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2009-02-26 5:56 PM

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Champion
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Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: VO2 Test Results
OK. This was my third VO2 test, the first since 1/11/07. Here are the results of the two tests:

2007
AeT- 129HR, VO2 38.2
AT- 162HR, VO2 61.3
Peak- 179HR, VO2 74.8

2009
AeT- 122HR, VO2 41.5
AT- 158HR. VO2 65.1
Peak- 175HR, VO2 78.6

Very interesting. My AeT and AT HR's are lower by 5 bpm's on average but my VO2's at those levels are higher. I am 2 years older, 40 vs. 38, and currently about 8 lbs. heavier than when I did the 2007 test (I was building towards an April IMAZ and had was just about to run the RnR Marathon) although I don't think weight is a big factor. I do know that my max HR is 181 as I saw that in December during a 5K. Without a lot of warm up and a test that really lays the screws in early, it's tough for me to get my HR up to max on the treadmill during these tests.

Nick was very pleased at my current level of fitness and was very happy the VO2 numbers had improved. We discussed my upcoming training protocols. One of the hardest things I am going to have to do is say farewell to 138-148 aerobic training zone. It's like having a close friend die! My new IM aerobic zone is now 133-143. Any training I do which is IM pace or aerobic in nature will be done there. For now, that will slow my run pacing down some until I become as efficient as possible in that zone. On the other side of the training coin, tempo and interval work is going to be right up to AT. No more "grey" area stuff in between. Nick is going to really work on my speed and strength when we start our program as my aerobic base is already so big. It's probably the best thing for me as I really don't do that enough or with enough specificity or periodization.

So I was wondering about the changes that occur for an athlete as they become more fit while they are also getting older. It seems that 40 and over is where the numbers game starts to really crunch, we can be fitter and potentially faster, but our bodies response (in this case HR) can change. I'm interested in hearing the resident coaches perspective as well as anyone who uses HR and AT/LT training protocols and to hear how they have changed over time.

Edited by bryancd 2009-02-26 6:22 PM


2009-02-26 7:15 PM
in reply to: #1984401

Pro
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yep,
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results

nice results.  How much did these VO2 tests run ya?

I'm thinking of doing one of those or a LTH test.

2009-02-26 7:22 PM
in reply to: #1984401

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Pro
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Vancouver, BC
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
I'm getting some testing done (for free, actually they are paying me $100) on Tuesday next week and then a 4 hour session shortly afterwards. Thanks for the numbers. It will be interesting to compare how my results change, but I'll only have one datapoint for awhile.
2009-02-26 7:44 PM
in reply to: #1984552

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Champion
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Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
Dlaxman31 - 2009-02-26 7:15 PM

nice results.  How much did these VO2 tests run ya?

I'm thinking of doing one of those or a LTH test.



Well, the numbers aren't really the issue. My VO2 numbers are high and that's what I would expect from my results, but it's just a number out of many. the test was $150. An LT test with blood drawn is a bit better for accuracy, but it's all relative.
2009-02-26 8:33 PM
in reply to: #1984401

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Lethbridge, Alberta
Bronze member
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
I don't have a second set of results yet but the professor who did my first test was interested in having me come back again and I've been considering it for this spring. The prof suggested trying a bicycle ergometer this time though so the two tests may not be very comparable. I'm curious to see any discussion on the topic though, here or on your thread on the other board.
2009-02-26 8:40 PM
in reply to: #1984401

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Expert
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NW Suburbs, Illinois
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results

Bryan - Thanks for posting.  Very interesting numbers.  I, too, train with HR and will be 40 next year, so I am interested in what some of the coaches have to say.  I have read that Max HR goes down "about" a beat per year after a certain age. 

Unfortunately, I can't site where I read that.  Fortunately, this is BT and not that other site



2009-02-26 9:02 PM
in reply to: #1984401

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Cycling Guru
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Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results

AeT is a crock of sh-t and made up number .... there is no such thing .......

But still, 78.6 for your VO2 max is pretty kick azz!  Says you have a lot of potential as an endurance athlete!!

Ever think about trying for some challenging goals like qualifying for Boston or even trying to make it to Kona???

Money mouth

2009-02-26 9:10 PM
in reply to: #1984713

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Champion
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Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
schmize - 2009-02-26 8:40 PM

Unfortunately, I can't site where I read that.  Fortunately, this is BT and not that other site



Oh, I posted this there as well for kicks and giggles! I don't fear S.T.!
2009-02-26 9:11 PM
in reply to: #1984750

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Champion
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Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
Daremo - 2009-02-26 9:02 PM

Ever think about trying for some challenging goals like qualifying for Boston or even trying to make it to Kona???

