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2009-03-13 8:11 AM
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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
SweetK - 2009-03-13 8:07 AM

I care about my FICO store because I will be buying a house somewhere in the next 5 years. I don't plan on renting the rest of my life. I don't expect I can save $150K+ in that amount of time and pay cash. And like it or not, employers care about your credit score. Many companies run a credit check on potential hirees and can choose not to hire you b/c of your credit rating. Insurance rates are also based on FICO scores.


Two words: manual underwriting

www.churchillmortgage.com

You don't need a FICO score to get a mortgage. Employers who ONLY look at a credit score are not worthy of my time. If I'm qualified in every area, have thousands of dollars in savings in the event of a job loss, have no debt hanging around my neck, and don't get the job because I don't have an "I Love Debt" score, then they can bite my ankle. I didn't want to work for them anyway! Also, you can get insurance without a FICO score. I'm sure they'd rather insure someone who hasn't had an accident in 5 years and can afford to pay minor repairs out of their own pocket than someone who's a habitual rear-ender with a 900 FICO.

I'm just sayin', you're not required to participate in stupidity.


2009-03-13 8:16 AM
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2009-03-13 8:22 AM
in reply to: #2015363

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
SweetK - 2009-03-13 8:16 AM

Hmmm.... if you say so.

I'm happy with the way I budget myself and plan for my future and the future of my child. I feel like I'm being subtly attacked in this thread when my intention was simply awareness, go figure.

Well if you feel like I'm attacking you then I'm sorry. That's not my intention at all. What I see in this thread is the perpetuation of the fallacies of the credit-loving crowd.

I'm just trying to dispel some of the myths that are out there that "You can't get a job without a FICO!" "You can't get a mortgage without a FICO!" "You can't get insurance without a FICO!" It's just not true and there's no reason to stick your head in the sand and not listen to a reasonable response to such claims. That's all.

Sorry that you felt attacked.
2009-03-13 8:30 AM
in reply to: #2015329

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
SweetK - 2009-03-13 8:01 AM
newleaf - 2009-03-13 8:52 AM

SweetK - 2009-03-12 9:48 PM  I could only imagine what some are feeling now with the CC victimization...

Am tired of hearing how everyone is a victim.

For years and years, I paid off my balance every carry month.  Paying more than I can really afford in alimony and child support in the past year, has caused me to carry a balance.  And the rate got jacked up.  And I'm getting myself into a bit of a hole... one that I will be out of in about 5 years' time, but a hole nonetheless.

To consider myself a "victim" would be stupid.  I knew what I was getting myself into when I started carrying a balance.  People need to take responsibility for the messes they get themselves into.  Folks can write all the national petitions they want, but I won't be signing one.

I'm not saying everyone is a victim, but the fact is they keep raising their rates, even for the ones who pay their balance in full and pay on time. I would like the credit card rules to be the same as the rules for a fixed loan. If you sign an agreement for an interest rate, it stays that interest rate. With CC there are too many asterisks with too many exceptions and it's too easy for them to change rates. There would be no deceptive marketing to entice people with lower rates only to jack them up later. Many people are in dire straights today b/c of the economy, and this kind of stuff doesn't help.

Evidently you have little experience with the variety of credit facilities or the way credit markets work. Lenders (including credit card companies) pay variable rates for their funds and thus charge variable rates on many of their loans. Huges lines of credits to corporations are tied to variable indices with the spread subject to negotiation (which is what you do when you shop credit cards). To offer fixed-rate financing means that the lender must procure a fixed-rate source of funds or absorb the interest-rate risk themselves. Given the choice, most choose to pass that risk onto the end user. Most end users, in turn, agree to accept that risk.

Deceptive marketing? Maybe, but the variability of the rate is fully disclosed before the consumer agrees to borrow. Caveat emptor.

2009-03-13 8:38 AM
in reply to: #2015035

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...

breckview - 2009-03-12 11:16 PM
Bripod - 2009-03-12 9:03 PM Amazingly, even though credit card companies screw people over all the time, a vast majority of the American public will defend the use of credit cards to their death. I'll just keep using cash and move through the line quicker, thanks.
I'll defend mine. I have a few hundred thousand airline points from using credit cards on EVERYTHING. I don't fly much so they just keep racking up. I've never paid a penny in CC interest in my life. I also get an up to 25 day interest-free float. By federal law I'm not responsible for any unauthorized charges over $50. They greatly simplify my accounting and they improve my credit score. Credit cards are not bad. Spending more than you can afford is bad no matter how you do it.

