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2009-04-14 9:54 AM

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Subject: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
At the recommendation of a few friends I've been using a protein powder (Body Fortress Whey Protein) as a recovery drink, usually within 10-20 minutes of the end of my work-out.  I've been logging my food lately (trying to lose 15 pounds of fat) so when I went to look up nutritional info for this product I learned that each serving contains 6 grams of creatine.  

10 years ago in my serious weightlifting days I'd take creatine about 1/2 before lifting.  The stuff is supposed to help get water in to your cells and help cell metabolism so you can make greater gains when anaerobic strength training.  Anecdotally I'd say it worked.  But what does it do if consumed *after* a workout, and an aerobic one at that?  Should I be drinking my protein powder before I hit the road, or does it not matter? 


2009-04-14 10:10 AM
in reply to: #2083115

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

Nothing a glass of milk can't give you.  Except maybe the creatine.  Which I don't see much need for.  But that's my personal opinion.

2009-04-14 10:17 AM
in reply to: #2083115

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
Spleen - 2009-04-14 7:54 AM At the recommendation of a few friends I've been using a protein powder (Body Fortress Whey Protein) as a recovery drink, usually within 10-20 minutes of the end of my work-out.  I've been logging my food lately (trying to lose 15 pounds of fat) so when I went to look up nutritional info for this product I learned that each serving contains 6 grams of creatine.  

10 years ago in my serious weightlifting days I'd take creatine about 1/2 before lifting.  The stuff is supposed to help get water in to your cells and help cell metabolism so you can make greater gains when anaerobic strength training.  Anecdotally I'd say it worked.  But what does it do if consumed *after* a workout, and an aerobic one at that?  Should I be drinking my protein powder before I hit the road, or does it not matter? 


Chocolate milk is one of the absolute best recovery drinks out there. They've proven it in studies.

As far as creatine, there's not much benefit that it's going to give you for endurance training. Basically, there is a substance in the cell called ATP (Adenosine tri phosphate). To get energy for the cell, a phosphate bond is broken. Now you have ADP (adenosine DI phosphate), which can't be used for energy until it's made into ATP again.

What creatine does is provide a ready source of phosphate to recreate the ATP bond. However, it's really only good for short burst, high intensity exercise since it is depleted fairly rapidly, and then the body turns to other mechanisms anyway. It's good for weightlifting, sprinters, short course track cyclists, etc. For endurance exercise, not so much.

Also, just taking it 1/2 hour before a workout won't really do much. Creatine requires a loading phase of 3-7 days, and then regular (usually 2x day) supplementation at a high level to maintain high levels in the cells.

So, if you're paying $$$ for your protein drink, I'd ditch it and start knocking back milk after your workouts.

John
2009-04-14 10:18 AM
in reply to: #2083175

Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

Scout7 - 2009-04-14 11:10 AM

Nothing a glass of milk can't give you.  Except maybe the creatine.  Which I don't see much need for.  But that's my personal opinion.

Mmm...chocolate milk. Can't wait until marathon training starts so I have an excuse to drink it (I can't justify a glass after a 3-miler).

2009-04-14 10:22 AM
in reply to: #2083205

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

wurkit_gurl - 2009-04-14 11:18 AM

Scout7 - 2009-04-14 11:10 AM

Nothing a glass of milk can't give you.  Except maybe the creatine.  Which I don't see much need for.  But that's my personal opinion.

Mmm...chocolate milk. Can't wait until marathon training starts so I have an excuse to drink it (I can't justify a glass after a 3-miler).

Yeah, really not much need for recovery anything for shorter workouts.  Most of my runs happen to coincide with meals, so that's usually what I do.

2009-04-14 10:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
The Body Fortress stuff is actually pretty good for the price.  However, you should note that it is not just protein and creatine.  It is its own self-contained blend of ingredients that are all meant to do different things for your workout.  I found this out after I was bloating a bit because of taking creatine before weight training and the protein drink afterward (which also contained creatine).  I contacted the company for a complete list of the ingredients and found that it didn't make complete sense to me.  I had been taking some of the supplements included in the blend on my own, but as you said, some were taken before a workout and some after.  This meant that I was seriously doubling up on a few of my supplements without knowing it (hence the bloating, since creatine causes water retention).