Money mouth



Eh....I don't know....seems like too much work.
2009-02-26 9:47 PM
in reply to: #1984401

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Expert
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Oak Creek, WI
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
i'm signed up to get tested tomorrow...  will be interested to see how the numbers compare...  i'm 36 - so you have me by a couple years...
2009-02-26 10:39 PM
in reply to: #1984401

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Master
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Saratoga Springs, Utah
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
This thread brings back memories of pain. I have done several VO2 tests, years ago, the last one when I was 32 in 1993 at the OTC in Lake Placid. This was the year I had my best results with a peak HR of 186 and VO2 of 79.8. All I can say is do not stop training or trying to achieve whatever goals you have. Looks to me that this will not be a problem for you. When I turned 40 I took a 5 year lay off before getting into training again and it has been hell trying to get back into somewhat respectable shape, 48 now, 12 lbs heavier and injuries come alot easier. I am suprised though that my max HR has not dropped as much as I expected over the years. Last summer I hit 181 a few times, once in a race and once during a hard run. I would like to try another one of those run till you die sessions when I get more fitness this summer and see how it compares.


2009-02-26 10:49 PM
in reply to: #1984750

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Expert
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Zürich, Switzerland
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
Daremo - 2009-02-26 4:02 AM

AeT is a crock of sh-t and made up number .... there is no such thing .......

But still, 78.6 for your VO2 max is pretty kick azz!  Says you have a lot of potential as an endurance athlete!!

Ever think about trying for some challenging goals like qualifying for Boston or even trying to make it to Kona???

Money mouth

 I see the two proposed goals very unbalanced. Make it for Kona is 20x more difficult than qual for Boston!

2009-02-26 11:26 PM
in reply to: #1984969

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Champion
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Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
haha it was a joke, the OP has already been to kona or at least he qualified
2009-02-26 11:49 PM
in reply to: #1984401

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Extreme Veteran
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Sunny San Diego
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
I got tested this week on the bike (with Lactate Threshold), here's what I scored:

147 lbs., 26.1 BMI, Body fat 13.7%

VO2 max 51, HR 167, 305w, 5.4w/kg
VO2 @ LT 40, HR 141, 233w, 3.5 w/kg, 723 cals/hr

A few things I was told:
1) I can increase my VO2 max by losing some weight.
2) I'm probably not doing enough Zone 2 for recovery. Too much Zone 3, 4 and 5 without proper recovery can thrash my LT.
3) For long distance race pacing (HIM and IM), I should aim to maintain 200w.



.
2009-02-27 6:45 AM
in reply to: #1985027

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results

newbz - 2009-02-27 12:26 AM haha it was a joke, the OP has already been to kona or at least he qualified

Yes, he has done both already - under 3 at Boston and under 10 at Kona.  It was a joke .......

(But I do agree that BQ'ing is a hell of a lot easier than KQ'ing).

2009-02-27 7:17 AM
in reply to: #1984401

Subject: ...
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2009-02-27 7:29 AM
in reply to: #1985180

Champion
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Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
LOL! I'm an under achiever. What it seems like to me is that VO2 can increase with fitness but if age decreases HR, it's a performance push. I can operate more efficiently but I do so at a lower HR, so pace doesn't really change much. That's what I am questioning.
2009-02-27 7:54 AM
in reply to: #1984401

Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
Do VO2 results help accurately gauge endurance performance?  For instance, an olympic sprinter may have off the charts VO2 numbers, but if you ask him to run a half marathon he bonks at mile 10.  If so, how do VO2 results help you with endurance training? 
2009-02-27 8:05 AM
in reply to: #1984401

Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results

people continue to use AeT? gray zone? Oh, dear Jebus saves us!

Seriously though, impressive number; you results shows how VO2 is trainable (to some extent) and by doing consistent training over the past two years you increased that number. I wouldn't read to much into your HR because as we have discussed many times before, HR only shows cardiovascular strain at a given moment and that might or might not have anything to do with the work your muscles are doing which we are in fact more concerned about. If you were to test your VO2 every 4-6 weeks you could see that variability. 

For that reason testing your VO2 or your threshold (either via an LT test, or field testing to get power/pace at threshold) are much more important an relevant to guiding your training. Your HR avg could have been 4 bpm lower this time vs 2007 just because you are older, the day was colder, you were a bit more rested, etc. but it doesn't matter, what matters is that your VO2max (and most likely yuor threshold power/pace) are higher. Anyway, in all seriousness you should pull a Tom Evans and show what a 40 year old can do at IMAZ

2009-02-27 8:07 AM
in reply to: #1985223

Champion
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Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
Dream Chaser - 2009-02-27 7:54 AM

Do VO2 results help accurately gauge endurance performance?  For instance, an olympic sprinter may have off the charts VO2 numbers, but if you ask him to run a half marathon he bonks at mile 10.  If so, how do VO2 results help you with endurance training? 


