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2009-04-14 3:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
tkd.teacher - 2009-04-14 4:16 PM
Spleen - 2009-04-14 1:08 PM
Kidding aside, I do also follow up with a bowl of oatmeal after I shower up.  I guess the way it was explained to me was that protein is good after a workout to help repair muscle and turn Spleener in to an awesomely ripped endurance god. 


Then it was explained to you wrong, or you're applying it based on different activities.

In endurance training, you want to replace the fuel source, which means CHO. You ideally want a drink that has a 4:1 CHO to protein ratio.

John


yeah.. it's carbs+protein for recovery/repair/replenishment of muscles

btw, notice the ratio of carbs to protein in chocolate milk?  pretty close to the 4/1 recommended for recovery.


2009-04-14 3:54 PM
in reply to: #2084196

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
AndrewMT - 2009-04-14 4:22 PM

tkd.teacher - 2009-04-14 3:16 PM
Spleen - 2009-04-14 1:08 PM

Kidding aside, I do also follow up with a bowl of oatmeal after I shower up.  I guess the way it was explained to me was that protein is good after a workout to help repair muscle and turn Spleener in to an awesomely ripped endurance god. 



Then it was explained to you wrong, or you're applying it based on different activities.

In endurance training, you want to replace the fuel source, which means CHO. You ideally want a drink that has a 4:1 CHO to protein ratio.

John

x2  You do need the protein so that your muscles can repair themselves, but I find it's better to shoot for a steady intake of protein throughout the day and before bed.  Carbs are crucial for after a workout.  You might find you can drop more weight if you replenish your carbs. 

Cut out the simple carbs and try to limit them to right before during and after your workouts.  The rest of the time focus on the protein.  I don't know about being an "awsomely ripped endurance god" but this strategy keeps me around 6% body fat.



6% eh?  I'm not sure most people realize just how lean 6% really is. 
2009-04-14 3:59 PM
in reply to: #2084296

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

Bioteknik - 2009-04-14 3:54 PM

6% eh?  I'm not sure most people realize just how lean 6% really is. 

True, and it's probably not completely a good thing.  Not sure if you're questioning whether I was BSing or not, but I think you're right.  Makes it even more important to keep properly fueled for long workouts.

2009-04-14 8:30 PM
in reply to: #2084318

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
AndrewMT - 2009-04-14 4:59 PM

Bioteknik - 2009-04-14 3:54 PM

6% eh?  I'm not sure most people realize just how lean 6% really is. 

True, and it's probably not completely a good thing.  Not sure if you're questioning whether I was BSing or not, but I think you're right.  Makes it even more important to keep properly fueled for long workouts.



yes, 6% is going to be low enough that for most people who aren't genetically predisposed to be that lean, athletic performance is adversely affected.  2% above essential body fat usually creates a bad hormonal situation, so yes there's a bit of salt one has to take about claims of 6%.    
2009-04-14 8:45 PM
in reply to: #2083115

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Carrollton, TX
Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
Lactaid sells milk for those that lactose intolerant.. Tastes almost just like the real thing, plus it doesn't spoil as fast.  I buy it all the time, and a nice big bottle of Hershey's Chocolate Syrup.. YUM!
2009-04-15 9:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
AndrewMT - 2009-04-14 4:22 PMI don't know about being an "awsomely ripped endurance god" but this strategy keeps me around 6% body fat.


6%?  I think that qualifies.  I'll be psyched when I get back to 10%.

BTW, this AM I mixed my protein powder w/ a half cup of chocolate milk.  Success! 


2009-04-15 10:58 AM
in reply to: #2083115

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
I used to use the Body Fortress protein as well, really cheap, and if you compare the ingredients to other protein powders, it has just as much of not more ... but I had to stop taking it because of the creatine.

I didn't realize it was in there, but it was and it was also in 2 other supplements I used to take ... and I was overdosing on creatine ... along with not drinking enough water and working out really hard, having lots of lactic acid buildup ... I was making myself sick ... doc says it was leading to lactic acidosis ... which can eventually kill you.

