General Discussion Triathlon Talk » HR frustration--am I in danger? Rss Feed  
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2005-02-20 6:22 PM

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Plano, TX
Subject: HR frustration--am I in danger?
After studying many of the treads on heart rates and buying my first monitor, I am thoroughly depressed. I am either incredibly out shape or incredibly unusual. My heart rate is much higher than the average, and if I used the formulas proposed on this and other sites, I'd couldn't get past walkingl! Just strolling, my heart rate is over 100, and a VERY slow jog gets me well over 180. Today my workout was running. The first mile had an avg of 173 and max of 187, and my second mile had an avg of 186 with a max of 191. The third mile was similar. I also remember my heart rate being high when I did aerobics in college, many years ago.

I must point out I am not one pound overweight, and I have been swimming laps for 30 minutes once a week and doing yoga for well over 6 months, so I am not exactly a couch potato either. I am only 30 years old. I have been training with triathlon goals for 3 weeks now, and the first race I want to do is May 1st. Is this doable at all? It is a sprint distance race with a shorter than average swim. I would also like to complete the Danskin sprint on June 12.

I hope my goals are realistic as I have a small window of opportunity. We will be trying for our second child this summer, and trianing through my pregnancy is unrealistic. I want to get in the best shape possible before I put my body through pregnancy again, and I thought a triathlon would be an amazing achievment. My heart rate has me concerned that I am putting myself in danger trying to train. Are there people out there that "just have high heart rates" or am I really that out of shape? How can I tell the difference?


2005-02-20 6:28 PM
in reply to: #120179

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Champion
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Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: HR frustration--am I in danger?
All I can say as someone who had open heart surgery four years ago is to get to your doctor and discuss it with him.

Mark
2005-02-20 6:35 PM
in reply to: #120179

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Subject: RE: HR frustration--am I in danger?

Check your route for any power lines, cell phone antennae, radar dishes, radio repeaters or antennae, and other potential sources of noise.  Did you take a radio or MP3 player along?  Cell phone?  Did you pass anyone that was talking on a cell phone?  Were you running with someone else that had an HRM?  Is it possible you passed someone who had an HRM?

Is the HR strap adjusted properly?  Snug, but not too tight?  Did you put any moisture under the pickups (besides sweat)?  Where did you locate the strap?

I've been fighting a lot of high readings on my HRM the previous few months, and I've found 1) the strap was too tight, and sitting improperly on my ribcage, and 2) I pass under some power lines that had previously been hidden from view by trees.  The HRM started registering high about the time the leaves had fallen.  Now that I've made some minor adjustments, the HRM registers much more accurately.

Now, as far as if your race is doable - for your first race I wouldn't even bother with the HRM.  Go by feel.  The first one is all about finishing.  I train with my HRM, but I race about 50% of my races with it.  I can feel when my body needs to back off a bit, and when I can push a little more.  How do you FEEL when you see the HR peaking?  If you feel fine (AND your doctor says your OK!), I'd think that you are picking up interference with your receiver.

2005-02-20 6:36 PM
in reply to: #120179

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Subject: RE: HR frustration--am I in danger?
I would get a checkup if you are worried. Also, look at things in your life. Are you under alot of stress, do you drink, etc. When I was in the military I went through a phase where my heartrate was very high (over 100 bpm at rest) Above 200 when running. My blood pressure was also high. I was having constant chest pains. It ultimately boiled down to the fact that I did not like who I was working under and it was stressing me out to the max, combine that with being terrible drinker it was killing me. I finally told my 1sgt that it was either my boss or me leaving and I didn't care which one it was. My 1sgt kicked the platoon sgt. out of my platoon and within two days (no joke) my chest pains were all but gone and my HR and blood pressure started to improve tremendously. I also quit drinking for about 6 months right after that time and then I really saw an improvement.
2005-02-20 7:03 PM
in reply to: #120179

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Subject: RE: HR frustration--am I in danger?

I'll admit that, like you, I have expressed more than my share of angst over my HRM.

Your question, however, lacks some essential information before I think anyone can comment on your situation...  what are you using as your maximum heart rate?  220-age would give you 190 as a predicted HRmax, but if you hit 191 on a "jog" then I suspect that your maximal heart rate is higher than 190.  When I approach my predicted HRmax, I feel... bad (gigantic understatement).  How did you feel at 191?  Was that absoloutely the largest possible effort you can imaging putting out? 

I suspect that for reasons you or I may never understand, your HRmax is greater than that predicted by your age.

As I understand the use of HR training, it is simply a tool that allows you to better assess the effort of your workout so that you can vary your training.  It helps to ensure that long-slow is just that, and that speedwork (if you choose that particular type of torture) is of sufficient stress to help raise your lactate threshold.

