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2008-12-28 7:19 PM

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Subject: schedule question
This will be my first season to dip my toes in the iron pool. Right now I'm signed up for a HIM in may, and a full in Nov, and am thinking about adding another HIM in september. Check my log for my exact schedule and let me know if it would be feasible to throw in Augusta 70.3 or no.


2008-12-28 7:27 PM
in reply to: #1874850

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Subject: RE: schedule question
I'm also considering the Duke Liver Center half which is on Sept, 27 also. Not that it makes a difference, just thought I would throw that out there too.
2008-12-29 12:12 PM
in reply to: #1874850

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Subject: RE: schedule question

I asked the following of Coach AJ from D3 sports during the last on line session:

[ejc999] I've seen different guidance on doing an HIM before an IM. When should you do a HIM before a IM and how should you race the HIM?

[Coach AJ] I think an athlete should do at least 2 HIM's before their 1st IM. The 1st one is to see where you are fitness wise, and to work on your nutrition plan. This can be well in advance of the IM. The 2nd HIM should be 8 to 6 weeks from IM day and again, it's an assessment of fitness, equipment and ESPECIALLY nutrition. As far as "how" to race it, that depends. If you are feeling strong, a good race is a great mental boost. Or, you can race it at more IM pace and dial in that effort.

On the other hand, when I was on Endurance Nation that don't recommend any Halfs within 12 weeks of the race.   They feel that it takes away from specific training for the race and that the recovery time impacts your training. 

I've done it both ways and I think it depends on your previous experience and your goals.  I think for those with experience and a good nutrition plan, they are better off with no HIM within 12 weeks but if you need more experience with pacing/nutrition, then it's a good idea to do one 8 weeks out to test fitness and nutrition.

Ernie

2008-12-29 3:43 PM
in reply to: #1874850

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Subject: RE: schedule question

wipate - 2008-12-28 8:19 PM This will be my first season to dip my toes in the iron pool. Right now I'm signed up for a HIM in may, and a full in Nov, and am thinking about adding another HIM in september. Check my log for my exact schedule and let me know if it would be feasible to throw in Augusta 70.3 or no.

what's the full in Nov? Is it Cozumel??

I'm doing two HIMs next year -- one in July and one in September (and also doing an IM AquaVelo late Sept)

2008-12-29 5:25 PM
in reply to: #1874850

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Subject: RE: schedule question

No, it's the Beach2Battleship in Wilmington, NC. Its not a sponsored Ironman it's just an iron distance; all the same to me. I care more about 140.6 miles than I do a sponsor. I was just curious because I've heard mixed reviews on how close to an IM you can do a HIM. I've seen a bunch of people are doing it is as well so I'm going to throw in that extra HIM, I just need to figure out if I want to do Augusta 70.3 or the Duke Liver Center Half.

2008-12-29 6:56 PM
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Subject: RE: schedule question

Part of the decision is how quickly you recover when you place your HIM before your IM.

Last year I did IMLP and didn't do a HIM before it as training for my first IM was more important than doing a half. Think week taper and week recovery you lose 2 weeks of important training time. Plus Lake Placid is early in the season so there aren't many options for races 8-12 weeks out.

This year I'm doing IM Canada and I'm doing a HIM about 9 weeks before. Goal is to use it to set some power zones for bike for IM and dial in some important details for my IM.



2008-12-29 10:37 PM
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Subject: RE: schedule question
KathyG - 2008-12-29 7:56 PM

Part of the decision is how quickly you recover when you place your HIM before your IM.

Last year I did IMLP and didn't do a HIM before it as training for my first IM was more important than doing a half. Think week taper and week recovery you lose 2 weeks of important training time. Plus Lake Placid is early in the season so there aren't many options for races 8-12 weeks out.

This year I'm doing IM Canada and I'm doing a HIM about 9 weeks before. Goal is to use it to set some power zones for bike for IM and dial in some important details for my IM.

Bingo!!! Kathy hit it on the head imo. If you recover quickly and can get back into training then go for it but if it causes you to miss a bunch of "quality sessions" due to recovery then I would shy away.

2008-12-30 9:33 AM
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Subject: RE: schedule question

Depending on the circumstance, I could come up with a bunch of different scenarios. I usually like something 10-12 weeks out or 2-3 weeks out. This obviously depends on the athletes experience and ability to recover from the event.

I like 10-12 weeks because you can race before your IM specific build without compromising this important phase of training.

I like 2-3 weeks because all of your IM specific build is complete and this can take the form of your last key session.  You rest up and continue with your peak/taper.

I've raced a HIM 5-6 weeks out and I didn't care for it. The timing is just awkward and right in the middle of your build. Once you recover from the race, your time is limited.  I felt as though it had been a long time since my last "key" long ride before the race.