Plus, I was getting too much protein and my kidneys were not filtering it all ... so was having high levels of micro albimin plus creatinine ... which is not good.

Normal range is 0.5 to 1.1 (some say 1.3) ... but I started out at 0.9, then it went to 1.3, then 1.5, then 1.75 ... once you get to 2.4 you go on dialysis.

So I cut out all protein shakes ... and basically most protein of any sorts.

Unless you are really pumping lots of weights and really trying to build muscle size, find something else without the creatine ... you don't need it.

If you want something to help your muscles recover and not feel so sore the next day, look into L-Glutamine powder ... 5g before a hard workout and then 5g before bed ... others will say that all supplementation is voodoo and a waster of money ... but for me ... I found that L-Glutamine worked great.

I can go blast my legs on a weightlifting workout, and of I try to get a massage the next day the MT can't even touch my upper legs - I'll hop off the table in pain ... if I use the L-Glutamine ... no problems ... the MT can work my quads and hammies as deep as ever.
2009-04-15 11:05 AM
in reply to: #2086020

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

klowman - 2009-04-15 10:58 AM
I didn't realize it was in there, but it was and it was also in 2 other supplements I used to take ... and I was overdosing on creatine ... along with not drinking enough water and working out really hard, having lots of lactic acid buildup ... I was making myself sick ... doc says it was leading to lactic acidosis ... which can eventually kill you.

Plus, I was getting too much protein and my kidneys were not filtering it all ... so was having high levels of micro albimin plus creatinine ... which is not good.

Normal range is 0.5 to 1.1 (some say 1.3) ... but I started out at 0.9, then it went to 1.3, then 1.5, then 1.75 ... once you get to 2.4 you go on dialysis.

Very little of this is true.  Your doc sounds clueless.

2009-04-15 11:25 AM
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
DerekL - 2009-04-15 12:05 PM

klowman - 2009-04-15 10:58 AM
I didn't realize it was in there, but it was and it was also in 2 other supplements I used to take ... and I was overdosing on creatine ... along with not drinking enough water and working out really hard, having lots of lactic acid buildup ... I was making myself sick ... doc says it was leading to lactic acidosis ... which can eventually kill you.

Plus, I was getting too much protein and my kidneys were not filtering it all ... so was having high levels of micro albimin plus creatinine ... which is not good.

Normal range is 0.5 to 1.1 (some say 1.3) ... but I started out at 0.9, then it went to 1.3, then 1.5, then 1.75 ... once you get to 2.4 you go on dialysis.

Very little of this is true.  Your doc sounds clueless.



That's weird.  I had both my regular doctor and the physcian at out company health clinic concerned about my creatinine levels.  The health clinic wanted to send me to a Nephrologist because she feared my kidneys were shutting down.

Is it not a problem if your albumin levels or creatinine levels are too high?  Is this not a sign that it isn't all getting filtered out in the kidneys?

I was also on a medication called Metformin ... since you are a doc you should be able to figure out what for.

The combination of being on that, not drinking enough water, getting too much protein and creatine in my system, and doing heavy loads of both anaerobic and aerobic workouts (sweating profusely and creating lactic acid) ... was definitely making me sick.

That is why I went to the doctor in the first place ... I was geting weak, fatigued, nauseous ... and even dizzy feeling sometimes ... they started testing me and found the albumin and creatinine levels increasing ... they examined all the supplement I was taking and my diet and workout routine ...

Told me to cut out the protein shakes, the creatine ... and drink more water ... took me off Metformin and put me on Actos instead ... been fine ever since ... my albumin and creatinine levels are back to normal and I don't feel sick anymore.

Maybe you should research this a little more before yo go calling someone clueless.  I have a lot of faith in my doctor - she has never steered me wrong yet, and it was the health clinic physician that convinced me to back off on the weight training and look into triathlons ... she was the one that introduced me to tri's and cardio training ... I owe them both a lot of thanks and my improved health.