I trained without the HRM for all of last year.  Looking back at my log, based on this year's data with the new HRM, I deduced that for nearly every running workout, I was pushing myself to or just below my LT.  By the end of 2004, I could run 5 miles much faster than when I started, but seemed to hit the ceiling at that distance.  Now that the HRM has allowed me to slow things down, my milage has (nearly) effortlessly increased -- and my ego allows the slower pace because the HRM shows that the effort is of sufficient stress to result in better aerobic fitness.  And I may be inserting some placebo effect, but it appears to me that I am beginning to be able to run a little faster while still keeping the HR below 80% max -- achieving my ultimate goal of efficiency: running as fast or faster with less effort/energy expended (ie: at a lower HR)

Your numbers, your zones, your HRmax, they are what they are.  It's your physiology and you're stuck with it -- HRmax, according to my reading and understanding, is rooted in genetics and is not particularly trainable.  Your job is to try and figure out what your HRmax is (and I predict its likely higher than 190 if you can hit it on a regular run) so that you can determine which zones you should be running in.

I do predict that when you start training in 70-80% or 65-75% to try and build endurance and aerobic fitness, you'll find that you're running slower than you intend: so far a nearly universal finding in this forum.  I'd try not to read into the values a subjective measure of fit / unfit, but rather a measure of where you are along the efficiency continuum and use them to assist in ensuring the workout that you intend to do (long/slow, interval, tempo) is actually what you achieve in your goal of improving that efficiency.

I'm new at all this as well, so its probable that everything I've just said, you've already read.


"Are you in danger?" the only dangerous hypothesis I can generate is that your higher-than-expected heart rate is due to some tachy-dysrhythmia (fast abnormal heart rhythm) that you universally develop while exercising.  Its very hard for me to reasonably accept this hypothesis if you are as active as you report and do not feel ill (as one would expect if the faster HR were due to a pathologic condition) while under effort at HR 191.  If you are truly concerned that this high HR is abnormal (and especially if you develop chest pain, shortness of breath, lightheadedness, passing out while at this HR) then, naturally, a visit to your favorite medical provider is in order post-haste.



Edited by fraggle 2005-02-20 7:05 PM
2005-02-20 7:32 PM
in reply to: #120179

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Subject: RE: HR frustration--am I in danger?
Hearts are like shoe sizes... some people have big feet... some have small feet... heart sizes vary between individuals and as a result HR's can vary significantly. Smaller Hearts typically will need to beat more times per minute to generate the same volume of blood. Does this mean your out of shape... Nope. It simply means you need to determine what is YOUR aerobic range (i.e., aerobic HR range) for proper training.

My suggestion is to find your proper Aerobic threshold range... this means you need to not use the standard/average methods (and, IMO formulas are not the best method). There are many methods that can be used to determine this LT. Try them all... then use that which seems the most practical in matching your PE to your aerobic training range.

The only thing I can say is that is the aerobic training range is typically much lower than you expect. Which means that walking or barely running to maintain this aerobic training range is a common complaint when base building. PE is very low when you are base training properly. Going slow to get fast is a real aspect of base training. The only mistake typically made by those doing base training training is that they do not significantly increase volume (i.e., distances done at low intensity).

Fitness level (as related to HR's), is (by some) actually the difference between resting HR and max. HR. Max. HR by itself does not tell the whole story. The wider the difference, the better the fitness level.

FWIW Joe Moya

BTW, what I have posted is assuming you do not experience any dizzyness or pain as a result of the high HR's.

Edited by Joe M 2005-02-20 7:36 PM


2005-02-20 8:18 PM
in reply to: #120179

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Master
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Subject: RE: HR frustration--am I in danger?
I'd first rule out the HR monitor is working correctly.  Take your pulse manually and compare to HR monitor.  Real easy and simple to do.  Also, my HR monitor will give crazy numbers if I do not wet the two sensors with water before putting it on.  Besides that, if there's concern, see your doc.  Lots of medications can screw with your heart rate.  For some reason I can swim like crazy without getting the HR up significantly, but get me on the road running and the HR skyrockets.
2005-02-20 9:08 PM
in reply to: #120179

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Subject: RE: HR frustration--am I in danger?
It all depends. I'm 24 yrs old. Was a collegiate athlete (rowing). While in college, I tried to give blood and couldn't b/c my resting HR was over 100.

I went to the doctor last August and it was still high, so I was sent to the cardiologist and I'm normal. Just have a high heart rate. I went for a walk/jog today and my HR didn't drop below 170. (I've been sick, hence the walking). but it usually goes to 195 while training.

So, don't stress. But check it out to be safe.
2005-02-21 12:24 PM
in reply to: #120179

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Subject: RE: HR frustration--am I in danger?
bbarron - 2005-02-20 6:22 PM

After studying many of the treads on heart rates and buying my first monitor, I am thoroughly depressed. I am either incredibly out shape or incredibly unusual. My heart rate is much higher than the average, and if I used the formulas proposed on this and other sites, I'd couldn't get past walkingl! Just strolling, my heart rate is over 100, and a VERY slow jog gets me well over 180. Today my workout was running. The first mile had an avg of 173 and max of 187, and my second mile had an avg of 186 with a max of 191. The third mile was similar. I also remember my heart rate being high when I did aerobics in college, many years ago.

