esteil's Group - CLOSED Ultras (iron on up 50k on up)

Hey Eileen,

I am going to be a mentor as well, mainly for people doing sprints. But, I thought I would pop in a say Hi. I have been a fan of yours for a few years now. I have completed the Virginia Double in 2007 and am going back in 2009. I can't see myself doing any race shorter than a double, but probably not any longer because I like my sleep.

Anyway, I would love to pick your brain over the next year if that is cool?

Thanks,
Tom

Bill,

Sorry I didn't get back to this sooner.  I've been trying to log in for a few days and there was a problem on this end (got it finally Ron - thanks!).

Excited to have you.  Didn't know how this would be supported, but figured someone had to offer.

 Think the first thing to focus on is your base for the bike - we can discuss it more after the holidays.  (be sure the fam is on board with the ultra stuff :-) )

The BQ will be interesting while you train for your first 100 - it might be overkill and it is possible you might want to chose one over the other, but again, first thing first that 350er.

No ideas of grandeur - if you dream it, train for it, you can be it.  It is the training that has to be done smart.

Bill - happy to have you on board too :-)

Hope the shoulder is doing better.  With a labrum it is better to get it sx on then let that baby go.  Problem with running might come into play with the armswing, so I hope you are taking your rehab seriously, and if the PT didn't give you anything just ask and I can direct you to some sites.  You're going to need that arm for the bike too.

 Way cool on the 24 er, is this your first?  If it is, we should probably discuss training at night for a few hours and some sleep dep stuff so you can be powerful towards the end as you are at the beginning.  I would also incorporate at least once/month a day in your shoes, all day so you know that uncomfortable feeling of walking in those shoes and the desire to want to take them off - trust me on this one.  If you haven't thought about crew yet, would start thinking along those lines.  As the time gets closer, have lots for your crew too.  Now if this isn't your first, then if you have any holes you need plugged up or patchworked, given to me to examine, I'm good with the math.

I don't think I can help you kids with the BQer since I am S L O W only know how to go long.

And yes, you are nuts, but you have fellow crazies down the road and you stop in often, it's ok, we like you here.

Tom - snickered and blushed at the fan for years comment.  I forget that in America there are pple that follow the exploits - in Europe I just don't understand what they are saying so I don't get embarrassed (and yes my spelling is bad this late at night).

Huge congratulations on Virginia - its one of the hardest on the circuit, and it is home.

Ask away - anything you need, I'm there.  We might have to rename you Bill 3 though, as that seems to be the name for this thread.

oh....and the little door I like to kick in with regards to you like to sleep, um, you get to in the quintuple and deca.  Ok, left that door ajar with me in the room=bad idea :-)  Food for thought, in Mexico they are going to do the 10 irons 10 days in November.  Jorge will let you do whatever variation of that you want.  I'm going down with plans to just do 5-8 of them.  Take off a few days for margaritas and go explore one of the mountains.

I might be up in Virginia in 2009 - just waiting on some documentation to come through before I can commit to anything for 09 (aside from Jorge's).

Damn you and your door kicking. I was just sitting at my desk thinking about the logistics of the quintuple and how I might actually be up for it, when I got a Christmas email from Jorge.

Is that fate?????

Now, I need to talk to my wife

Bill 3 /madcow/tom - lalalalala quintuples my favorite :-) 

Something to think about, this year he is doing the single iron/day for whatever days you want.  If you decide long and hard the answer will come to you.  The first two days will be cake, it will be day 3/4 of the 5x I anticipate sticking problems.  The 5th you get to just roll out of bed and go play, the endorphins will get you through.

 If you plan to go this route, the best way to train for this is to get your iron time smooth and quick.  Train like an iron and throw in a few longer workouts once per month (like you did for the double) but do those on limited sleep to teach the body how to function on exhaustion.  You have to obviously be cautious to avoid injury, so no speed work on that second day.

When the time is right, let me know whatcha got.  Your wife must be a Saint - but you can always tantilize her with a vacation on the beach right after the race in November.  If that doesn't work, let her know that Mexico is the birthplace of the deca - hence mega history.  It's like our Kona :-)

I think that the quintuple might be too much of a stretch for 2009. After talking it over with my wife, she wants me to finish the double first in 2009, then tackle the 5XIM in 2010. Mainly concentrating on one race per year. I am worried that there isn't enough of a break between Virginia and Mexico for me. I remember how much I hurt after every race I have been in

BTW, she wasn't that impressed with Mexico being the birthplace of the Deca. She said San Diego is the birthplace of triathlons so there is enough history here for her 

In the 5X and 10X IM races, what are the time cutoffs per day? Also, I think the swim is in a pool, but what are the course distances for the bike and run?