BTW, why is it that just about every trainer at the YMCA and many of the other bodybuildes up there (those that don't swear by creatine) all told me the same thing or have heard that too much creatine can be harmful to the kidneys, but not you?

http://www.medicinenet.com/creatinine_blood_test/article.htm

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/creatinine-and-creatinine-clearance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactic_acidosis

http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/PUarticles/5.htm

http://www.nutritionalsupplements.com/creatineR140.html

After researching some of these links I think that you don't neccessarily go into dialysis with a creatinine level of 2.4 or higher ... but I think my doc was making a point ... that if it keeps going up that is what it leads to ... and that at 2.4 and higher ... it's very dangerous ... I think I read that at 2.0 .... the kidneys are only working at 50% or filtering out 50% ... so to me .. that's bad enough.


Edited by klowman 2009-04-15 11:44 AM
2009-04-15 11:27 AM
in reply to: #2086047

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
DerekL - 2009-04-15 9:05 AM

klowman - 2009-04-15 10:58 AM
I didn't realize it was in there, but it was and it was also in 2 other supplements I used to take ... and I was overdosing on creatine ... along with not drinking enough water and working out really hard, having lots of lactic acid buildup ... I was making myself sick ... doc says it was leading to lactic acidosis ... which can eventually kill you.

Plus, I was getting too much protein and my kidneys were not filtering it all ... so was having high levels of micro albimin plus creatinine ... which is not good.

Normal range is 0.5 to 1.1 (some say 1.3) ... but I started out at 0.9, then it went to 1.3, then 1.5, then 1.75 ... once you get to 2.4 you go on dialysis.

Very little of this is true.  Your doc sounds clueless.



x2. And what are the levels that you report as a "normal range", etc? It's not for microalbumin, that's not how it is measured. And lactic acidosis is not really found as a major problem unless you have an underlying illness, and you would see a LOT of other signs that are pretty serious.

John
2009-04-15 11:47 AM
in reply to: #2086114

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
tkd.teacher - 2009-04-15 12:27 PM
DerekL - 2009-04-15 9:05 AM

klowman - 2009-04-15 10:58 AM
I didn't realize it was in there, but it was and it was also in 2 other supplements I used to take ... and I was overdosing on creatine ... along with not drinking enough water and working out really hard, having lots of lactic acid buildup ... I was making myself sick ... doc says it was leading to lactic acidosis ... which can eventually kill you.

Plus, I was getting too much protein and my kidneys were not filtering it all ... so was having high levels of micro albimin plus creatinine ... which is not good.

Normal range is 0.5 to 1.1 (some say 1.3) ... but I started out at 0.9, then it went to 1.3, then 1.5, then 1.75 ... once you get to 2.4 you go on dialysis.

Very little of this is true.  Your doc sounds clueless.



x2. And what are the levels that you report as a "normal range", etc? It's not for microalbumin, that's not how it is measured. And lactic acidosis is not really found as a major problem unless you have an underlying illness, and you would see a LOT of other signs that are pretty serious.

John


See my above post.  I think the 2 of you don't know as much about this as you think.

I said my creatinine levels were at 1.75 ... not my micro albumin.  They also looked at BUN and GFR ... but the first thing that changed and they noticed were the increased micro albumin and creatinine levels.

But maybe this is just my body and it's totally different from the rest of the world.  I do know that I got very sick, nauseous, weak ... once I laid off the creatinine I started feeling much better.

Edit...

Hard to find good info on just creatinie levels, cause most links end up pointing to or talking about BUN and eGFR levels ... but found this:

http://www.medicinenet.com/creatinine_blood_test/page2.htm

Where it says normal creatinine levels are 0.6 to 1.2 and that if it gets to 2.0 or higher it could mean severe kidney impairment and may require dialysis.

Edited by klowman 2009-04-15 12:15 PM


2009-04-15 11:48 AM
in reply to: #2083115

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
Also,

This may not apply to the majority ... maybe others don't have other health or risk factors ... but there may be others that just don't know until they find out the hard way .... for me ... it is better to be safe than sorry .... so be careful if you plan on using creatine.