2008-12-30 10:00 AM
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Subject: RE: schedule question
Mat - what would you think of an Aquabike (IM distance or HIM distance) at the 5 to 6 week out timeframe?
2008-12-30 11:28 AM
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Subject: RE: schedule question

I did duke half before IMFL (same date as B2B) a few years back and the multisports.com folks were all about doing a half at that time.  But I also didn't really taper much for it so I ended up with a week where I didn't do as much bike or run training as I would have if I hadn't raced.  At that point it was probably more important for me to get used to racing since I was fairly new to things, but I probably wouldn't do it again.  I'd rather train more and race less, especially if I'm not going to get out there and really race hard.  Duke is a tough course and not something I could just coast through.  Those bridges on B2B will be a piece of cake after duke.  At least the first time around.

So is it feasible?  Sure.  Is it the best thing for you to do?  Maybe.  See you at WL Half then?

2008-12-30 12:58 PM
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Subject: RE: schedule question
Well, now I'm not so sure. What would you guys think about running an oly distance instead of a HIM 5 weeks out? No, I won't be at WL, I'm doing Fl 70.3 in May.


2008-12-30 1:30 PM
in reply to: #1877619

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Subject: RE: schedule question
mat steinmetz - 2008-12-30 7:33 AM

Depending on the circumstance, I could come up with a bunch of different scenarios. I usually like something 10-12 weeks out or 2-3 weeks out. This obviously depends on the athletes experience and ability to recover from the event.

I like 10-12 weeks because you can race before your IM specific build without compromising this important phase of training.

I like 2-3 weeks because all of your IM specific build is complete and this can take the form of your last key session.  You rest up and continue with your peak/taper.

I've raced a HIM 5-6 weeks out and I didn't care for it. The timing is just awkward and right in the middle of your build. Once you recover from the race, your time is limited.  I felt as though it had been a long time since my last "key" long ride before the race.

Disclaimer that I've only done one IM, but I did an HIM 5 weeks out from IMAZ.  It was good from a race practice standpoint, but I agree with Matt's last paragraph above.  It does cause some ruckus in the schedule.  You can't taper going in, and can't realy recover coming out, so you have to use it as a long training day ( I guess I should limit that to "me".  and it does come in the middle of the last big build.   Especially agree with Matt's last sentence

ETA - on the Oly question, oddly enough, I find it harder to recover from a good Oly effort than an "IM race pace" HIM.  I'd be tempted to race the Oly fast.  Personally, I think it's not a great idea.  It won't really tell you much about your long course fitness and the temptation to really race it (and require a good week of recovery) would be too great for me.



Edited by ChrisM 2008-12-30 1:31 PM
2008-12-30 2:11 PM
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Subject: RE: schedule question
If you want to do a HIM to practice IM pace and nutrition do it on your own outside of an actual race. Doing a race without allowing yourself the excitement and nervousness that comes along with it could be a bad idea.

If you want to race a HIM 5 weeks out then don't plan on a taper. Just use the week after for active recovery and then build for 2.5 weeks and taper for IM for 1.5 weeks and you're set.

With that being said my coach says 8 weeks out is the ideal time to race a final race before your A+ race of the season.
2008-12-31 3:41 PM
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Subject: RE: schedule question

vm354...I think an aquabike 5-6 weeks out would be perfect.

2008-12-31 3:48 PM
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Subject: RE: schedule question

Agree with the others on racing...If you are going to race, then race.  Not tapering is fine, but I'd at least go into it as rested as you would for a "key" session.

 Also, don't dive back into "normal" training right after the race. 72 hrs post race is the most important time to do light activity that aids in recovery rather than tearing you down more. Frequent ~45 min sessions are best.  Think of it as delivering oxygenated blood to your muscles rather than a "session."

When going into your 'A' race for the year. Try your best not to compromise that race by doing something in the weeks leading up to the race that could have a negative impact. If you are questioning it, chances are it is probably not the best decision.

2008-12-31 6:26 PM
in reply to: #1880324

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Subject: RE: schedule question
mat steinmetz - 2008-12-31 4:48 PM

When going into your 'A' race for the year. Try your best not to compromise that race by doing something in the weeks leading up to the race that could have a negative impact. If you are questioning it, chances are it is probably not the best decision.

I agree with this point 100%.  I think people confuse what you can do with what produces the best result at an A race.

Ernie



2009-01-01 3:48 PM
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Subject: RE: schedule question

vm354 - 2008-12-30 11:00 AM Mat - what would you think of an Aquabike (IM distance or HIM distance) at the 5 to 6 week out timeframe?

I asked this a few weeks ago and got a lot of good-idea responses.  I'm doing an AquaVelo IM distance 2 months out and hope to really nail down my bike nutrition.

2009-01-05 11:29 PM
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Subject: RE: schedule question
trishie - 2009-01-01 4:48 PM

vm354 - 2008-12-30 11:00 AM Mat - what would you think of an Aquabike (IM distance or HIM distance) at the 5 to 6 week out timeframe?

I asked this a few weeks ago and got a lot of good-idea responses.  I'm doing an AquaVelo IM distance 2 months out and hope to really nail down my bike nutrition.



I wonder if that will tell you what you want to know. You can eat and drink so many things on the bike and not know til the run if they were right for you. You could go into your IM thinking hey it worked in the Aquabike so I am fine. You could be in for a bad surprise. Just a thought.
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