Being "fiscally responsible," though, I was saving a LOT of money by using the blend.  When I asked the company about the dilemma, they suggested splitting their powder between pre- and post-workout drinks.  I did some research on this and it seems to work pretty well.  I started doing a half-scoop before my workout and a full scoop afterward.  In my opinion, this was pretty effective.

That being said, my whole philosophy toward supplementation has since changed after I moved from weight training to endurance training.  Now, it's just a couple pints of 1% chocolate milk after pretty much anything I do.  I still keep the Body Fortress onhand for the occassional strength-training sessions, but I sometimes forget about it.  I do think I benefitted during the strength workouts, but don't feel like I'm losing out on anything not taking them for my endurance training.

Hope that helps.


2009-04-14 10:50 AM
in reply to: #2083214

Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

Scout7 - 2009-04-14 11:22 AM

wurkit_gurl - 2009-04-14 11:18 AM

Scout7 - 2009-04-14 11:10 AM

Nothing a glass of milk can't give you.  Except maybe the creatine.  Which I don't see much need for.  But that's my personal opinion.

Mmm...chocolate milk. Can't wait until marathon training starts so I have an excuse to drink it (I can't justify a glass after a 3-miler).

Yeah, really not much need for recovery anything for shorter workouts.  Most of my runs happen to coincide with meals, so that's usually what I do.

Same here - during the week, I run before dinner, so I just come home and eat. But once I start doing those longer weekend runs, where I'll eat breakfast early but will need something afterwards, it'll be wondrous

2009-04-14 11:26 AM
in reply to: #2083317

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
wurkit_gurl - 2009-04-14 8:50 AM

Scout7 - 2009-04-14 11:22 AM

wurkit_gurl - 2009-04-14 11:18 AM

Scout7 - 2009-04-14 11:10 AM

Nothing a glass of milk can't give you.  Except maybe the creatine.  Which I don't see much need for.  But that's my personal opinion.

Mmm...chocolate milk. Can't wait until marathon training starts so I have an excuse to drink it (I can't justify a glass after a 3-miler).

Yeah, really not much need for recovery anything for shorter workouts.  Most of my runs happen to coincide with meals, so that's usually what I do.

Same here - during the week, I run before dinner, so I just come home and eat. But once I start doing those longer weekend runs, where I'll eat breakfast early but will need something afterwards, it'll be wondrous



Yep. Nothing better after a run in the Phoenix heat than to head straight to the fridge and glug down 1/2 gallon or so of icy cold milky goodness...

John
2009-04-14 11:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
Scout7 - 2009-04-14 11:10 AM

Nothing a glass of milk can't give you.  Except maybe the creatine.  Which I don't see much need for.  But that's my personal opinion.



I agree, but some of us cannot have milk.  I personally do no see the need for creatine, for us endurance types.

Kevin

p.s.  soy milk sucks
2009-04-14 11:51 AM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine


p.s.  soy milk sucks

x2
2009-04-14 12:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
Milk ain't gonna do it for me.  I don't think I've had a drop of the stuff since I was 8.  And I'm not in to sweet either, so even the chocolate version isn't appealing.  Thanks tho' for the suggestions.  I guess I can stick with the protein drink because it seems at the very least that it won't do me any harm, and I since I still do strength train a little it ought to help me keep up muscle mass.  

As an aside, I did try Recoverite for the first time after a 40 mile ride Sunday and my legs felt fresh as can be.  I need to try it after an 80+ and see if it has the same effect.  Seems like good stuff.


2009-04-14 12:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

Spleen - 2009-04-14 12:10 PM Milk ain't gonna do it for me.  I don't think I've had a drop of the stuff since I was 8.  And I'm not in to sweet either, so even the chocolate version isn't appealing. 