Many people can load up on creatine with no problem, for others it causes a problem.

That's all I'm saying.
2009-04-15 12:12 PM
in reply to: #2083115

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

I just came here to say the chocolate soy milk is awesome. It does NOT taste like regular soy milk. At all.
Other alternatives I've seen in the same aisle are chocolate rice milk and chocolate almond milk. YOMMY.

2009-04-15 12:17 PM
in reply to: #2086161

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
klowman - 2009-04-15 9:47 AM
tkd.teacher - 2009-04-15 12:27 PM
DerekL - 2009-04-15 9:05 AM

klowman - 2009-04-15 10:58 AM
I didn't realize it was in there, but it was and it was also in 2 other supplements I used to take ... and I was overdosing on creatine ... along with not drinking enough water and working out really hard, having lots of lactic acid buildup ... I was making myself sick ... doc says it was leading to lactic acidosis ... which can eventually kill you.

Plus, I was getting too much protein and my kidneys were not filtering it all ... so was having high levels of micro albimin plus creatinine ... which is not good.

Normal range is 0.5 to 1.1 (some say 1.3) ... but I started out at 0.9, then it went to 1.3, then 1.5, then 1.75 ... once you get to 2.4 you go on dialysis.

Very little of this is true.  Your doc sounds clueless.



x2. And what are the levels that you report as a "normal range", etc? It's not for microalbumin, that's not how it is measured. And lactic acidosis is not really found as a major problem unless you have an underlying illness, and you would see a LOT of other signs that are pretty serious.

John


See my above post.  I think the 2 of you don't know as much about this as you think.

I said my creatinine levels were at 1.75 ... not my micro albumin.  They also looked at BUN and GFR ... but the first thing that changed and they noticed were the increased micro albumin and creatinine levels.

But maybe this is just my body and it's totally different from the rest of the world.  I do know that I got very sick, nauseous, weak ... once I laid off the creatinine I started feeling much better.


Creatinene levels can get to 10 before they start looking at dialysis. And the way you worded your post was rather vague.

On Metformin, and you got nauseous, weak, etc etc. These are side effects of metformin, and lactic acidosis is a rare side effect. Rather than blame the creatine, I'd be way more suspicious of the met than I would the creatine. Add to that what was probably somewhat haphazard training with poor hydration and nutrition, and I'm not surprised that there were problems.  (Edited to add: The haphazard training is just a guess, I know how *I* trained in college when I wasn't on a team... )

Also, just a random thought, what were you mixing your creatine with (The stuff not in the protein powder)? Certain fluids (such as citrus juices) will break down the creatine into creatinene before you ever even get it in your mouth, so if you were doing that, you were basically drinking creatinene not creatine. If you were doing that, I would be not at all surprised to find elevated creatinene levels in the urine. Did your doc order a CrCl test as well? (Createnine clearance test)

And yes, I'm not a doctor. But, I do have a lot of emergency medicine background along with a degree in kinesiology, and your original post (Which did NOT include the metformin, which changes a lot of the perception) was worded in a way that suggested either you didn't understand your doctor, or your doctor was rather vague in general.

John

Edited by tkd.teacher 2009-04-15 12:22 PM
2009-04-15 12:20 PM
in reply to: #2086161

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
klowman - 2009-04-15 9:47 AM

Hard to find good info on just creatinie levels, cause most links end up pointing to or talking about BUN and eGFR levels ... but found this:

http://www.medicinenet.com/creatinine_blood_test/page2.htm

Where it says normal creatinine levels are 0.6 to 1.2 and that if it gets to 2.0 or higher it could mean severe kidney impairment and may require dialysis.


Reading comprehension, my friend.

A person with only one kidney may have a normal level of about 1.8 or 1.9. Creatinine levels that reach 2.0 or more in babies and 10.0 or more in adults may indicate severe kidney impairment and the need for a dialysis machine to remove wastes from the blood.

John
2009-04-15 1:45 PM
in reply to: #2086108

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
There are some important differences.

