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2008-12-04 2:01 PM
in reply to: #1838820

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Master
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Seattle, California
Subject: RE: Canadian Politics
BigDH - 2008-12-04 11:49 AM
Global - 2008-12-04 11:30 AM

Question to the conservatives.  

Do you believe Harper is they guy who should still be leading this country given the events of the past few days or do you think the conservatives should make way for new leadership?

Do you think there is any chance Harper can run the government effectively at this point without a majority?

 Why couldn't the liberals waited until they had decided on a leader.

They couldn't wait because they couldn't let the conservatives take away the public funding for political parties.  It would have completely crippled all of the political parties except the conservatives.  They couldn't back down after conservatives took it off the table though because they couldn't have people think this is all about public funding even though it is.

Trying to take out your rivals like that is completely undemocratic.  Harper should have known better and the Libs and NDP should own up to the fact this is the main issue for them.  The problem is if they were to try and use public funding as the issue there are just to many bad ways to spin it out of context.  So they were basically forced to  play chicken and it was too late to back down.

The libs and NDP may lose support over this but the alternative of taking away pubic funding would have been much worse for them.  For Harper to put them in this situation during a time of actually crisis shows how much politics is about self intrest.  These past few days have been a real low in canadian politics.  



Edited by Global 2008-12-04 2:08 PM


2008-12-04 3:00 PM
in reply to: #1838841

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Master
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Victoria, BC
Subject: RE: Canadian Politics
Let's not forget taking away the right for women to fight for pay equity - and the right to strike. Also two very big no-no's, in most people's books.

You wanna help the little guy, Stephen? Then let the little guy keep the fundamental freedom of fighting for what he/she thinks is right and fair.

2008-12-04 7:55 PM
in reply to: #1833747

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Subject: RE: Canadian Politics

Given the alternatives, the prorogue was the best decision the GG could make.  I think they all need to cool down a little - this gives them that chance.

Harper may be an , but I'd rather have an calling the shots than a .

In Harper's post GG meeting speech he seamed to extend the olive branch - I'm hopeful this is sincere.  Ignatieff, and to a lesser extent, Dion, said they'd be willing to listen and work towards something.  Rae was staying the coalition course in his interview, while yet another liberal (don't remember who) said the coalition will not work as is.  

There is an entirely different path this could all take that hasn't been brought up.  MPs could cross the floor giving the Conservatives a majority.  Not sure how likely that is, but I believe he is only 9 or so seats short.

Global - I think regardless of how this plays out Harpers days are numbered.  I'm not sure who the best candidate would be to replace him as the party head - certainly not Flaherty or Baird.  Prentice's name is being brought up a lot lately, although I admit I don't know his resume - except he's a local MP in Calgary here.

2008-12-05 10:39 AM
in reply to: #1833747

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Subject: RE: Canadian Politics

I've got to back Harper in this.  I'm not a big fan of his, but I liked his finance plan.

Remove the public funding for the political parties?  I think it's a great idea.  With this in place, we as taxpayers are paying the Bloc party so they can try to tear Canada apart.  I really don't understand why we as a country allow a party such as the Bloc to exist.  

You can argue that this move would cripple all parties but the PC's, but it has only been recent years that the PC's have developed other revenue sources.  The other parties should have been doing this as well.  So they will have to work a bit harder?  I don't find that a bad thing.  AND in these tough times, our budget is still balanced.  That says a lot.  Harper doesn't say he will do nothing about the economy.  He said is isn't that bad yet (it's not) and that they are exploring proposals to stimulate the economy when it is required.  Perfect answer.  No rash decisions like some the US are making and possibly now regretting.

Anyone in Parliment that would cut a deal with the Bloc is acting un-Canadian.  Supporters of this will lose my vote for life.  If this gets forced to another election I think Dion has handed Harper his majority, as long as Harper holds his ground and does not try to cut deals with the Bloc himself.  I'm not in favour of another election, but this is a much better option than handing power over to the coalition.

Dion argues that the majority of Canadians did not vote for Harper, but NO ONE voted for this rapidly assembled Liberal-NDP (-Bloc) coalition.

Even if you want to argue that Harper has lost the confidence of the house.  Shouldn't one of the questions be does he still have the confidence of the rest of Canadians?   Only 6 weeks after an election, I bet he does.  With the liberals coming off their worst election in history, the PC's gaining (14?) seats, and the separatists holding the deciding factor in the confidence vote I hope the Governor General stands up for Canadians and doesn't hand power over to the coalition.

2008-12-05 11:29 AM
in reply to: #1840193

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Master
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Seattle, California
Subject: RE: Canadian Politics

Remove the public funding for the political parties?  I think it's a great idea.  With this in place, we as taxpayers are paying the Bloc party so they can try to tear Canada apart.  I really don't understand why we as a country allow a party such as the Bloc to exist.

Public funding helps to keep private intrests away from government and costs 30 million.  Thats 1 dollar per person.  It's more then worth that one dollar to me to keep from having political parties relient on private intrests thus having to pander to them to keep money.