Exactly. I have two credit cards I use. One I use for everything but gas and I get airline miles for it. I use it for EVERYTHING. I also pay it in full, on-time, every month.  It's convenience for me. They could put the rate to something huge, and it wouldn't effect me at all.  The other one I use for gas only because it gets me 5 cents off for every gallon (HEB); I also pay it in full every month.  I don't use credit cards for "credit" I use it for convenience and the fact that I get something out of it...with gas savings and airline miles, I come out with more than if I used cash.  But, it really does come down to personal responsibility and your approach to spending and what things you allow yourself to accept debt for in order to have.  Me--my house is the only thing I "owe." The only other things I've used credit payments for is when I bought some furniture on a 0% interest deal, and paid off before interest started.

2009-03-13 8:44 AM
in reply to: #2015363

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
Your PSA on rates is informative. Thx.

Your rant on the evil CC co's is what brought on the flames.


SweetK - 2009-03-13 8:16 AM

Bripod - 2009-03-13 9:11 AM

SweetK - 2009-03-13 8:07 AM

I care about my FICO store because I will be buying a house somewhere in the next 5 years. I don't plan on renting the rest of my life. I don't expect I can save $150K+ in that amount of time and pay cash. And like it or not, employers care about your credit score. Many companies run a credit check on potential hirees and can choose not to hire you b/c of your credit rating. Insurance rates are also based on FICO scores.


Two words: manual underwriting

www.churchillmortgage.com

You don't need a FICO score to get a mortgage. Employers who ONLY look at a credit score are not worthy of my time. If I'm qualified in every area, have thousands of dollars in savings in the event of a job loss, have no debt hanging around my neck, and don't get the job because I don't have an "I Love Debt" score, then they can bite my ankle. I didn't want to work for them anyway! Also, you can get insurance without a FICO score. I'm sure they'd rather insure someone who hasn't had an accident in 5 years and can afford to pay minor repairs out of their own pocket than someone who's a habitual rear-ender with a 900 FICO.

I'm just sayin', you're not required to participate in stupidity.


Hmmm.... if you say so.

I'm happy with the way I budget myself and plan for my future and the future of my child. I feel like I'm being subtly attacked in this thread when my intention was simply awareness, go figure.


2009-03-13 8:53 AM
in reply to: #2015431

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2009-03-13 9:00 AM
in reply to: #2015475

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
Again, I applaud you for making folks aware of CC rate changes. Cool.

Hang around long enough and words get put in your mouth and/or you'll get flamed. Don't get upset, it's just COJ.

SweetK - 2009-03-13 8:53 AM

I'm upset at the lack of compassion here...

The banks can never and never do anything wrong... they get bailout money and still screw the consumer. I'm upset about that, it is "evil" as leapdog so conveniently stated somehow by putting the words in my mouth.

I bet for everyone who responded, there are those who read my OP and looked at their CC statements and were shocked and maybe upset as a result they became more aware - for that I am grateful. For the flaming no. BT is just not a community for me, well not the COJ community anyway.
2009-03-13 9:03 AM
in reply to: #2015475

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...

SweetK - 2009-03-13 8:53 AM I'm upset at the lack of compassion here... The banks can never and never do anything wrong... they get bailout money and still screw the consumer. I'm upset about that, it is "evil" as leapdog so conveniently stated somehow by putting the words in my mouth. I bet for everyone who responded, there are those who read my OP and looked at their CC statements and were shocked and maybe upset as a result they became more aware - for that I am grateful. For the flaming no. BT is just not a community for me, well not the COJ community anyway.

Wow, you post an opinion, people disagree, and you consider that flaming?

Not all banks are evil, not all got "bailout money" (which in most cases was a loan, or, more technically, the government received an ownership interest in exchange for money to be repaid). But the consumer has to bear some responsibility in that relationship, in fact the lack of responsibility on the part of consumers is a big factor in this current economic crisis.

2009-03-13 9:16 AM
in reply to: #2015491

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Edited by SweetK 2009-03-13 9:17 AM
2009-03-13 9:44 AM
in reply to: #2015326

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
Bripod - 2009-03-13 7:00 AM
I get 1% CASH BACK on purchases with my Visa DEBIT card, ...
Fraud liability? Exact same guarantee with your debit card ...


I hate to break it to you but the whole reason debit cards were invented was so that the credit card companies could circumvent the federal law limiting liability at $50. And secondly so they could stop providing people interest-free loans on the period between purchase and payment.

As you state, the debit card companies claim the same fraud liablity but it's not true. It's a company guarantee as opposed to a federal law. I'm sure it's fine until someone drains $50k out of your account. In that case, I have a feeling it might not be that easy to collect.