1.  Any outside substance that the body needs to metabolize and/or flush out when taken in large quantities will take some degree of toll on the liver or kidneys.

2.  The issue with high creatinine levels is an issue of why they are high. (Forgive me for not citing my source right now.)

In traditional people, a high level of creatinine levels usually means A) kidney function is diminished because you are not adequately clearing the normal amount that you are producing and/or B) dehydration.  My understanding of what I have read, is that this is a symptom - not a cause.

If you have supra-human doses as a supplement, high levels could just mean that normal kidney function cannot keep up with the elevated amount of creatine-to-creatinine production you have created through supplementation.

What I have not seen answered by research, not that I have been up on it, is at what point is elevated creatinine go beyond a symptom  and actually becomes a problem in and of itself... this would answer the question, "How much is too much?"


Always watch what you read, I remember reading a commentary about two kids on creatine having almost lethal levels of dehydration... then reading the counter-article slamming the fact that they ommitted the small detail of, in addition to taking creatine, they were wrestlers in the sauna trying to drop 10-15 lbs of water to make weight for a competition....



All in all, I like to ask local college sports programs what doctors they use.

There is a huge difference between people  that understand athletes and those you deal with the general public.


klowman - 2009-04-15 9:25 AM
DerekL - 2009-04-15 12:05 PM

klowman - 2009-04-15 10:58 AM
I didn't realize it was in there, but it was and it was also in 2 other supplements I used to take ... and I was overdosing on creatine ... along with not drinking enough water and working out really hard, having lots of lactic acid buildup ... I was making myself sick ... doc says it was leading to lactic acidosis ... which can eventually kill you.

Plus, I was getting too much protein and my kidneys were not filtering it all ... so was having high levels of micro albimin plus creatinine ... which is not good.

Normal range is 0.5 to 1.1 (some say 1.3) ... but I started out at 0.9, then it went to 1.3, then 1.5, then 1.75 ... once you get to 2.4 you go on dialysis.

Very little of this is true.  Your doc sounds clueless.



That's weird.  I had both my regular doctor and the physcian at out company health clinic concerned about my creatinine levels.  The health clinic wanted to send me to a Nephrologist because she feared my kidneys were shutting down.

Is it not a problem if your albumin levels or creatinine levels are too high?  Is this not a sign that it isn't all getting filtered out in the kidneys?

I was also on a medication called Metformin ... since you are a doc you should be able to figure out what for.

The combination of being on that, not drinking enough water, getting too much protein and creatine in my system, and doing heavy loads of both anaerobic and aerobic workouts (sweating profusely and creating lactic acid) ... was definitely making me sick.

That is why I went to the doctor in the first place ... I was geting weak, fatigued, nauseous ... and even dizzy feeling sometimes ... they started testing me and found the albumin and creatinine levels increasing ... they examined all the supplement I was taking and my diet and workout routine ...

Told me to cut out the protein shakes, the creatine ... and drink more water ... took me off Metformin and put me on Actos instead ... been fine ever since ... my albumin and creatinine levels are back to normal and I don't feel sick anymore.

Maybe you should research this a little more before yo go calling someone clueless.  I have a lot of faith in my doctor - she has never steered me wrong yet, and it was the health clinic physician that convinced me to back off on the weight training and look into triathlons ... she was the one that introduced me to tri's and cardio training ... I owe them both a lot of thanks and my improved health.

BTW, why is it that just about every trainer at the YMCA and many of the other bodybuildes up there (those that don't swear by creatine) all told me the same thing or have heard that too much creatine can be harmful to the kidneys, but not you?

http://www.medicinenet.com/creatinine_blood_test/article.htm

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/creatinine-and-creatinine-clearance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactic_acidosis

http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/PUarticles/5.htm

http://www.nutritionalsupplements.com/creatineR140.html

After researching some of these links I think that you don't neccessarily go into dialysis with a creatinine level of 2.4 or higher ... but I think my doc was making a point ... that if it keeps going up that is what it leads to ... and that at 2.4 and higher ... it's very dangerous ... I think I read that at 2.0 .... the kidneys are only working at 50% or filtering out 50% ... so to me .. that's bad enough.