Your wife is smart!  The double then Mexico is a bad combo (one of the many many reasons why I go there and purposely drop out just for mileage).  Remember Virginia is bruttal conditions - great race, but challenging.  Mexico is a given and flat, freaky flat.

The day by day irons it is a 24 hr cut off, but not really.  No clue what Jorge's plan is, but typically you have to be ready to go to the pool about 90 minutes before the start every morning.  The time will only be important in the later irons.

Something to think about, Jorge always says this will be the last, yet (Thank God!) he keeps putting them on.  This last deca was his largest numbers.  There is no pattern to what he does race wise, but don't plan on 2010 being the 10x10 or the 5x5.  Would probably bank on a traditional deca or quintuple (or both like he did this year).

The course distance is the park - 1.2 mile loop.  It sounds bruttal, and it might be, but the course is pretty and I think the perfect distance for safety and comfort.  Will ve finishing up the rr from deca with tons of photos soon (bigger project needing my immediate attn for race season 2009 right now) on the blog at wordpress. 

San Diego - ahhhhhhhhhhh :-)  insert mega jealousy right now.

hope you and Mrs. madcow have beautiful Holidays, time for this girl to get some sleep!

Bill -

long day in the saddle/and work/and play, have to get out the door - but first a quickie for you:

longest bike in general for the 24 depends on your goal.  If it is to finish and be comfortable then I would suggest 15-18 hrs as your longest bike (and place it about 6 weeks prior) if it is to go fast and hard then I would be doing your longest week at 3 days at 6 hrs of hard speed.  Place that one about 5 weeks out.

You will read things across the board on this one, but in the n=1 experiment this is what has worked.  Time for you to play a bit with what your body gets to do :-)  and the dogs will get used to the shoes.  mine still talk to me.  When you get ready for this, would prefer it on that longest day when you are miserable already so you can experience the worst of it...its just for the mental training, nothing more nothing less.

ok, going to be late if I don't move it.

Hello,

My name is Ingrid and I would like to join this group. I have never participated in a triathlon before but ultimately I would like to do an Ironman.

I am 42 yo, single and have no kids. I have about 100 pounds that I would like to lose, and I want to  use triathlon training to help me achieve that weight loss.

My goals are:

1. Incorporate exercise as part of my daily lifestlye (as opposed to my current 7 day rest program)
   
2. Complete a triathlon with a smile on my face

I do have other sport specific goals, but these are my 'baby step' goals. I've chosen the ULTRA group, since it covers the distances that I'd like to cover.

I realize that I may not participate in an IM or even half iron man in 2009 and that is OK.

Well, if there are any other questions for me please go ahead and ask them.

Eileen,

i would love to join your group. I'm a father of two 5 and 8. I'm four years in the sport having done 3 ironmen 1 Dnf in an offroad iron due to a dislocated shoulder and multiple marathons including NYC just recently...the fist year i lost 100lbs training and did a half iron as my first race.. 5:32 slow but i finished. Then various races and an Ironman over the 2nd year..then comes the third year when i got the bright idea of gaining 35lbs to race a buddy in clydesdale well I took 2nd in the half iron and knocked him off the podium.. well needless to say i'm still clydesdale... did IMFL this past year...and i just need some motivation.. i want to go long but have no idea about nutrition or training as i have always self trained. I'm signed up for IM cozumel in Nov. and I'm thinking of doing the Transrockies... i'm king of the 10 minute mile and i really love running singletrack so offroad ultras really are appealing to me.

thanks

Hi!

I just want to lurk a little.  I am Tom (madcow's) crew chief.  I am interested in crew related issues but would love to her your ideas about nutrition, pacing, and anything else that comes along.  Looks like he might step up to the 3X instead of the 2X in 2009.  At this point he is looking at maybe going 5X by 2010.  Nutrition is going to be the key and I think we have a lot of work to do there.  I look forward to learning lots.

Sherri

Ingrid - excited about your goals :-)  Think its important to think of the big picture, but as you take the steps to your goals I would like to have you watch MadCows group (and participate too!).  He is geared towards sprint and oly which is a very healhty place to start.  I don't want you to burn out by doing too much too soon.  Why MadCow? - he likes the ultras so he will understand and help you with the basics on up and help provide a foundation for the big picture.  I can help you with some issues (female) that he can't, but think it would be good for both of us to get you there.