With a credit card, the merchant is who loses in fraud cases because they've already agreed to the merchant account terms. If someone drains a huge amount cash out of your account, the bank will take the hit and there's no law requiring them to repay you. If you trust them to do it, fine. I don't and so I cut up the debit cards they send me into tiny little bits.


I have no idea what my FICO score is. You know why? Because I don't care! I don't borrow money!

I consider my credit score one of my most valuable assets.


2009-03-13 9:53 AM
in reply to: #2015644

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
breckview - 2009-03-13 9:44 AM

I consider my credit score one of my most valuable assets.

I hope Fair Isaac Corp helps you pay your bills in the event that you lose your job. Including your credit card bills.
2009-03-13 9:55 AM
in reply to: #2015644

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
breckview - 2009-03-13 9:44 AM

As you state, the debit card companies claim the same fraud liablity but it's not true. It's a company guarantee as opposed to a federal law. I'm sure it's fine until someone drains $50k out of your account. In that case, I have a feeling it might not be that easy to collect.


If we have agreed on a contract in which they guarantee me no liability for fraudulent charges then I don't need a federal law mandating them to uphold their end of the deal. In that case I have contract law. So, still no fraud liability. Next!
2009-03-13 10:16 AM
in reply to: #2015673

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
Bripod - 2009-03-13 8:55 AM
I hope Fair Isaac Corp helps you pay your bills in the event that you lose your job. Including your credit card bills.

I don't have a job. I lost it 20 years ago.

If we have agreed on a contract in which they guarantee me no liability for fraudulent charges then I don't need a federal law mandating them to uphold their end of the deal. In that case I have contract law. So, still no fraud liability. Next!

Your "contract" if one actually exists is only as good as the financial position of who it's signed with, and your ability to argue your case in civil court.
2009-03-13 10:17 AM
in reply to: #2015644

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...

breckview - 2009-03-13 7:44 AM
Bripod - 2009-03-13 7:00 AM I get 1% CASH BACK on purchases with my Visa DEBIT card, ... Fraud liability? Exact same guarantee with your debit card ...
I hate to break it to you but the whole reason debit cards were invented was so that the credit card companies could circumvent the federal law limiting liability at $50. And secondly so they could stop providing people interest-free loans on the period between purchase and payment. As you state, the debit card companies claim the same fraud liablity but it's not true. It's a company guarantee as opposed to a federal law. I'm sure it's fine until someone drains $50k out of your account. In that case, I have a feeling it might not be that easy to collect. With a credit card, the merchant is who loses in fraud cases because they've already agreed to the merchant account terms. If someone drains a huge amount cash out of your account, the bank will take the hit and there's no law requiring them to repay you. If you trust them to do it, fine. I don't and so I cut up the debit cards they send me into tiny little bits.
I have no idea what my FICO score is. You know why? Because I don't care! I don't borrow money!
I consider my credit score one of my most valuable assets.

 This is one of the most UNTRUE statements I have read in a while...Visa/Mastercard backs purchases on your debit card (assuming signature based transactions).  Most folks have at most $50 liability.  The bank couldn't give a rat's @$$ about the chargebacks, Visa/Mastercard handles that, and takes the money back from the merchant (that's the way it works....not saying that part is right or wrong).  I've had customers get reimbursed THOUSANDS in bad charges.  There is no dollar amount cap.  If someone tells you otherwise, find a manager...

And to the OP and others complaining about the rates: I hear and feel ya.  It sucks.

The thing nobody points out is that the banks are doing this with the INTENTION that you will close your accounts.  That's the whole point.  When you have too much business, you raise prices.  This is no different.  The banks are overlent and want to  shed customers.  Have you guys read about AMEX offering some people $300 to pay off and close their cards?

The other reason they are raising rates now is that next year when the CC bill of rights goes into effect, they will be unable to retroactive raise rates.  They want to get rates on 'high risk' (IE almost everyone...) customers up NOW, since they will be unable to do so later.

2009-03-13 10:21 AM
in reply to: #2015729

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
breckview - 2009-03-13 10:16 AM

Bripod - 2009-03-13 8:55 AM
I hope Fair Isaac Corp helps you pay your bills in the event that you lose your job. Including your credit card bills.

I don't have a job. I lost it 20 years ago.

INCOME. Sorry, didn't realize we had a legalist on our hands.

If we have agreed on a contract in which they guarantee me no liability for fraudulent charges then I don't need a federal law mandating them to uphold their end of the deal. In that case I have contract law. So, still no fraud liability. Next!

Your "contract" if one actually exists is only as good as the financial position of who it's signed with, and your ability to argue your case in civil court.