I must point out I am not one pound overweight, and I have been swimming laps for 30 minutes once a week and doing yoga for well over 6 months, so I am not exactly a couch potato either. I am only 30 years old. I have been training with triathlon goals for 3 weeks now, and the first race I want to do is May 1st. Is this doable at all? It is a sprint distance race with a shorter than average swim. I would also like to complete the Danskin sprint on June 12.

I hope my goals are realistic as I have a small window of opportunity. We will be trying for our second child this summer, and trianing through my pregnancy is unrealistic. I want to get in the best shape possible before I put my body through pregnancy again, and I thought a triathlon would be an amazing achievment. My heart rate has me concerned that I am putting myself in danger trying to train. Are there people out there that "just have high heart rates" or am I really that out of shape? How can I tell the difference?


I just have a high heart rate. I'm at 70 lying in bed with my eyes closed. (Well, I open them to look.) I'm at 100 walking around in the kitchen. I find that I can jog for as long as I want if I keep my HR under 170, but when it gets up to around 190 or over I want to slow down very soon. (I use 190 for brief anaerobic intervals.) I'm 40 years old.

What the HR monitor has told me is that I have to go slow. Very slow. Like 4.0 mph jogging to stay in my aerobic zone. I don't know yet if I will increase my speed with training, but I do know that I drastically increase my distance by slowing down to keep under 170.

The other thing my HR monitor shows is that my heart rate drops quite quickly when I stop exerting. I am no cardiologist but I recall hearing that recovery rate is important, too. I'm comforted by that. I've brought up my fast resting heart rate to doctors before (I'll be at 90 sitting calmly) and they shrug it off. As I don't feel unwell (far from it) I haven't bothered to worry about it.

Except one niggly little fear: sometimes I wonder if a heart only has so many beats in it and I'm using my up with my fast rate. Silly, probably.... as it'll probably turn out that the muscle stays strongest when used. :-)

Gwendal
2005-02-21 12:27 PM
in reply to: #120225

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Subject: RE: HR frustration--am I in danger?
Christie - 2005-02-20 9:08 PM

I went to the doctor last August and it was still high, so I was sent to the cardiologist and I'm normal. Just have a high heart rate.


It is nice when they tell you that, isn't it? I was jogging on the treadmill on Saturday and a friend got on the treadmill next to me. A cool thing about my Polar HRM is that it registers on the treadmill screen and so my heart rate (hovering around 170) was showing up in big numbers. My friend was an EMT for 15 years and he was totally freaked. But I was chatting with him and not out of breath and happily jogging along and it was really apparent that I just was not in trouble. But his freaking out did sort of unnerve me.

Gwendal
2005-02-21 12:31 PM
in reply to: #120439

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Subject: RE: HR frustration--am I in danger?
yeah, I got it checked b/c my coach wasn't comfortable giving me my max HR at 190 while training. I think the meds i take for ADD have a lot to do with it. But now i know i don't have a murmur or anything. they hooked me up to a 24 hr monitor. that was fun.


2005-02-21 4:34 PM
in reply to: #120443

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Subject: RE: HR frustration--am I in danger?
Meds for ADD, ironically enough, are stimulants. They will definatley make your heart go faster. If you're able to workout for tri diligently 5 times a week and play soccer weekly it sounds like you're very focused to me. Either your meds work great, or you could get by without them?
2005-02-21 6:06 PM
in reply to: #120179

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Subject: RE: HR frustration--am I in danger?
It sounds to me like you need to establish your real maxHR. Obviously to generic formulas don't apply to you very well. You said that you feel like you could hold 170bpm for as long as you want. That's typically how it feels to be at about 75% maxHR for an "average" person. Working backwards that would suggest you have a maxHR while running of 220+. You say that even jogging puts out at 190+ so it isn't hard to believe that you could easily max well over 200bpm. Safest thing would be to go see a cardiologist and have a stress test. They'll put you on a treadmill with all kinds of monitors and have you go through a series of tests and see how your heart responds. You'll be able to find out just how high your HR goes in a very safe and controlled environment...and the docs will also be able to tell you if you have any problems or are just an unusual individual.
2005-02-21 6:38 PM
in reply to: #120554

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Subject: RE: HR frustration--am I in danger?
Adventure Bear,
Soccer in high school. Rowing in College. I graduated in '02. I needed a goal to focus my excess energy now that I'm not on a structured team, hence triathlons.
I've been on ADD meds since I was 10. so thats 14 years now. And no, I don't think I could get by w/o them. Most boys grow out of ADD, but not girls. So I'll probably be a "druggie" for life. Although I'm working on lowering my dosage as we speak actually.

TH3_FRB,
I did go to a heart doc. Cooper Clinic first for the treadmill and bike stress tests, then on to a specialist, just to be safe. I had to wear a monitor w/ about 8 wires stuck all over my chest for 24 hrs. I felt really cool, lemme tell ya. Thats when they determined the high heart rate thing. I never found out my actual max. And I like to keep it under 200, just to be safe. Even though my Max could be like you said, 220.
2005-02-21 6:41 PM
in reply to: #120607

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Subject: RE: HR frustration--am I in danger?
my HR at this moment is 114. so, i'm just weird.
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