 

Why is this a reason not to use it in the future?  It's a healthy, cheap and effective recovery drink.  I use protein mixes at various times, but milk is always a staple.  Also, those protein drinks are usually much sweeter than chocolate milk!!!

2009-04-14 12:14 PM
in reply to: #2083512

Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

JoeBWan - 2009-04-14 12:51 PM


p.s.  soy milk sucks


x2

Chocolate soymilk tastes just like regular chocolate milk. Seriously. NOt sure if it's quite the same as chocolate milk for recovery purposes, but it's still tasty. I usually buy regular chocolate milk though, since I only drink soy because I don't like regular milk. Chocolate milk, however, is delicious, unlike plain milk.

2009-04-14 12:15 PM
in reply to: #2083479

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

KML - 2009-04-14 12:42 PM
Scout7 - 2009-04-14 11:10 AM

Nothing a glass of milk can't give you.  Except maybe the creatine.  Which I don't see much need for.  But that's my personal opinion.



I agree, but some of us cannot have milk.  I personally do no see the need for creatine, for us endurance types.

Kevin

p.s.  soy milk sucks

I understand that.  My point was more to highlight the fact that you can get what you need from regular sources without having to rely on protein shakes and whatnot.

2009-04-14 12:15 PM
in reply to: #2083601

Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

AndrewMT - 2009-04-14 1:14 PM

Spleen - 2009-04-14 12:10 PM Milk ain't gonna do it for me.  I don't think I've had a drop of the stuff since I was 8.  And I'm not in to sweet either, so even the chocolate version isn't appealing. 

 

Why is this a reason not to use it in the future?  It's a healthy, cheap and effective recovery drink.  I use protein mixes at various times, but milk is always a staple.  Also, those protein drinks are usually much sweeter than chocolate milk!!!

You can always get a bottle of Hershey's and make your own to suit your taste, if it's too sweet.

2009-04-14 12:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

Does the protein powder contain any carbohydrates?  That'd be as important, if not more so, to recovery than the protein.  Chances are you can get plenty of protein from a proper diet.



2009-04-14 1:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
Spleen - 2009-04-14 1:10 PM Milk ain't gonna do it for me.  I don't think I've had a drop of the stuff since I was 8.  And I'm not in to sweet either, so even the chocolate version isn't appealing.  Thanks tho' for the suggestions.  I guess I can stick with the protein drink because it seems at the very least that it won't do me any harm, and I since I still do strength train a little it ought to help me keep up muscle mass.  

As an aside, I did try Recoverite for the first time after a 40 mile ride Sunday and my legs felt fresh as can be.  I need to try it after an 80+ and see if it has the same effect.  Seems like good stuff.


does the body fortress have carbs too like the milk?  Or how about all the potassium?
2009-04-14 1:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

I can't drink milk either (lactose intolerant), so I use Endurox r4. Has that magical 4:1 Carbs to protein ratio (pretty much the same as milk)
2009-04-14 2:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
Spleen - 2009-04-14 12:10 PM Milk ain't gonna do it for me.  I don't think I've had a drop of the stuff since I was 8.  And I'm not in to sweet either, so even the chocolate version isn't appealing.  Thanks tho' for the suggestions.  I guess I can stick with the protein drink because it seems at the very least that it won't do me any harm, and I since I still do strength train a little it ought to help me keep up muscle mass.  

As an aside, I did try Recoverite for the first time after a 40 mile ride Sunday and my legs felt fresh as can be.  I need to try it after an 80+ and see if it has the same effect.  Seems like good stuff.

why don't you just eat food? A protein shake is probably not the best source to enhace recovery for endurance athletes; yes some protein can help recover muscles breakdown but for endurance athletes Carbs are KING!