I suppose you're right. I mean, no competent judge would look at a contract and say "You agreed to not hold Mr. Bripod liable for any fraudulent charges. These charges are fraudulent. You need to credit back the money." That would NEVER happen! How silly of me to expect logic and reason to enter the discussion.

Edit: you're. not your. bleh.

Edited by Bripod 2009-03-13 10:21 AM


2009-03-13 10:36 AM
in reply to: #2015736

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
deskjockeyjim - 2009-03-13 9:17 AM
This is one of the most UNTRUE statements I have read in a while...

Not untrue. There is a big difference between a federal law and the guarantee of a private company. There is also a big difference between a debt being wiped away and cash money being returned to an account.
2009-03-13 10:42 AM
in reply to: #2015749

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
Bripod - 2009-03-13 9:21 AM
INCOME. Sorry, didn't realize we had a legalist on our hands.

Sorry, not possible.

I suppose you're right. I mean, no competent judge would look at a contract and say "You agreed to not hold Mr. Bripod liable for any fraudulent charges. These charges are fraudulent. You need to credit back the money." That would NEVER happen! How silly of me to expect logic and reason to enter the discussion.

Your ability to argue a case in court depends on your ability to pay $300/hr in legal fees which your opposition, who has lawyers on staff, will do everything in their power to maximize. By the way, do you really think the "contract" you have with these companies does anything other than protect them in every way that's arguably legal?
2009-03-13 10:53 AM
in reply to: #2015802

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
breckview - 2009-03-13 10:42 AM

Bripod - 2009-03-13 9:21 AM
INCOME. Sorry, didn't realize we had a legalist on our hands.

Sorry, not possible.

I suppose you're right. I mean, no competent judge would look at a contract and say "You agreed to not hold Mr. Bripod liable for any fraudulent charges. These charges are fraudulent. You need to credit back the money." That would NEVER happen! How silly of me to expect logic and reason to enter the discussion.

Your ability to argue a case in court depends on your ability to pay $300/hr in legal fees which your opposition, who has lawyers on staff, will do everything in their power to maximize. By the way, do you really think the "contract" you have with these companies does anything other than protect them in every way that's arguably legal?

I'll just put it on my credit card
2009-03-13 10:53 AM
in reply to: #2015787

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...

breckview - 2009-03-13 8:36 AM
deskjockeyjim - 2009-03-13 9:17 AM This is one of the most UNTRUE statements I have read in a while...
Not untrue. There is a big difference between a federal law and the guarantee of a private company. There is also a big difference between a debt being wiped away and cash money being returned to an account.

No there's actually not.  Visa is contractually bound to return that money.  There's no federal law I'm aware of that guarantees the 'chargeback' under any circumstances, other than contract law.  In any case, it doesn't really matter.  You have the same 'backing company' returning the money.  If you have a Chase Visa, it's not Chase that returns the money, it's Visa.  It looks different to the customer on a debit vs. credit, but it's not.

Do you have any experience to back up your statement or is this just your gut feeling?  Your statements have typical 'anti-debit card' FUD all over them.

See: http://usa.visa.com/personal/security/visa_security_program/zero_li... notice it says 'Visa credit or debit card' everywhere it talks about fraud liability.

 

2009-03-13 10:55 AM
in reply to: #2015832

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
deskjockeyjim - 2009-03-13 10:53 AM

breckview - 2009-03-13 8:36 AM
deskjockeyjim - 2009-03-13 9:17 AM This is one of the most UNTRUE statements I have read in a while...
Not untrue. There is a big difference between a federal law and the guarantee of a private company. There is also a big difference between a debt being wiped away and cash money being returned to an account.

No there's actually not.  Visa is contractually bound to return that money.  There's no federal law I'm aware of that guarantees the 'chargeback' under any circumstances, other than contract law.  In any case, it doesn't really matter.  You have the same 'backing company' returning the money.  If you have a Chase Visa, it's not Chase that returns the money, it's Visa.  It looks different to the customer on a debit vs. credit, but it's not.

Do you have any experience to back up your statement or is this just your gut feeling?  Your statements have typical 'anti-debit card' FUD all over them.

See: http://usa.visa.com/personal/security/visa_security_program/zero_li... notice it says 'Visa credit or debit card' everywhere it talks about fraud liability.

 



You're wasting your time - I already posted that link above and he didn't believe me.


