General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark? Rss Feed  
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2008-10-21 10:00 PM

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Subject: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?

I completed my first IM at Louisville and my main goal was to finish feeling positive, which I did.  My total time was 14:08 and I was pretty happy with that.  I would say my average training week was about 10-11 hours while balancing family and work.  

 I am signed up for IM Louisville again in 2009 and want to be in the 12 hour mark...maybe the top end off the 11 hour mark if possible.  Realistic?

 What are some of the things I can do during the off season to prepare for my base training which will start in FEB?

 I know to work on my limiter but for those who have meet that time goal I am looking for some insight or questions that I can reflect on to get ready for my time goal.

 

 Thanks!

 



Edited by joerigg 2008-10-21 10:11 PM


2008-10-21 11:00 PM
in reply to: #1758189

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Regular
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PA
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?

No advice but good luck on your goal, very ambitious!  I guess the heat & humidity doesnt affect you much?  I'm just hoping to finish IMKY next year Wink

2008-10-21 11:45 PM
in reply to: #1758189

Champion
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No excuses!
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?
Use your logs on here. I checked but there is not much in there. My best guess (as it is in most cases) bike fitness. Log the hours in the saddle. Biggest portion of the race and if you are strong there it will make the run easier.
2008-10-22 12:30 AM
in reply to: #1758189

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2008-10-22 6:33 AM
in reply to: #1758189

Veteran
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Calgary, Alberta
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?

I went from 13:43 at IMC 2007 to 11:01 at IMC 2008, so can confirm its possible. I did a lot of things differently, so its hard to know where the credit should go, but...my training increased a fair bit (up to about 20 hours a week), I learned how to run and swim properly (I thought I knew how to do this), I had a very involved coach, and my nutrition changed dramatically. It took a pretty big change in committment level, and I THOUGHT I was very committed in 2007.

Happy training!

2008-10-22 6:34 AM
in reply to: #1758189

Veteran
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Calgary, Alberta
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?
Also, I'd say start training before FEB if you can swing it!


2008-10-22 7:26 AM
in reply to: #1758189

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?
Work relentlessly on your limiters now in the offseason. A chain in only as strong as it's weakest link. IOW if your swim sucks it impacts on your bike and run. You can get away in a shorter distance race having a weak leg but IMO too long a day in IM to get away with a limiter. Good luck!!!

Edited by jamesG 2008-10-22 7:26 AM
2008-10-22 7:27 AM
in reply to: #1758189

Champion
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Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?

2:09 improvement is pretty huge.

Go for it for sure...but don't be narrowly focused on that so that is takes away the fun of the training and event. If you improve 1:45 or 1:00 you still need to have a great feeling of accomplshment. 

Weather and a whole lot of factors can come into play on race day. 

I have had this tendency to get stuck on time improvements in the past and have found it can really crush me mentally if I don't hit them..so I share from experience. It may be totally different for you though.

I'm doing my second IM next year and yes I want to improve but trying to set no specific goals.

2008-10-22 8:39 AM
in reply to: #1758189

Expert
762
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Missouri
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?

As said before, you need to do a better job on your logs and race reports so we can know what you have done and what you are doing.  With that said here are my suggestions.

  1. If you weigh more than you should, then lose weight.
  2. Bike a ton and then bike some more, when you are tired of biking, bike some more.
  3. Lay down a strong run foundation this winter. 
  4. If swim is a weak point, then work on form and function in the water.  You can do this without spending hours upon hours in the pool, find a good swim coach and work on your technique. 
  5. Bike some more
  6. Eat to train, don't train to eat.  (I have trouble with this one)
  7. Have fun and then bike some more. 

In 2007 IMCDA I went 13 hours 35 minutes or something like that.  In 2008 IMCDA I went 11 hours 27minutes.  True I did have a major mechanical on the bike in 2007, but I weighed 10lbs less in 2008 and my run time went down by 20 minutes.  I also became a much better cyclist in 2008 by spending hours upon hours on the trainer last winter. 

Oh. . I almost forgot. . Bike some more. 

2008-10-22 8:42 AM
in reply to: #1758189

Champion
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Dallas, TX
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?
joerigg - 2008-10-21 10:00 PM
I would say my average training week was about 10-11 hours while balancing family and work.  


I guess the real question would be this... are you able to train more than 10-11 hours a week and still balance family and work?

Are your wife and kids willing to give up time with you, so you can cross the finish line in 12 hours?

I'm no expert at being fast, but I do know that you gotta train a lot more than 10-11 hours a week to get fast. Like someone else mentioned, you will need to ramp up to around 20 hours a week.