Some simple guidelines:

Immediate recovery after exercise (0-1 h):
After easy/low intensity training (< 60min) - .5-.7g/KgBM at frequent intervals, include .125-.175g/KgBM
After moderate/high intensity training (60-90 min) - .7-1g/KgBM at frequent intervals, include .175-.25g/KgBM
After moderate to heavy endurance training (90 min > ) - 1.0-1.2g/KgBM at frequent intervals, include .25-.3g/KgBM

Daily recovery intake needs: if doing moderate duration/low intensity training: 5-7 g/kgBM/day
Daily recovery intake needs: if doing moderate to heavy endurance training: 7-12 g/kgBM/day



Edited by JorgeM 2009-04-14 2:15 PM
2009-04-14 3:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
For those that can eat/drink dairy products I would also suggest Greek yogurt.  Very high in protien and quite a few companies make strawberry, blueberry, honey, vanilla to name a few.  Stonyfield Farm has greek yogurt (yes, I did use to work there), plus there is also Oikos (which right now is my personal favorite), Faje, and others to look for.  I have done the chocolate milk thing too for years.
2009-04-14 3:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
AndrewMT - 2009-04-14 1:14 PM

Why is this a reason not to use it in the future?  It's a healthy, cheap and effective recovery drink.  I use protein mixes at various times, but milk is always a staple.  Also, those protein drinks are usually much sweeter than chocolate milk!!!



I guess 'cause I don't like the taste (or really the texture) of milk.  Same with other gross stuff like Accelerade and raspberry gu.  Barf.  Also, this brand of protein has just 3 grams of carb per scoop, so it's not sugary at all.

JorgeM - 2009-04-14 3:14 PM 
why don't you just eat food? A protein shake is probably not the best source to enhace recovery for endurance athletes; yes some protein can help recover muscles breakdown but for endurance athletes Carbs are KING!



Food?  What's that?  Don't you know I'm trying to drop 15 pounds?

Kidding aside, I do also follow up with a bowl of oatmeal after I shower up.  I guess the way it was explained to me was that protein is good after a workout to help repair muscle and turn Spleener in to an awesomely ripped endurance god. 


2009-04-14 3:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
offrhodes - 2009-04-14 4:00 PM For those that can eat/drink dairy products I would also suggest Greek yogurt.  Very high in protien and quite a few companies make strawberry, blueberry, honey, vanilla to name a few.  Stonyfield Farm has greek yogurt (yes, I did use to work there), plus there is also Oikos (which right now is my personal favorite), Faje, and others to look for.  I have done the chocolate milk thing too for years.


I heart this stuff!
2009-04-14 3:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
Spleen - 2009-04-14 1:08 PM
Kidding aside, I do also follow up with a bowl of oatmeal after I shower up.  I guess the way it was explained to me was that protein is good after a workout to help repair muscle and turn Spleener in to an awesomely ripped endurance god. 


Then it was explained to you wrong, or you're applying it based on different activities.

In endurance training, you want to replace the fuel source, which means CHO. You ideally want a drink that has a 4:1 CHO to protein ratio.

John
2009-04-14 3:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine


I just use myoplex lite...easy and I can take it with me in the cooler for group workouts.  It can hit the spot right after a loooonger workout and seems to help recovery...anyone else have experience with this?

2009-04-14 3:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

tkd.teacher - 2009-04-14 3:16 PM
Spleen - 2009-04-14 1:08 PM

Kidding aside, I do also follow up with a bowl of oatmeal after I shower up.  I guess the way it was explained to me was that protein is good after a workout to help repair muscle and turn Spleener in to an awesomely ripped endurance god. 



Then it was explained to you wrong, or you're applying it based on different activities.

In endurance training, you want to replace the fuel source, which means CHO. You ideally want a drink that has a 4:1 CHO to protein ratio.

John

x2  You do need the protein so that your muscles can repair themselves, but I find it's better to shoot for a steady intake of protein throughout the day and before bed.  Carbs are crucial for after a workout.  You might find you can drop more weight if you replenish your carbs. 

Cut out the simple carbs and try to limit them to right before during and after your workouts.  The rest of the time focus on the protein.  I don't know about being an "awsomely ripped endurance god" but this strategy keeps me around 6% body fat.

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