General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Why a 12/25 cassette when... Rss Feed  
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2008-09-06 11:27 AM

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Subject: Why a 12/25 cassette when...

in the big chain ring (53) and in the 13 tooth cog I'm at 33 MPH at 104 rpm cadence.  This was on today's ride coming down the Causeways (bridges) with a tailwind.  I honestly don't need to go any faster, after that I can rest! 

So I'm thinking that instead of a 12/25 for my race wheel I should put on a 13-25.  I see there is such an Ultegra cassette in the Junior grouping. 

I was trying to take some other mental notes with my gearing.  Small chain ring (39), 14 cog, 100 rpms was ~22mph.  I can definitely handle that, any faster it's the big ring so I don't have to worry about using the small-13 cog for excessive cross-gearing.  For the opposite case in today's headwind up the big Causeway was small ring, 23 cog, 84 rpms 11.4 mph.  A 25 cog would have been much nicer. 

Only hiccup is that I read that the 13-25 is not compatible with 10-speed Dura-Ace freehubs, not sure what is on the American Classic race wheel, need to research that.

Am I missing anything here?  Seems like for most people a 13-25 with a 53/39 would be better solution. Or a 12/x with a compact crank.



2008-09-06 11:37 AM
in reply to: #1654990

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Southern Pines, NC
Subject: RE: Why a 12/25 cassette when...
When I was racing road, and even now that I'm not, the 50/34 compact with an 11-23 in back was (and still is) the best setup I've ever ridden. All the high end of a 53/39 but with an extra couple wall-climbing gears. A 34/23 is no joke and will get you up most hills.
2008-09-06 11:44 AM
in reply to: #1655004

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Subject: RE: Why a 12/25 cassette when...

DrPete - 2008-09-06 9:37 AMs. A 34/23 is no joke and will get you up most hills.

 That doesn't make it for me. I need a setup for ALL hills. :-)

2008-09-06 1:45 PM
in reply to: #1655017

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Subject: RE: Why a 12/25 cassette when...
E=H2O - 2008-09-06 12:44 PM

DrPete - 2008-09-06 9:37 AMs. A 34/23 is no joke and will get you up most hills.

 That doesn't make it for me. I need a setup for ALL hills. :-)

I got up there with an 11/23... So maybe "most hills" was an understatement.

 

2008-09-06 2:12 PM
in reply to: #1655004

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Subject: RE: Why a 12/25 cassette when...

DrPete - 2008-09-06 12:37 PM When I was racing road, and even now that I'm not, the 50/34 compact with an 11-23 in back was (and still is) the best setup I've ever ridden. All the high end of a 53/39 but with an extra couple wall-climbing gears. A 34/23 is no joke and will get you up most hills.

Hey nice pix.

THAT setup you have looks like a very nice combination of gearing!

"oh honey I need to buy something else..." Nah that's not going to fly right now Frown

 

50/34 Chainring 10spd 11-23 Drive % chg 53/39 Chainring 10spd 13-25 Drive % chg
50 11 4.545   53 13 4.077  
50 12 4.167 -8.333 53 14 3.786 -7.143
50 13 3.846 -7.692 53 15 3.533 -6.667
50 14 3.571 -7.143 53 16 3.313 -6.250
50 15 3.333 -6.667 53 17 3.118 -5.882
50 16 3.125 -6.250 39 13 3.000 -3.774
34 11 3.091 -1.091 53 18 2.944 -1.852
50 17 2.941 -4.844 53 19 2.789 -5.263
34 12 2.833 -3.667 39 14 2.786 -0.135
50 19 2.632 -7.121 39 15 2.600 -6.667
34 13 2.615 -0.615 53 21 2.524 -2.930
34 14 2.429 -7.143 39 16 2.438 -3.420
50 21 2.381 -1.961 53 23 2.304 -5.463
34 15 2.267 -4.800 39 17 2.294 -0.444
50 23 2.174 -4.092 39 18 2.167 -5.556
34 16 2.125 -2.250 53 25 2.120 -2.154
34 17 2.000 -5.882 39 19 2.053 -3.178
34 19 1.789 -10.526 39 21 1.857 -9.524
34 21 1.619 -9.524 39 23 1.696 -8.696
34 23 1.478 -8.696 39 25 1.560 -8.000

 

2008-09-06 2:34 PM
in reply to: #1654990

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Subject: RE: Why a 12/25 cassette when...
I ride a 53 with a 12-25 in the back and I really wish I had a 11-23 instead. Just would need to buy 3 to make life easy. So I haven't yet.


2008-09-06 2:59 PM
in reply to: #1654990

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Subject: RE: Why a 12/25 cassette when...
I was in college at CU Boulder and I always rode with a 52/42 and the largest cog was a 21. We would ride up to 10,000 feet in the rockies. But those days are long gone for me. After climbing in the Alps for 2 weeks in my 40s I was glad to have a 53/39 - 13/26 set up. Even with that my mountain goat friend (145lbs and living in Durango) was riding with a triple and spun past me so fast I felt I should throw my bike down Ventoux.
2008-09-06 6:59 PM
in reply to: #1655017

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Subject: RE: Why a 12/25 cassette when...
E=H2O - 2008-09-06 12:44 PM  That doesn't make it for me. I need a setup for ALL hills. :-)

53/39 with an 11-23 seems to work fine for me for that .......

2008-09-07 8:52 PM
in reply to: #1654990

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Subject: RE: Why a 12/25 cassette when...
I like a 12-27 cassette for the steep uphills.  I frequently use the granny gear on steep uphills, but rarely need the additional gearing at 35-40 mph.
2008-09-07 11:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Why a 12/25 cassette when...