AND in these tough times, our budget is still balanced.  That says a lot.  Harper doesn't say he will do nothing about the economy.  He said is isn't that bad yet (it's not) and that they are exploring proposals to stimulate the economy when it is required.  Perfect answer.  No rash decisions like some the US are making and possibly now regretting.

Most economists are saying he is waiting to long and that if we wait another 60 days for stimulus to be brought forth we are going to worsen the affects of this economic situation.  As far as the budget being balanced that was only because Flaterty assumed growth over the next few quarters even though the government keeps saying we are going to be in a ressession (negative growth).  You can't base your budget on info you know to be false.  How does that work?  There is going to be a deficeit.  We all know it just come out and say it.

Anyone in Parliment that would cut a deal with the Bloc is acting un-Canadian.  Supporters of this will lose my vote for life.  If this gets forced to another election I think Dion has handed Harper his majority, as long as Harper holds his ground and does not try to cut deals with the Bloc himself. 

Harper has cut many deals with the bloc to stay in power.  The liberals are idiots for putting it forth formally but you are kidding yourself if you don't think Harper has cut deals with the bloc.  As far as a majority.  It will never happen as long as the bloc are winning 40 to 50 seats in quebec.  Given the crap Harper has flung around the past few days and the legitimacy the Liberals handed to the bloc the conservatives not winning a majority anytime soon.  And defianatly not under Harper.  He will sweep the west over this but he is losing ground in quebec big time according to the latest polls.  You can't win a majority without Quebec.

Dion argues that the majority of Canadians did not vote for Harper, but NO ONE voted for this rapidly assembled Liberal-NDP (-Bloc) coalition.

Even if you want to argue that Harper has lost the confidence of the house.  Shouldn't one of the questions be does he still have the confidence of the rest of Canadians?   Only 6 weeks after an election, I bet he does.  With the liberals coming off their worst election in history, the PC's gaining (14?) seats, and the separatists holding the deciding factor in the confidence vote I hope the Governor General stands up for Canadians and doesn't hand power over to the coalition.

According to the latest polls most canadians (outside of quebec) want the conservatives to stay in power.  They however also believe that Harper caused this mess and a majority (60%) believe that the country is on the wrong track.  The only people who won here are the bloc and maybe the NDP.  If the polling numbers in Quebec hold the conservatives wont win a majority.  The only way I could possibly see that happening is if the Liberals ran again under Dion, but that is pretty unlikely.  The liberals are still sitting at 24% national support after this mess, but the big boost the conservatives got from all will likely taper off.  Polls typically make large swings after events like this one way or another and then normalize.    


2008-12-05 1:02 PM
in reply to: #1833747

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Master
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Calgary, Alberta
Subject: RE: Canadian Politics
On a side note - just who was responsible for video taping Dion's speech the other night?  It looked like he tried to do it himself.  Step 1 - set up camera.   Step 2 - make sure it's in focus (yep - book case is in focus).  Step 3 press Record.  Yep - bookcase still in focus.  What was the book mostly in focus titled "Hot Air"?


2008-12-05 1:09 PM
in reply to: #1839436

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Subject: RE: Canadian Politics
feldon - 2008-12-04 5:55 PM

Global - I think regardless of how this plays out Harpers days are numbered.  I'm not sure who the best candidate would be to replace him as the party head - certainly not Flaherty or Baird.  Prentice's name is being brought up a lot lately, although I admit I don't know his resume - except he's a local MP in Calgary here.

I can't see Flaterty or Baird.  Who ever got finance has no chance becasue they are going to be the person that put canada back in to deficet.  I mean there is no way around it but it's the optics of the whole thing.  

Baird is way to partisian.  He is a good person to have on your side but he is too harsh for canadians.  They had to to put Harper in sweater vests to show canadians to show he wasn't scary.  Baird would have to be castrated I think.  

Prentice has actually tried to build concensus across the floor, his name is well known and he isn't scary.  The only others I could think of would be Peter McKay and Tony Clement.  It seems like Prentice is the front runner though.  There is a lot of potential in the conservative party.  Harper would be smart to step down now.  He will be remembered well as he brought the right together, won over Liberals and gave the conservatives ligitimacy on the national stage.  I can't stand the guy but he has accomplished a lot at helm.  

2008-12-05 1:11 PM
in reply to: #1840451

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Master
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Subject: RE: Canadian Politics

CalgaryRunner - 2008-12-05 11:02 AM On a side note - just who was responsible for video taping Dion's speech the other night?  It looked like he tried to do it himself.  Step 1 - set up camera.   Step 2 - make sure it's in focus (yep - book case is in focus).  Step 3 press Record.  Yep - bookcase still in focus.  What was the book mostly in focus titled "Hot Air"?

That should be a loud and clear signal to the liberals to get that man out of there ASAP.  I mean seriously how are Canadians going to trust the liberals to lead the country when they do crap like this.  I couldn't believe it.  Added to that they didn't even get the tape in on time.  

2008-12-05 2:26 PM
in reply to: #1840451

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Subject: RE: Canadian Politics

CalgaryRunner - 2008-12-05 12:02 PM What was the book mostly in focus titled "Hot Air"?

That was the Liberal Party Policy Platform  :P

 

 

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