Not sure how your bike is, but for me to just finish the 112 miles in Kentucky in 7 hours, my coach had me start on my cycling in January. By February I was riding 3-4 hour rides... and when the weather was bad that was on the trainer.

You might also want to look at getting a coach to help you achieve your time goals.

2008-10-22 8:48 AM
in reply to: #1758189

Champion
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Albuquerque, New Mexico
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?

12 hours is my aggressive (all the planets line up, etc. ) goal for IMCdA (my first) next June. 

How do you see the breakdown between swim, bike, run, and transitions to get a 12-hour finish?  How big are the gaps between your '08 results and your '09 goals? 

For me, I'm training towards a 1:15 swim, a 6:00 bike, and a 4:30 run with 0:15 for transitions.  The bike will be the challenge and what really makes this the aggressive goal.  I'll need to average 19-21 mph for my training rides next spring to be close to 19 mph for the race.  I want to get my run pace down to 9 m/m on my long runs this winter (and spring) while the 4:30 works out to about 10 m/m. 



2008-10-22 9:05 AM
in reply to: #1758189

over a barrier
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?
To the OP: If you're training 10-11 a week as limited by life. You have to make those sessions count. They need to have more intenstity than if you're training 15 hrs. Simply put, you need to Work more during your training sessions. I'm doing endurancenation.us out season training plans to get ready for the season.

Weekly Work Load = Frequency x Volume x Intensity

It would appear your limited by Frequency and volume (time). So you work Intensity.

Start logging as well - it helps
2008-10-22 9:15 AM
in reply to: #1758189

Pro
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St Charles, IL
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?

The biggest factor I can see from your (lack of) logs is consistency year round.

If you want to improve, you have to work consistently towards it.  That's not saying you need to do 15 hours weeks year-round, but long periods where you've done nothing ( or at least logged nothing ) is not going to get you to where you want to be.

So, of the things you can do, number 1 is not to have an off-season that goes until February.  Swim, bike, and run starting now.



Edited by coredump 2008-10-22 9:16 AM
2008-10-22 11:20 AM
in reply to: #1758189

Not a Coach
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Media, PA
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?
Consistency & frequency.  Start now.
2008-10-22 12:12 PM
in reply to: #1758389

over a barrier
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?
ch2626 - 2008-10-22 6:33 AM

I went from 13:43 at IMC 2007 to 11:01 at IMC 2008, so can confirm its possible. I did a lot of things differently, so its hard to know where the credit should go, but...my training increased a fair bit (up to about 20 hours a week), I learned how to run and swim properly (I thought I knew how to do this), I had a very involved coach, and my nutrition changed dramatically. It took a pretty big change in committment level, and I THOUGHT I was very committed in 2007.

Happy training!



Hijack on

That is awesome improvement - I'm looking into doing something similiar - NICE!!!

Hijack off
2008-10-22 12:30 PM
in reply to: #1758189

Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?

I dropped 2:45 (13:06 in 2006 IMAZ to 10:21 in 007 IMFL), so it can definitely be done.  I love to run, and last year leading up to IMFL I was dealing with a running injury which didn't effect my biking, so I put all of my running training hours into my bike.  Obviously that did wonders for my bike fitness.  Not sure if that was the answer or not.  I'll know more here in a week and a half as I have been able to run this year and have done the running hours and kept the bike hours where my plan has them.  If the bike kills me like in IMAZ, I am definitely following a more bike focused plan for 2009 IMCDA.

 Best of luck and as mentioned above, if you can start training earlier, do it for sure.



2008-10-22 12:49 PM
in reply to: #1758189

Elite
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Chicago
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?

it really depends on your background and threshold for pain.  consistency is the obvious and most common formula for resulting in improved times, but i'm not consistent and cherish my time "off"

here's how my sub 12 played out:

IMWI 05 13:17

IMAZ 06 12:46

(no triathlons in 2007)

IMKY 08 13:16

IMWI 08 11:38

so what does that mean for you?  not really sure.  but what it meant for me is that i kept my head on straight and when I started feeling burnt out by "trying" to be consistent on the off-season I switched to something i liked.

my advice, simply from personal experience, is to stay "active" by setting goals but if you're feeling burnt out in the off-season or early in the season...recheck your compass and recalibrate.

keeping your mind in the game is more important than keeping your body in the game because since your head is attached to your body; your body goes where your mind takes it.

what i did in the off-season to prepare for the IM ramp up was I picked a march race (half marathon); which kept me running in 2 degree temps in january...then when march came along and it was time to begin I was good to go.

i worked on my limiter between march and game day.



