Higher cadence versus higher gear (Page 2)

Excellent question; I've been wanting to ask this for the last few weeks!! I'm glad my hunch was right; I'll keep going with a lower gear and higher cadence.

High cadence AND high gear!

Spinning high cadences is way better for your knees than hammering big gears.

Hi Guys,

My first non-accident related post. I try and only post when I think I have something valuable to add. This seems to be a thread that I might be able to contribute to. But first, a quick disclosure:

The accident thread headline was "IM coach and elite hit..." and I've never considered myself elite. I'm just and age grouper. The headline was correct that I am an IM coach, so many of my training principles and training protocols are geared (pardon the pun) for IM training.

Re: Cadence. It seems like most of the posters seem to agree that a higher cadence is more efficient than a lower cadence with a bigger gear and with the exception a few highly trained individuals I found the opposite to be true. A bigger gear simply produces more power with a lower heart rate. However, it also requires muscular endurance to sustain that effort for an extended period of time.

Big Gear Strength Training Sessions are required to develop this skill, but once developed, you'll ride at a higher power output with a lower heart rate saving more for the run.

Spinning at a high cadence places a great demands on your aerobic endurance and is very difficult to sustain high power outputs (speed). For most age groupers aerobic endurance is their main limiter and would benefit by lower their hr on the bike and saving it for the run.

Hope this helps, Mitch

What Charlie said!! Then you go FAAAASSSTT!!

I was pushing big gears at STP last year and my left knee was shot by the time I crossed the Columbia. I have been spinning for over a year now, working on cadences between 100-120. I'm counting on making it into Portland before the beer tent closes this year

What kind of a cadence do YOU tend to recommend?

So are you advocating mashing over spinning? I see a controversy brewing. I'd really like to hear Mike Ricci and Rich Strauss weigh in on this.

The optimum cadence depends on your riding style and efficiency. You’ll gravitate to the gear and cadence that you’re most comfortable with, but the original question posed by Rob was what’s better a high or “more reasonable” cadence.

Another thought: Many posters reported being more comfortable spinning at a high cadence, which I won’t argue with. But, you’re also probably going slower. Sore knees and legs are simply the result of pushing a bigger gear without proper trainer. I’m confident that BG will force the adaptation and you’ll get used to pushing a bigger gear. (Remember, a key point that I’m making is that your hr will be lower and you’ll be using more muscle, so you have to train accordingly). I’d be happy to talk about BG workouts for those that aren’t familiar with them; it’s a staple session for my athletes and me.

Getting back to the optimum cadence; BG sessions will eventually have you gravitate to a lower gear and if you have a power meter, you’ll also see high wattage outputs.

I’m not advocating mashing; mashing is a result of a poor pedal stroke and has nothing to do with what size gear you’re in.

For what it’s worth I ave 83 rpm at IMB for a 5:10 bike split and had a pretty good marathon.

Look forward to more discussion,

Mitch
Counterpart Coaching.com

That cadence is quite low for such a flat course (I'm assuming you are talking about Brazil).

I seem to do my best riding right around 95 when on the road. I feel strange when on the trainer and I'm doing less than 90. When doing power intervals on the trainer, I'm in the 100's (and crying out in pain), then I drop down to 85 in the rest phase. At first it feels good to give the legs a break, but after the first 30 seconds of recovery, it takes a lot for me to hold myself back and stay in the 80's. I naturally want to move into the 90's. This behaviour is quite different than when I first started training. When I first started, I stayed in the low 80's and moved bigger gears. I did train myself to go at a higher cadence and it is quite natural for me now. Your advice is contrary to my experience, but it doesn't make it wrong.

thx for sharing,

Chris

Mitch, the folks I bike with (bike club) taught me higher cadence and I AM faster that way but you are absolutely right my hr shoots up pretty quickly.  So I would LOVE to hear about your big gear methods too. 

Big Gear workouts are strength workouts done on the bike. Care should be taken to make sure your legs are prepared for these workouts so don’t start them too early in the off-season. I also like to go through a few cycles of preparation including single leg drills and high cadence drills. Remember, ligaments and tendons develop slower than muscle so it’s really important to take the prep work seriously.

Big Gear workouts also place additional stress on the knees, so it’s also important to ease into the sessions and not try and tackle too much too soon.

There are different protocols, but here is how I do Big Gear sessions:

A good warm up is critical so I like at least 30 minutes of easy riding before you start. The focus of Big Gear Sessions is to keep a low rpm (60 is a great starting point), the pedal stroke smooth, the hr down and the effort moderate, not hard. Big Gear workouts are for developing strength and is not intended to be an aerobic workout so keep the hr down and don’t think that just because your hr isn’t high you’re not getting a good workout (this is where a power meter comes in handy). Zone 2 is as high as you need to go. Remember one of the points I made earlier is that developing strength on the bike will allow you to ride faster with a lower hr. Big Gear sessions should be done once a week.

I recommend starting with a conserve session like:

30 min warm up, 4x 5 min of big gear w/ 2-3 min of easy spinning in between, 30 min cool down.

For IM I build these sessions to: 1 hr warm up, 3x 20 of big gear w/ 5 min easy spinning, 30 min at IM effort, 30 min cool down.

Adaptations occur quickly and you’ll see strength increase after a few weeks, you might also find yourself more comfortable in bigger gears on your regular rides.

Hope this helps,

Mitch
Counterpart Coaching.com