to take control of her kids because they are disturping my evening out at the resteraunt.

She looks up at me, and tears start to well up in her eyes.  She politely apologizes, says that I'm right, then in a trembling, soft voice says she just left the hospital where her husband died and she just couldn't go back to her/their home and she was trying to gain the strength to explain to her two small children that daddy was dead.

Feeling like a total git, I called the waitress over and paid her bill.

Ok her kids "disturbed my dinner" so I complained...but who really had the right to complain that day...me or her?

One in 1,000,000 chance. Sounds like you blew it. I'll let you know the next time I see unruly children and find out that one of the parents has died very recently and it's not just parents allowing their children to act like little wankers.

Don't hold your breath.

Is the 1:1,000,000 chance the chance that it will be a parent in distress, or is it the chance that you will actually take the time to inquire to see if the parent/child is in distress rather than jumping to the conclusion that "its just a parent allowing their child to act like little wankers"?

Truthfully, in these situations have you ever, even once, just one time, asked if the parent if there was something wrong or if you could help?  Or is it the more common scenario that you assume that it's simply a parent "letting their kid act like a wanker"?

I'm curious why is that assumption OK, but it's rediculous to make the opposite assumption that it's a good parent having a bad day?

Ok, we'll go with your premise that it may be a perfectly good parent having a bad day... it happens, I'm sure.

Take your bad day out of the restaurant. Your bad day should not infringe on my good day.

Oh, and yes I have asked if there was something I could do to help - once. Let's just say that the father (who, I guess was having a bad day) ending up arrested and my brother ended up with a broken rib.

I guess for me a loud child, or a crying baby, or a kid standing on his chair, or a kid going back and forth really doesn't bother me.  it's not something that infringes on my good time.

For me life is too short to get upset about not being able to eat my sandwhich in peace.  There are far too many "real" insulting issues that I deal with on a dailey basis to get all worked up about some loud kid, and whether or not their parents are good, neglectful, mediocre, rude...

Of course people vary as do opinions

2008-09-05 3:03 PM
in reply to: #1653434

Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants
daijoubu - 2008-09-05 3:33 PM

wurkit_gurl

 I'm sorry that I've offended you.  Is there a way I could have phrased things differenty to not come off as ripping you a new one?  I was enjoying this discussion and (as you can tell by my post count) kept coming back to it.  You hit on a couple of areas that I truly am interested in.  Parenting, management, and...  What's the phrase for it, interpretation of a situation.

 

Meh, it wasn't you specifically. Just in general. This really goes beyond noisy kids in restaurants. It's more the principle of the thing. Let me try to put it this way:

I've spent A LOT of time with families with young children - newborn to about 5 or 6 years old. A LOT of time, both in nannying situations, as well as social situations. I nannied for a lot of families from my church, so I've gone to Easter potlucks, other functions, etc, attended by all of the same families and children that I nannied for. I've sat for various permutations of these kids while the collective parents went out to dinner - sitting for 3 different sets of kids at one house. So I've experienced these kids, and their parents in several different capacities. My ex-boyfriend used to rent a room from one of the families and so we socialized with them a lot,even after I wasn't nannying anymore - their oldest, who is now 6, I've known since before he was 2. He is like my baby (and now he's in kindergarten - sniff!). The vast majority of the kids I know do not have any special needs. What I have noticed, from all of this, is that the kids who act out the most and the ones who do not listen, it is the PARENTS who are at fault - the parents who give in to their kids every whim, the parents who do not set boundaries or say "no". They continue to let their children behave however they please. And some of the moms I sat for have even talked to me about other things other parents I know have done that appall them - women they are friends with. So it's evident to others as well in those cases. I've sat for a few families, fortunately  not ones from my church, who basically did not parent their children. They were home, but I was there feeding them, bathing them, while the parents did whatever. The kids ate in front of the TV - 3 year olds! Do you think those kids are going to have any idea as to how to behave at a dinner table? It's appalling and I feel very bad for these children. The worst part? Their mother was an effing teacher...

When I nannied for these kids, the assumption was that I was being paid not just to "keep an eye on them" but to care for them, which includes discipline, in my book. If the families had certain ways to discipline that they preferred (time-out, etc) or I knew the family well, I'd stick to tactics that they would use, within reason (obviously not physical, but warnings or whatever seemed to work). But with the families who DIDN'T do a dang thing, you'd better believe I told those kids "no". And it WORKS. Like the example that I gave about the boy who probably has asperger's. His mother never really bothered to discipline him. I'm sure she was overwhelmed, and that is unfortunate, but in those situations, you owe it to your children to HTFU with some patience and deal with the situation, or get help, if you can't do it yourself. And I know that it is not always easy. But at the basic level, this little boy just needed someone to show him what to do. He was VERY good with me - he'd come and sit in my lap and hold my hand, and he was not an affectionate child. Kids like rules, they like knowing what to do and how to do things. Yes, they misbehave, I'm not denying that a kid won't throw a tantrum. If a child is cranky, they act out - I can recognize a tired child, trust me. But chronic misbehavior that does not stem from an underlying condition is unacceptable and there is no excuse for it. I've taken small children, in multiples, out in public, I understand how difficult it is. But my kids never acted up like that for me.

I know it's not my business to tell people how to parent their children. I just get very frustrated when I hear "you don't have kids so you wouldn't understand". Having kids yourself doesn't make you the world's best parent and not having kids doesn't make you ignorant.

ETA: I DO think there is a lot of touchy-feely "everyone is special"-ness that goes around these days and that seems to make parents hesitant to discipline their children. Not to mention this idea that children should be handled with kid gloves and shrouded in bubble wrap, which also plays into this, I think. But that's another rant



Edited by wurkit_gurl 2008-09-05 3:06 PM


2008-09-05 3:19 PM
in reply to: #1648274

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Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants
Good Gawd.....we're still on this......

