Other Resources My Cup of Joe » Lasik? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, the bear, DerekL, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 2
 
 
2008-12-02 9:54 AM
in reply to: #1832598

User image

Master
1920
1000500100100100100
Ann Arbor, MI
Subject: RE: Lasik?
DerekL - 2008-12-01 2:35 PM

meow-cat - 2008-12-01 2:36 AM

Burning away eye tissue with a high powered laser?

Yeah, next thing you know they're going to come out with a procedure where they slice you open, use an industrial saw to splay open your chest, rip veins out of your leg, and sew them into your heart that's been frozen to make it stop.

BTW, you don't sound that objective. Hopefully the report you quote is though.



I get your point, but a majority of medical procedures are to save a life, are they not? With Lasik, it's optional for nearly 100% of people, and most people have their vision fully corrected with contacts or glasses. Any risk at all, to your vision no less, for something that is completely unnecessary is just too much in my book.

Like I said before, my issue is that the industry accepts a lot of alterations to your vision as part of the normal 'consequences' of the procedure- things that you would never have had to deal with if you hadn't had it done. I am not talking about the worse case scenario, doctor screwed up kind of things- I'm talking about the dry eyes, imperfect vision, halo's- those consequences that aren't really tallied or understood by the industry.


2008-12-02 10:24 AM
in reply to: #1834168

User image

Champion
8936
50002000100050010010010010025
Subject: RE: Lasik?
jazz82482 - 2008-12-02 9:54 AM
DerekL - 2008-12-01 2:35 PM
meow-cat - 2008-12-01 2:36 AM

Burning away eye tissue with a high powered laser?

Yeah, next thing you know they're going to come out with a procedure where they slice you open, use an industrial saw to splay open your chest, rip veins out of your leg, and sew them into your heart that's been frozen to make it stop.

BTW, you don't sound that objective. Hopefully the report you quote is though.

I get your point, but a majority of medical procedures are to save a life, are they not? With Lasik, it's optional for nearly 100% of people, and most people have their vision fully corrected with contacts or glasses. Any risk at all, to your vision no less, for something that is completely unnecessary is just too much in my book. Like I said before, my issue is that the industry accepts a lot of alterations to your vision as part of the normal 'consequences' of the procedure- things that you would never have had to deal with if you hadn't had it done. I am not talking about the worse case scenario, doctor screwed up kind of things- I'm talking about the dry eyes, imperfect vision, halo's- those consequences that aren't really tallied or understood by the industry.

My only point was that you can make anything sound barbaric if you choose your descriptive words that way.  I wasn't really commenting on LASIK itself.

2008-12-02 10:29 AM
in reply to: #1834168

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2008-12-02 10:59 AM
in reply to: #1834267

Master
1920
1000500100100100100
Ann Arbor, MI
Subject: RE: Lasik?
PennState - 2008-12-02 11:29 AM

jazz82482 - 2008-12-02 10:54 AM
DerekL - 2008-12-01 2:35 PM
meow-cat - 2008-12-01 2:36 AM

Burning away eye tissue with a high powered laser?

Yeah, next thing you know they're going to come out with a procedure where they slice you open, use an industrial saw to splay open your chest, rip veins out of your leg, and sew them into your heart that's been frozen to make it stop.

BTW, you don't sound that objective. Hopefully the report you quote is though.

I get your point, but a majority of medical procedures are to save a life, are they not? With Lasik, it's optional for nearly 100% of people, and most people have their vision fully corrected with contacts or glasses. Any risk at all, to your vision no less, for something that is completely unnecessary is just too much in my book. Like I said before, my issue is that the industry accepts a lot of alterations to your vision as part of the normal 'consequences' of the procedure- things that you would never have had to deal with if you hadn't had it done. I am not talking about the worse case scenario, doctor screwed up kind of things- I'm talking about the dry eyes, imperfect vision, halo's- those consequences that aren't really tallied or understood by the industry.

Actually no, the majority of medical procedures are to improve the quality of life, not save it. Again, not commenting on Lasik, just pointing out that some of the most common surgeries (Hip replacement, Knee replacement, Hysterectomy, Laparoscopy) are done to improve quality, not necessarily quantity of life.



Really? The majority? I know I just pulled my first sentence out of my a$$, are you? I have no idea what is the actual majority of surgeries, but that wasn't really my point. I still think your point jives with mine, though, in that in all the examples you quoted, something is still wrong to begin with. With Lasik, for MOST people, your vision can be corrected, and it is not necessary to undergo a treatment with risks to your vision in order to see- almost everyone can already see.
2008-12-02 11:02 AM
in reply to: #1834340

Champion
8936
50002000100050010010010010025
Subject: RE: Lasik?

jazz82482 - 2008-12-02 10:59 AM Really? The majority? I know I just pulled my first sentence out of my a$$, are you? I have no idea what is the actual majority of surgeries, but that wasn't really my point. I still think your point jives with mine, though, in that in all the examples you quoted, something is still wrong to begin with. With Lasik, for MOST people, your vision can be corrected, and it is not necessary to undergo a treatment with risks to your vision in order to see- almost everyone can already see.

Sorry, I'm sorta sniping at some points rather than addressing everything.

Almost everything we do carries some risk.  Getting in your car, eating food, wearing contacts, etc.  It's all about risk/benefit and your personal tolerance for it in each situation.  I think you're completely justified in not wanting LASIK due to the risk, and I think people are completely justified in having it if they're willing to assume those risks.