Have you eyed a first race/distance yet?  Realistically look at your week and figure out how many hours you would like to devote to training.  If you want someone to hold you accountable would it be ok to check in here once a week and constructively look at your weaknesses and strengths?  You chose the day, just put it on your planner and check in, ok?  Part of the process of going long (and long is relative - every distance that is new to you is long) is developing the mental end.  One thing that has worked over the years is looking constructively at what is working and what can be tweaked.  For every weakness (or perceived weakness!), you have to list two strengths (positive changes). 

Excited about the new road for you woman - this is in you!

Ellasdad - 100 lb drop, wow, thats amazing!  When is the transrockies, and what is it (assume a bike race).  IM Cozumel now that sounds like fun - only let's hold you accountable to get to your race weight (or close) so that the trip to Cozumel has your best effort.  After all you are spending all those beans to get there.  The DNF on the offroad is completly different than road, so please just chalk that up as experience and mental fortitude (disclocated shoulder - ouch ouch ouch!).

Would assume you are in off season mode (need to recover from NYmary) and the Holidays.  During this time try to look at what your limitors are - obviously you stated nutrition.  This is a good time to start base building - the basics: gentle spinning, yoga/pilates, strength training.  The foundation you set now will carry you through the year.  Not too much though, because November is a long way off, and you don't want to be burnt out.  Get back to me about the specifics with the Transrockies and how close you are leaning towards it.  Also, your limitors and what your realistic training hours are per week.  Don't forget to schedule in time for the family, because those come first long before your needs, as you know.

Happy to have you play in the group :-)  have a feeling you'll be teaching us some stuff about the transrockies!

Sherri-

when I got your email earlier, I thought you were his wife, and I got confused how you lived on one coast and him on the other, now it makes sense!  Sherri you are a special lady to look after him!

Nutrition is a complete different beast for the 3x than the 2x.  And not just for Tom, but for his crew.  I don't know how many people you are planning on having come crew for him, but when you slip into the extra iron making sure the crew is fresh is just as important as keeping Tom going forward.  This includes proper hydration and food for you guys!

Going to throw out some basic questions, answer here what you feel comfortable (or seperate email if you don't want to give Tom's secrets away) so I can help make you super super crew :-)

What do you think was the strongest part of the crew, what worked the best, and what do you think was the areas of weakness or change you would make?  What was your most challenging moment?  How fresh did you feel at noon, midnight, 3 am?  How about Tom - did you notice certain foods perked him up and others he declined?  Anyone keep track of his urine output (if he wasn't congnitive enough?) bc this one is most important during the 3x when the lack of sleep comes in - after his first few, he won't need anyone keeping an eye on him, he'll know if he's in trouble.  Did Tom listen to you (authorative enough)?  Do you think he time wasted, and if so what can he do different?  (big time wasters - phone, pick up notes - although sweet it takes minutes away from movement and the only thing Tom should be focusing on is keep going forward, THE CHAIR - the breaks are important but do you guys have agreed upon rule plans for the chair? 

On nutritional side - does Tom react ok to RedBull (since they always come out) or another perker for the lull?  If so, how did you handle the crash, was there a crash?  For the triple, there is huge exhaustion towards the end of the race, you'll want to plan for setup and breakdown so that the crew and Tom are not exhausted before the race starts and can plan to have a good finish and be fresh.  Will talk more about that closer to October :-)  for now, need to get some work done.  Work on what I asked above over the next few weeks and lets see if we can't buy some more free race time that is just sitting there for the taking.

Eileen and Ingrid, I was thinking the same thing. Join my group, we will be more geared toward your goals and Like Eileen said, she can help with whatever "female issues" you may have.

I'm glad Sherri is here, she was waaay more in tune with what I needed than I was. I was going to ask Sherri about my nutrition, then ask you here, but it looks like Sherri cut out the middle man

Thank you both for everything you are doing to help me.

(whispering - uh, you forgot to mention the 3x)

no worries on helping Tom - its fun to help others see new goals.  It would be a crime to not share the info and mistakes up in the head - its why we are on Earth right?

We'll buy you some free time- obviously you have it in you.  You should be cut out - your only job is to swim, ride your bike, run and eat/drink what Sherri hands you :-)

Really limited time this week - but if you get a chance email what your races are, so maybe I can give you some input of what to add/take away.  10 months out I would be doing some base building and muscle building/endurance.  Also try to think about what you thought was missing/or perfect/ you really liked so those little touches can be recreated.

About the triple. You opened that door, remember? And I think Sherri has been secretly planning on me doing the triple all along. I probably would have caught on when she told me the race started on Friday and not Saturday

As far as races for 2009 goes. I only have the Virginia race. I was going to try and build a base until about April/May, then focus on the triple. The only thing I am not sure about is that was the plan when I was thinking of doing the double. I don't know if I shouuld start any earlier training for the triple instead.