General Discussion Triathlon Talk » how much drop off in pace? Rss Feed  
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2009-01-26 3:15 PM

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Subject: how much drop off in pace?

I'm signed up to do my first HIM in FL in May.  My overall goal is to finish, but would like to also have some realistic time goals.  I know it probably varies a lot based on personal fitness, but how much do you expect the run pace to drop off during a HIM vs a half mary?

 

Ryan



2009-01-26 3:18 PM
in reply to: #1929831

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over a barrier
Subject: RE: how much drop off in pace?
About 30 secs per mile is what I see quoted alot if you pace the bike correctly.

2009-01-26 3:18 PM
in reply to: #1929831

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Not a Coach
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Subject: RE: how much drop off in pace?

Well-trained, well-paced you should probably be able to run at about your marathon pace in a HIM.

2009-01-26 3:19 PM
in reply to: #1929844

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Subject: RE: how much drop off in pace?

running2far - 2009-01-26 1:18 PM About 30 secs per mile is what I see quoted alot if you pace the bike correctly.

that's the key.  Don't focus solely on the run pace.  If you screw the pooch before getting to the run, it won't matter

2009-02-06 1:44 PM
in reply to: #1929831

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Bob
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Subject: RE: how much drop off in pace?

My fastest 13.1 mi run is my HIM PR. My legs  felt great coming off the bike and I just kept running!!! Granted, I've only run a few 1/2 marathon's and I am a swimmer first, biker next then a runner.

I will say that nutrition on the bike is the key to a good run. I never ran out of energy on the run and never stopped taking in gels and fluids during the whole race.



Edited by rstocks3 2009-02-06 1:45 PM
2009-02-06 2:38 PM
in reply to: #1929831

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Champion
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Subject: RE: how much drop off in pace?
The 30 sec per mile ballpark estimate jibes with my experience...last summer I did 1:48 HIM run in late July and 1:42 open HM a month later (albeit with an injury...my HM PR is a bit lower than that).


2009-02-06 4:07 PM
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Elite
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Subject: RE: how much drop off in pace?

running2far - 2009-01-26 3:18 PM About 30 secs per mile is what I see quoted alot if you pace the bike correctly.

This is the truth...bike fitness is a HUGE contributor to how fast you run off the bike. I have some great open 1/2 Mary times, but my HIM run times aren't as good as they should've been because my bike fitness was (is) still developing.  Also depends upon the course.  My good 1/2 Mary times have been on some pretty flat courses, but both of the HIMs I ran had some decent hills in them...so many factors.

2009-02-09 2:55 PM
in reply to: #1929831


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Subject: RE: how much drop off in pace?
If you are doing Disney, prepare for the heat. Heck, whatever race you are doing in FL in May -- prepare for the heat. If it is not hot where you live try and artifically simulate heat by doing some overdressing on your training runs as you get close to the event.

My first HIM was "in Florida in May," and the single biggest contributing factor to my poor run was not being properly acclimated to the heat once the clouds broke and the humidity wratcheted up. Oh, and what everyone else said about bike pacing.
2009-02-09 4:22 PM
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Subject: RE: how much drop off in pace?
I'm in Birmingham, AL so we have some pretty wretched heat and humidity as well.  The bike is definitely where I'm going to have to pick up the training so I don't fall apart on the run.
2009-02-09 5:59 PM
in reply to: #1953270

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Subject: RE: how much drop off in pace?

One more for the "pace the bike correctly".

I cooked myself both times on the bike during my HIM's and had a terrible run both times (I might go check the stats).  In fact, I think my IM run pace was faster than my HIM run pace because I DIDN'T ruin myself on the bike.

A testament to pacing on the bike:

  • Open Half Mary (that I was goofing around on) -  8:40/mile
  • First HIM run - 11:20/Mile (2:40/mi slower than open half mary)
  • Second HIM run - 12:23/Mile (3:40/mi slower than open half mary - suffered from cramps and heat issues)
  • Ironman run pace - 11:13 (included 3 rest room breaks)

Goes to show that a proper paced bike makes a HUGE differenece.

 



Edited by Aikidoman 2009-02-09 6:07 PM
2009-02-10 9:58 AM
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Subject: RE: how much drop off in pace?


2009-02-10 10:30 AM
in reply to: #1929831

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Subject: RE: how much drop off in pace?
austiry - 2009-01-26 2:15 PM

I'm signed up to do my first HIM in FL in May.  My overall goal is to finish, but would like to also have some realistic time goals.  I know it probably varies a lot based on personal fitness, but how much do you expect the run pace to drop off during a HIM vs a half mary?

 

Ryan

 Hi Ryan,

 It depends on your overall depth of fitness.  I've run 2:46 off the bike the same season that I did 1:19 in a Half IM -- however, that's pretty close.

 To offer you some specific ideas:

 How many years have you been training for triathlon?  What's your average weekly volume - hours overall?  What's your average weekly run volume -- miles?

 Assuming that you are well trained for IM and pace well, then you should be able to get within about 20 minutes of double your HIM run time -- however, that is a pretty big assumption and the bike course profile will have a BIG impact on how well most AGers run.  Specifically, the more times you spike your bike power, the slower you will run the marathon.

 Generally, you will find that specific time goals aren't all that useful for your first IM -- if things are going well then you won't remember them... if things are tough then they will hang around your neck and be a distraction.  Once you have done a few IMs, then you'll start to get a feel for what's possible.

 g

 ++

 Ryan,

 I see I answered the wrong question!  Sorry about that.  For your Half IM, I think the reply about being able to come close to your open marathon pace is a good one -- if you pace really well then you should be able to go a little quicker than that.

 Another benchmark that I find works is your pace at the top of Zn 3 -- because of fatigue you will need to hold Zn 4 effort to go Zn 3 pace.

 Watch the HR spikes on the bike and give yourself two miles to ease into the run.

g



Edited by GordoByrn 2009-02-10 10:34 AM
2009-02-10 5:01 PM
in reply to: #1929844

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Subject: RE: how much drop off in pace?
30 seconds per mile? That would be 2 miles per minute, which is 120 miles per hour. Something seems a bit off here
2009-02-10 5:52 PM
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Subject: RE: how much drop off in pace?
danielbailey - 2009-02-10 3:01 PM

30 seconds per mile? That would be 2 miles per minute, which is 120 miles per hour. Something seems a bit off here


No, the notion someone suggested was that your pace in an HIM run might be 30 seconds per mile less than your pace in an open half mary. In my case, last summer, I did about 8:15/mile for the HIM and just over 7:45/mile for the half mary a month later.

Edited by tcovert 2009-02-10 5:52 PM
2009-02-20 11:20 PM
in reply to: #1929831

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Subject: RE: how much drop off in pace?
I did my first HIM last year in Sept.  My run pace was 7:35 which really surprised me.  I had set a PR in a standalone half marathon 2 weeks prior with a 7:23 pace.  The HM was supposed to be fast training run, not really a race but I felt great and really picked up my pace the last 3-4 miles to a sub 7:00 pace.  I was still tentative about the run in the HIM but I watched my HR on the bike, averaged 20.5 and still had a great run.  I did a full marathon in Dec at 8:03 pace with some leg cramp issues the last 5k.  I would think if you train and race smart you should be able to maintain a pace within 30 sec per mile of either your standalone half (+30) or full (-30) as general guidelines.   
2009-02-21 10:44 PM
in reply to: #1929831

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Subject: RE: how much drop off in pace?
easy answer...go do 56 miles at race pace and get off and run 6 at race pace. this will give yourself a ballpark figure and should only take 2 days to recover doing some active recovery


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