The most common gearings are 11-23 and 12-25.

For your situation, sounds like your current pairing doesn't work too well because of terrain, and effort. Great. So go 11-25. Simple, easy solution. Lots of gears, and a pretty good top end.

Btw, the only advantage a 13-25 will provide you is closer gear ratios, sorta, and an EASIER top end?!  I don't get it. IMHO, you always want the 11 on a downhill, and you (most) always want the 25 for an uphill.

On the downside, if you ride a 13 on the downhill, you could gear out, AND lose distance and time. I know of no triathletes that ride a 13, unless they have a triple.

2008-09-08 12:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Why a 12/25 cassette when...
rkreuser - 2008-09-07 9:00 PM

I know of no triathletes that ride a 13, unless they have a triple.

 I guess that's me. :-) However, over the years I have come to learn to be a very goo descender. I use a low profile (road bike) tuck position developed over years decending in the mountains. I go into it as soon as I spin out.  NO NONE has ever passed me going down hill. And I fly past many people. The one criticism that is valid is that holding a tight tuck uses a lot of energy. But I do get a kick watching people having to pass me a second or third time going uphill only to have me pass them going down hill. I love going fast downhill. 



2008-09-08 5:55 AM
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Subject: RE: Why a 12/25 cassette when...
E=H2O - 2008-09-08 1:34 AM
rkreuser - 2008-09-07 9:00 PM

I know of no triathletes that ride a 13, unless they have a triple.

 I guess that's me. :-) However, over the years I have come to learn to be a very goo descender. I use a low profile (road bike) tuck position developed over years decending in the mountains. I go into it as soon as I spin out.  NO NONE has ever passed me going down hill. And I fly past many people. The one criticism that is valid is that holding a tight tuck uses a lot of energy. But I do get a kick watching people having to pass me a second or third time going uphill only to have me pass them going down hill. I love going fast downhill. 

And a 13 will not really let you do that ........ I regularly hit 35 - 40 on most of my rides on downhills and as much as 42 a lot.  Which in my 53/11 is going pretty hard at around 100 rpm.  Can't do that with a 13 ...... especially if you're running a 50 compact.

2008-09-08 7:08 AM
in reply to: #1657375

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Subject: RE: Why a 12/25 cassette when...

Thanks for the feedback all. 

But the big thing is this, I live on the FL east coast, my regular "hills" are 1/4 mile long ups and downs on the couple 4-5% grade Causeway bridges we have here with or without a decent tail-headwind.  I have been using my existing OEM 12-23 for everything and have only used the 53/12 once in a race (20-30 mph tailwind & down a bridge) for a total of 1.5 miles, and a handful of times training only for short distances, so for my situation (IMHO) it is a wasted gear.  Now I've used the 39/23 way more and in a Clermont (central FL) race in 06 I could have used a 25 to 27 gear but not the top end.  As I stated in the OP, ~33 mph top end (53-13) was fine for me, I'll rest and stay low the rest of the way!

If I lived in an area that had sustainable downhill runs or was looking at a course like LP, yes a 12-25 or compact/11-23 would probably the ticket.  I guess I'm just being over analytical about it like I usually am!

2008-09-08 11:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Why a 12/25 cassette when...
Daremo - 2008-09-08 3:55 AM
E=H2O - 2008-09-08 1:34 AM
rkreuser - 2008-09-07 9:00 PM

I know of no triathletes that ride a 13, unless they have a triple.

 I guess that's me. :-) However, over the years I have come to learn to be a very goo descender. I use a low profile (road bike) tuck position developed over years decending in the mountains. I go into it as soon as I spin out.  NO NONE has ever passed me going down hill. And I fly past many people. The one criticism that is valid is that holding a tight tuck uses a lot of energy. But I do get a kick watching people having to pass me a second or third time going uphill only to have me pass them going down hill. I love going fast downhill. 

And a 13 will not really let you do that ........ I regularly hit 35 - 40 on most of my rides on downhills and as much as 42 a lot.  Which in my 53/11 is going pretty hard at around 100 rpm.  Can't do that with a 13 ...... especially if you're running a 50 compact.

 You are right, there is no way I can hit those on gentle downhills. But so long as the hill (or mountain) has broad sweeping turns (or is straight) I easily blow past 40 mph. I will admit that even on perfectly trued wheels, I sit up at 55. I just don't have the nerves for anything faster.

2008-09-08 11:59 AM
in reply to: #1658127

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Subject: RE: Why a 12/25 cassette when...

 "You are right, there is no way I can hit those on gentle downhills. But so long as the hill (or mountain) has broad sweeping turns (or is straight) I easily blow past 40 mph. I will admit that even on perfectly trued wheels, I sit up at 55. I just don't have the nerves for anything faster."

I get nervous on my hills too, but for a different reason.  I top out on my local steepest downgrade at 48mph.  Speed is ok, but I live in a semi-rural area, so I am just waiting for a car to come out of a driveway (nothing but woods, so if they don't look carefully...oops) or even more of a thought to me, since I ride in the late afternoon/early evening is having a deer cross paths with me.  I've had a couple run beside me along the road (they keep up for a suprisingly log time), but I am just waiting for the fateful day when one takes a left turn or the whole herd does.  There are 17k deer/car accidents in NJ every year, with minor injuries at most (at least to the people) usually.  I think a road-bike, almost Clydesdale, deer accident wouldn't be pretty for all involved.



Edited by kagoscuba 2008-09-08 12:01 PM
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