2009-03-13 11:08 AM
in reply to: #2015836

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
Bripod - 2009-03-13 8:55 AM
deskjockeyjim - 2009-03-13 10:53 AM

breckview - 2009-03-13 8:36 AM
deskjockeyjim - 2009-03-13 9:17 AM This is one of the most UNTRUE statements I have read in a while...
Not untrue. There is a big difference between a federal law and the guarantee of a private company. There is also a big difference between a debt being wiped away and cash money being returned to an account.

No there's actually not.  Visa is contractually bound to return that money.  There's no federal law I'm aware of that guarantees the 'chargeback' under any circumstances, other than contract law.  In any case, it doesn't really matter.  You have the same 'backing company' returning the money.  If you have a Chase Visa, it's not Chase that returns the money, it's Visa.  It looks different to the customer on a debit vs. credit, but it's not.

Do you have any experience to back up your statement or is this just your gut feeling?  Your statements have typical 'anti-debit card' FUD all over them.

See: http://usa.visa.com/personal/security/visa_security_program/zero_li... notice it says 'Visa credit or debit card' everywhere it talks about fraud liability.

 

You're wasting your time - I already posted that link above and he didn't believe me.

 Lol...yeah, I see that nowSmile

Off to work...at the Credit Union...hahahaha

2009-03-13 11:19 AM
in reply to: #2015189

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
run4yrlif - 2009-03-13 7:49 AM

CC companies are completely within thier rights to chardge pretty much whatever interest rates they want (as long as they don't fall into the nebulous predatory lending category). They're supposed to send you a notice of the new rate.

Your options: take it or cancel your account. If enough people cancel, the banks may ge tthe message that hiking rates on good customers might not be such a good idea.

Part of the problem, is I did get a notice from Chase when they told me they were taking over the accounts from Wamu ...and told me nothing would change, but I could cancel, accept now, or if I used the card again it was the same as agreeing.

Well, I did use the card again.

Then a month after that they send another notice saying they made an error in the first notice and that really my APR was now going to be 23.99% .... so they had me locked in cause I had used the card.

If I close the account it hurts my FICO, plus I think that gves them the option to demand the balance in full and seeing how all these banks got themselves into trouble I believe they would.

I don't know if I still have the option to cancel, but it would create the same problems as if I closed the account.

2009-03-13 11:26 AM
in reply to: #2015335

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
mrbbrad - 2009-03-13 9:04 AM
klowman - 2009-03-12 10:56 PM

Did have a credit card with WAMU, but they sold some accounts or got bought out by Chase.

Did have 13.99% APR, when Chase took over they jacked it up to 23.99%!!!!

I got a coupe of notices from Chase telling me they were taking over the Wamu accounts, but not to worry, nothing would change with my account, could still use the same login to access my acount online, etc ... the agreement said that if I wanted to cancel or close the account to call them, if I wanted to keep it do nothing, and that if I incurred any new charges it was like saying I accept the new agreement and terms

So what gives???

Are you sure you read everything? I have a WaMu card too. I got it with a promotion rate of 0% on purcahses for 18 months or so. I got massive amounts of info from Chase and read (almost) every bit of it because I wanted to make sure my 0% wasn't going to skyrocket. I did see in that info where some rates were changing so maybe you missed that. Luckily my promotional rate did not and I will have the balance paid off before then end of the promotional period.

 

To the OP, I hear you about reading all your statements even if you have zero balance, and the sneaky way the companies increase rates,  but why carry so many cards with zero balance? You obviously don't use them and having that many credit cards with so much available credit is not doing your credit score any good. Even if it's a good score now, it could be even better without  all those open but unused accounts.

This was not an expiring Promotional rate.  I've had the Wamu card for 4 or 5 years ... it was 0% for the first 9 months or so, then went to 13.99% and has been there ever since.

I received a notice from Chase, they said they were taking over but that nothing else would change.  No mention about rates, no disclousre agreement, etc .... I didn't get that until AFTER I used the card again ... then I get this dubious notice that they made a mistake in the first notice and that actually my APR was going to be 23.99% now and not 13.99%

2009-03-13 11:32 AM
in reply to: #2015894

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Subject: RE: If you have Department Store Credit Cards, or any Credit Cards...
klowman - 2009-03-13 11:19 AM

If I close the account it hurts my FICO, plus I think that gves them the option to demand the balance in full and seeing how all these banks got themselves into trouble I believe they would.

I don't know if I still have the option to cancel, but it would create the same problems as if I closed the account.

Closing the account may not hurt your credit card as bad as you think, certainly depends on your overall credit history and how this card fits into it.

Regardless, closing the account is not your only option, and certainly not worth paying an extra 10% or more. What is stopping you from finding another card with a lower rate of interest, or refinancing the outstanding balance under another lower-cost option, and leaving the CC account open?

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