2008-12-02 11:29 AM
in reply to: #1825503

Mountain View, CA
Subject: RE: Lasik?
mdg2003 - 2008-11-25 9:44 AM

 One of the best decisions I have made. My cousin went to this guy first and was happy with her results. Mrsmdg went next and then I went in. I referred a co-worker after I had mine done. So far we are all extremely pleased with the results. I have some dry eye issues. I put in OTC drops when I wake up and am good to go for the day. The halos at night were a major concern for me, but I have not experienced any. My understanding is the laser technology used can affect that outcome. Shop around because they don't all use the newest laser technology and that might affect your results. If you qualify for lasik, find someone who does interlase. It is bladeless and basically the doctor holds your head and the laser does all the work.

 I did not qualify for lasik and had PRK done instead. My cornea thickness was 1/2 a micron too thin and the Doctor would not budge on his decision. PRK is a little more invasive since they scrape off the top layer instead of making a flap like Lasik. I could not see very well for about a week while the layer grew back. My vision fluctuated for 1 year just like he said it would and has since stabilized. It was never bad enough that I needed corrective lenses to do anything. We are all happy with the results we have gotten from this guy. I don't know anyone in the Dallas - Fort Worth area, but if you come down to SA, Edward Rashid is the guy we used.



My boyfriend had the (slightly) updated version of PRK, LASEK, because of the lower probability of complications. He wouldn't recommend it unless you have a very compelling reason not to go the flap route. He had significant dryness for several months, and some starburst/halo issues that I think resolved pretty quickly, but the main reasons he recommends not doing LASEK are the pain and inconvenience. It hurt. A lot. For the first few days after the procedure he was laid up in a dark room, either in pain and very bored (couldn't watch tv, look at a computer screen, read, etc. and was very light-sensitive) or passed out on vicodin.

It's also much more drawn-out than LASIK. With LASIK you typically go home, go to sleep, and wake up with improved vision. With LASEK you're out of commission for a few days with the first eye, have an intermediate period where you only need corrective lenses for one eye, then another intermediate period where you need corrective lenses for only one eye but can't use contacts because that eye's about to be zapped, and then another period of being out of commission for a few days while your second eye recovers from being zapped. He got it over with relatively quickly, having his surgeries about a week and a half or two weeks apart, because his first eye healed quickly. His optometrist says it's usually more like a month-long process.

That said, he's very happy with the results. No more forgetting to bring/wear contacts for swimming and not being able to see a darn thing, no more needing to bring all the contacts paraphernalia when he travels, no more accidentally wearing glasses to the climbing gym or a climbing trip (risking knocking them off and having them fall hundreds or thousands of feet). At this point, about a year after having it done, he has only minimal dryness and, as far as I know, no more halo/starburst issues at night. Sometimes he rubs his eyes the wrong way and they hurt. Other than those things, no lingering complications, and his vision's about as good as mine (which is to say very good)


2008-12-02 2:07 PM
in reply to: #1834340

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2008-12-02 2:46 PM
in reply to: #1825316

Master
1920
1000500100100100100
Ann Arbor, MI
Subject: RE: Lasik?
OK, I really didn't know the % so that's interesting to know! I've also never had any type of surgery, so the idea of it does freak me out.

And Derek- I totally agree that if people can deal with the inherent risks and potential consequences, then it seems like a relatively 'safe' procedure. I just don't think there is enough information out there about what can go wrong- even acceptably wrong- especially if you just get the info from the doctors. Having dry eyes or halos or 20/40 vision is still considered a perfect procedure so when Lasik surgeons say 99% successful- they aren't counting those people. When I asked the doctors what % get any of those symptoms they have no clue- even some of the best doctor's in La Jolla that had operated on all the Chargers players....that just didn't sit right, knowing that personally, I would have a hard time dealing with adverse consequences.

On the other hand, if you really have that difficult of a time with contacts that they bother your everyday living, then sure, maybe halo's aren't so bad and you can get it done.
2008-12-03 2:55 AM
in reply to: #1834897

New user
54
2525
Subject: RE: Lasik?

jazz82482 - 2008-12-02 9:46 PM OK, I really didn't know the % so that's interesting to know! I've also never had any type of surgery, so the idea of it does freak me out. And Derek- I totally agree that if people can deal with the inherent risks and potential consequences, then it seems like a relatively 'safe' procedure. I just don't think there is enough information out there about what can go wrong- even acceptably wrong- especially if you just get the info from the doctors. Having dry eyes or halos or 20/40 vision is still considered a perfect procedure so when Lasik surgeons say 99% successful- they aren't counting those people. When I asked the doctors what % get any of those symptoms they have no clue- even some of the best doctor's in La Jolla that had operated on all the Chargers players....that just didn't sit right, knowing that personally, I would have a hard time dealing with adverse consequences. On the other hand, if you really have that difficult of a time with contacts that they bother your everyday living, then sure, maybe halo's aren't so bad and you can get it done.

 

Thats it. Not enough knowledge about it, and counting less then satisfactory results as perfect vision. Lets face it, this, and most similar operations are pushed forward by money in a big way, because they are expensive, they take little time to perform, and they enable the doctors to earn quite a sum of money in not so much time. There is the first problem here - would it have been pushed that hard if the procedure was really cheap? Then, what exactly makes it that expensive, apart from the machine that can be bought on credit, and is no problem to pay off if there is a steady number of patients troughout the year? It comes down to the conclusion that the most expensive part of it is the doctor's work.

Other things mentioned on FDA's page are possibility of extremely dry eyes, halo and starbursts effects in vision. And there is unpredictable scatter, which means that they cannot guarantee for results. So they must be joking, right? Put all that money and risk in it to get severe side effects AND call it a sucess? No, thanks.

New Thread
Other Resources My Cup of Joe » Lasik? Rss Feed  
 
 
of 2