Hey Look over there.......*points to 'Porn Star Name' Thread*



2008-09-05 3:20 PM
in reply to: #1653615

Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants

bradleyd3 - 2008-09-05 4:19 PM Good Gawd.....we're still on this...... Hey Look over there.......*points to 'Porn Star Name' Thread*

No, I only answered because someone specifically asked me a question. It was sort of long to stick in a PM. I will edit and stick in a PM anyway.

NM - it won't let me cut and paste, and I'm not going to retype all of that. Sorry folks.



Edited by wurkit_gurl 2008-09-05 3:21 PM
2008-09-05 4:15 PM
in reply to: #1653618

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Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants

Hey bradleyd3, my parents raised me proper and taught me when and how to apologize.  I owed wurkit_gurl a specific and sincere apology at least as public as the offence.

 I agree with her that boundaries are important with raising children and believe that consistent application of those boundaries is just as important.  The same boundary _every_ time.  "I'm too tired to enforce the rules today" confuses the child.  

 I'm still undecided on the idea that society coddles children too much these days.  I believe that if my son goes to a real school focused on education, then he should be held back if he fails.  If he goes to a glorified daycare then he should remain with his peer group regardless of academic performance.  I'm really tempted to move him to Japan when he gets to school age.  My wife's not so interested in that idea.

2008-09-05 6:05 PM
in reply to: #1653771

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Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants
daijoubu - 2008-09-05 5:15 PM 

 I'm still undecided on the idea that society coddles children too much these days.  I believe that if my son goes to a real school focused on education, then he should be held back if he fails.  If he goes to a glorified daycare then he should remain with his peer group regardless of academic performance.  I'm really tempted to move him to Japan when he gets to school age.  My wife's not so interested in that idea.

Be careful what you wish for. Repeating a grade increases the risk of eventually dropping out.  Repeating 2 grades (or the same one twice) makes eventual graduation highly unlikely.

Even in school districts that do a generally poor job (based on rates of graduation/SAT scores/college attendance) will have kids that do well.  Those kids have highly involved parents.  And even schools that do generally well will have kids that fail.  Sometimes it's because of the parents, and sometimes it's because of the kid. So if your kid (who looks pretty young in your avatar - at least I assume that's him?) turns out to have some sort of impediment to learning along with his peers, prepare to do a lot of extra parenting around school issues.

2008-09-05 7:18 PM
in reply to: #1654088

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Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants
gearboy - 2008-09-05 4:05 PM 

Be careful what you wish for. Repeating a grade increases the risk of eventually dropping out.  Repeating 2 grades (or the same one twice) makes eventual graduation highly unlikely.

 Is the goal graduation or education?  What good is graduating if you did not comprehend the material but just memorized and regurgitated?

gearboy - 2008-09-05 4:05 PM  

Even in school districts that do a generally poor job (based on rates of graduation/SAT scores/college attendance) will have kids that do well.  Those kids have highly involved parents.  And even schools that do generally well will have kids that fail.  Sometimes it's because of the parents, and sometimes it's because of the kid. So if your kid (who looks pretty young in your avatar - at least I assume that's him?) turns out to have some sort of impediment to learning along with his peers, prepare to do a lot of extra parenting around school issues.

 He's 3 now.  And I know that his education is my responsibility, but as part of that responsibility I need to seek out the best opportunities and resources as well as being involved.  Coming from a mixed family trying to emphasize Japanese language as much as we can, having him attend an English school will be a little challenging.  If we go with French Immersion it will make our job more challenging as my wife has no understanding of French and I can remember enough to order a meal but not much more.

 I'm concerned that some schools are teaching to the test rather than educating students in order to score better with the No Child Left Behind act.  Canada hasn't implemented it but can't be too far behind as we are pretty much just another state at times.



2008-09-05 7:40 PM
in reply to: #1654201

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Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants

Well, if he fails/repeats, he neither gets educated nor gets closer to graduating.  So I don't see them as necessarily in opposition to one another.

And even though the US of W has the No Child laws, not all schools teach to the test.  Again, good schools with a good history generally still educate.

But I think we've hijacked this thread, so I'm going to leave it alone at this point.

2008-09-05 10:20 PM
in reply to: #1652555

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Subject: RE: Kids in restaurants
jmk-brooklyn - 2008-09-05 10:09 AM 99% of the time, my son’s great in public places. He’s a very talkative kid, so he’ll chatter away about this and that throughout the meal, and sometimes we have to remind him about using his“inside voice” but he rarely acts up. When he does, I try to settle him down at the table, and if that doesn’t work, I take him (or drag him or carry him) out of the dining room until he settles down. It’s never happened, fortunately, but anyone who tries to tell me how I ought to discipline my kid is going to get a big tall glass of MYOFB. He’s a 4-year old, and occasionally, they have been known to exercize free will. If there was a button I could push to make him cut it out, I’d do it, but there isn’t, and it’s not any more pleasurable for me than it is for you, trust me.
X2.  My son has been complimented for his good behavior but he does act up.  For the mere fact that he is pushing 5 we don't go to nice restaurants with him.  I am sorry but if you are at Applebees and some kids is messing around just deal with it.   I know everyone here was a kid and will say "I would have never done that or my dad would have killed me" I say bull.  I was scared to death of my parents.  I was spanked, punished, etc and I still screwed around.  Kids will be kids.  If you don't want to deal with kids don't go to places kids are.  If you are at an expensive resturant call a manager don't yell at the parents or worse the kids.
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