An Olympic sprinter may bonk at 10 miles has nothing to do with VO2 and everything to do with their training specificty. If they trained to run 10 miles, they likely would do much better. VO2 is simply a gauge of aerobic efficiency based on O2 consumption. A high number can show a lot of potential but like anything, the results must be trained to get there.
2009-02-27 8:12 AM
in reply to: #1984401

Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results

So VO2 does not indicate endurance performance?  Correct? 

 



2009-02-27 8:14 AM
in reply to: #1985240

Champion
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Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
JorgeM - 2009-02-27 8:05 AM

people continue to use AeT? gray zone? Oh, dear Jebus saves us!

Seriously though, impressive number; you results shows how VO2 is trainable (to some extent) and by doing consistent training over the past two years you increased that number. I wouldn't read to much into your HR because as we have discussed many times before, HR only shows cardiovascular strain at a given moment and that might or might not have anything to do with the work your muscles are doing which we are in fact more concerned about. If you were to test your VO2 every 4-6 weeks you could see that variability. 

For that reason testing your VO2 or your threshold (either via an LT test, or field testing to get power/pace at threshold) are much more important an relevant to guiding your training. Your HR avg could have been 4 bpm lower this time vs 2007 just because you are older, the day was colder, you were a bit more rested, etc. but it doesn't matter, what matters is that your VO2max (and most likely yuor threshold power/pace) are higher. Anyway, in all seriousness you should pull a Tom Evans and show what a 40 year old can do at IMAZ



Thanks for responding, Jorge. I only listed AeT as it was a data point on the form, I agree it's nothing. The "grey zone" my coach and I were discussing is also not accurate, my bad. What I mean is that I am going to make my 'hard" efforts more AT targeted as opposed to somwhere between what I train in an "aerobic/IM pace" effort and AT. Of course, running or biking at variable efforts is a great thing, and even on "aerobic" days, I don't have to be sit at one pace/effort the entire time. If I hit a hill, I can push up hard if I want, ect. But I am going to dial back my "aerobic" effort into a lower range by 5bpm for now in an effort to try and become as efficient as possible in that HR range and then add the speed later in the season as I build toiwards IMAZ. My coach as a lot of "pain" planned. You two would get along great! Sadists!
2009-02-27 8:15 AM
in reply to: #1985251

Champion
9600
500020002000500100
Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
Dream Chaser - 2009-02-27 8:12 AM

So VO2 does not indicate endurance performance?  Correct? 

 



More so it indicates perfromance potential, but the training trumps all. If you have a high VO2, you have a lot of "engine" to work with but you still need to do the work.
2009-02-27 8:28 AM
in reply to: #1985256

Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
bryancd - 2009-02-27 9:15 AM
Dream Chaser - 2009-02-27 8:12 AM

So VO2 does not indicate endurance performance?  Correct? 

 

More so it indicates perfromance potential, but the training trumps all. If you have a high VO2, you have a lot of "engine" to work with but you still need to do the work.

Sure.  Thanks.  I'm just starting to try and truly understand and comprehend the scientific sports terms.  Would LT be a better indicator of endurance performance? 

What I'm trying to get at  is -- what specific test would be best to accurately gauge your endurance fitness and improvements?  It sounds like VO2 is a better indicator of endurance potential.  Because if I am understanding this correctly Athlete A can have a VO2 Max of 70 and another athlete, Athlete B, can have a VO2 max of 55.  If Athlete B  has a better training program and is more consistent in training he can potentially beat Athlete A in a long course event despite having lesser VO2 numbers.  Right?

Don't mean to hijack the thread ...  I'm just super-curious as I'm interested in trying to figure our what testing I should have done this Summer, and how to apply it best to my training so that it translates to endurance success.  In the end I'll probably hire a coach to do all of this, provided I have the money. 

2009-02-27 8:43 AM
in reply to: #1984401

Champion
9600
500020002000500100
Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: VO2 Test Results
No, I wanted this to be an open discussion, so it's not a hijack. I think your analogy is accurate and i don't think VO2 in and of istself is a great indicator of endurance perfromance. I thnik an true LT blood test is a better testing protocol to at the very least determine your LT/AT and HR zones. VO2 is the test my coach does, so that's what we use.
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