Edited by Steve- 2008-10-22 12:51 PM
2008-10-22 3:25 PM
in reply to: #1758189

Lethbridge, Alberta
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?
As others have noted above, it can be done. I'm actually trying for something similar. My time was close to yours for my first IM this past season. I'm happy enough with the time, but have some excuses and consider the race to be 'unfinished business' at this point.

Do you know where you intend to make up the time, and what splits you're aiming for to hit 12? I remember reading here somewhere that a goal without a plan is just a wish. If you really want to do 12, you're going to have to figure out what it will take. Then decide for yourself if that's realistic given your current situation and the rest of your life. Nothing wrong with aiming high though and there are some good suggestions here. Train well, and remember that half the battle is getting to the starting line healthy. Have fun!
2008-10-24 2:24 PM
in reply to: #1759883

Expert
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Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?
Micawber - 2008-10-22 3:25 PM

Do you know where you intend to make up the time, and what splits you're aiming for to hit 12? I remember reading here somewhere that a goal without a plan is just a wish. If you really want to do 12, you're going to have to figure out what it will take. Then decide for yourself if that's realistic given your current situation and the rest of your life. Nothing wrong with aiming high though and there are some good suggestions here. Train well, and remember that half the battle is getting to the starting line healthy. Have fun!


The easy/vague answer is Volume and Time. Get your volume up and keep it there over a long period of time (talking in years, not days), but to piggy-back off of the above thought, You have to dial in your goal splits so you know where you need to train.
Taking some liberties here:
if you split 1:20sw, 6:10 bike, 4:45 run, then you finish around 12:15 or so that means you need to train towards swimming comfortably at 2min per 100, 18.2 mph on the bike and about a 10:50 mile running. I have no idea where your strengths lie but you get the idea. Put it on paper and get your pace to the point that the splits are pretty easy to obtain. Of course there are a ton of other variables like nutrition, race conditions, a little luck (its a long day!), etc but you get the idea.
2008-10-26 8:18 AM
in reply to: #1758189

Iron Donkey
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Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?

Same goal here for IM Moo '09!

Working with a coach right NOW doing base training and HR monitoring.  I'm looking into more swimming - my delimeter - and hopefully a swim coach since the main coach doesn't have that aspect training part.  Biking-wise - lots of it over the IM Moo course throughout the season to work on those hills!

Nutrition - that's going to take a little work.

MOST IMPORTANT OTHER THING THAN THE TRAINING - BALANCE!!!  If you can't balance your training, rest, family, and all other aspects, one will affect the other.

Good luck!!

2008-10-26 8:44 AM
in reply to: #1758189

Champion
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NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?

Don't take the next 3 months off, and do all of your training at race pace or faster.

I am training for a marathon this March, and my winter training is averaging around 10 hours a week.  5 hours of running, ramping up up to 8 hours + bike, swim & strength training.

(I need to log them more consistently, I know, but I do the workouts consistently which is more important).



2008-10-29 11:23 PM
in reply to: #1758189

Veteran
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Huntington Beach
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?
Get a coach and tell him/her you want to break 12 hours. Do what they say. You will break 12 hours.
2008-11-17 1:22 PM
in reply to: #1766345

Iron Donkey
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Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?
pga_mike - 2008-10-26 8:44 AM

Don't take the next 3 months off, and do all of your training at race pace or faster.

....

WHA??  Only if you want the O.P. to get injured.

2008-11-17 2:04 PM
in reply to: #1812675

Not a Coach
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Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?
1stTimeTri - 2008-11-17 2:22 PM
pga_mike - 2008-10-26 8:44 AM

Don't take the next 3 months off, and do all of your training at race pace or faster.

....

WHA??  Only if you want the O.P. to get injured.

Actually, since we're talking about IM race pace, this advice is not totally out there.

2008-11-19 7:32 PM
in reply to: #1758189


8763
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Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: Help Me Break the 12 Hour Mark?

I agree with consistency, work on your limiters and start LONG before Feb 1st. Probably Dec 1. When your competition is sleeping you are training and when they are training, you are training. It takes work and dedication. That means consistency and consistency is not taking 2-3 months off. That's really a bigger issue to me. Even if you trained 5 hours a week for those 2-3 months it would benefit you.

Also, join the Gold Forum and that's probably worth an hour right there! And if you think I'm kidding, I'm not. You think its hard to get a guy to take an hour off their time when they did a 10:50 in IMAZ (flat, cool and no wind in 2006) and they were racing IMCDA (hilly, hot and much harder). Well, we did it - a 9:49 two years later. It took a lot of hard work. My point is, taking someone with a 14:08 and asking to go sub 12:00 is actually usually not that difficult if they are willing to be consistent.

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