2009-04-15 1:47 PM
in reply to: #2086108

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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

klowman - 2009-04-15 11:25 AM
DerekL - 2009-04-15 12:05 PM

klowman - 2009-04-15 10:58 AM
I didn't realize it was in there, but it was and it was also in 2 other supplements I used to take ... and I was overdosing on creatine ... along with not drinking enough water and working out really hard, having lots of lactic acid buildup ... I was making myself sick ... doc says it was leading to lactic acidosis ... which can eventually kill you.

Plus, I was getting too much protein and my kidneys were not filtering it all ... so was having high levels of micro albimin plus creatinine ... which is not good.

Normal range is 0.5 to 1.1 (some say 1.3) ... but I started out at 0.9, then it went to 1.3, then 1.5, then 1.75 ... once you get to 2.4 you go on dialysis.

Very little of this is true.  Your doc sounds clueless.



That's weird.  I had both my regular doctor and the physcian at out company health clinic concerned about my creatinine levels.  The health clinic wanted to send me to a Nephrologist because she feared my kidneys were shutting down.

Is it not a problem if your albumin levels or creatinine levels are too high?  Is this not a sign that it isn't all getting filtered out in the kidneys?

I was also on a medication called Metformin ... since you are a doc you should be able to figure out what for.

The combination of being on that, not drinking enough water, getting too much protein and creatine in my system, and doing heavy loads of both anaerobic and aerobic workouts (sweating profusely and creating lactic acid) ... was definitely making me sick.

That is why I went to the doctor in the first place ... I was geting weak, fatigued, nauseous ... and even dizzy feeling sometimes ... they started testing me and found the albumin and creatinine levels increasing ... they examined all the supplement I was taking and my diet and workout routine ...

Told me to cut out the protein shakes, the creatine ... and drink more water ... took me off Metformin and put me on Actos instead ... been fine ever since ... my albumin and creatinine levels are back to normal and I don't feel sick anymore.

Maybe you should research this a little more before yo go calling someone clueless.  I have a lot of faith in my doctor - she has never steered me wrong yet, and it was the health clinic physician that convinced me to back off on the weight training and look into triathlons ... she was the one that introduced me to tri's and cardio training ... I owe them both a lot of thanks and my improved health.

BTW, why is it that just about every trainer at the YMCA and many of the other bodybuildes up there (those that don't swear by creatine) all told me the same thing or have heard that too much creatine can be harmful to the kidneys, but not you?

http://www.medicinenet.com/creatinine_blood_test/article.htm

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/creatinine-and-creatinine-clearance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactic_acidosis

http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/PUarticles/5.htm

http://www.nutritionalsupplements.com/creatineR140.html

After researching some of these links I think that you don't neccessarily go into dialysis with a creatinine level of 2.4 or higher ... but I think my doc was making a point ... that if it keeps going up that is what it leads to ... and that at 2.4 and higher ... it's very dangerous ... I think I read that at 2.0 .... the kidneys are only working at 50% or filtering out 50% ... so to me .. that's bad enough.

I'm quite well versed on the subject, but thanks for the suggestion. 

The truth is that most docs don't know jack about creatine and have forgotten some basic physiology that answers the question.  Glomerular filtration rate (GFR) is what we're concerned with.  Creatinine gives us a rough ESTIMATE of GFR in normal individual.  Exogenous creatine ingestion ARTIFICIALLY raises creatinine levels (due to spontaneous conversion int the periphery) without affecting GFR.  It is a FALSE ASSUMPTION that elevated creatinine levels automatically equal a decreased GFR.  Somebody who doesn't know this will assume that a rising creatinine = kidney failure.  The sad part is that I've had nephrologists who didn't make that leap until it was shown to them as well.

And then you posted stuff about lactic acidosis and arbitrary numbers meaning automatic dialysis.  Both thoughts were way out there.  I merely wanted people reading this to know that these aren't facts.  I understand that you don't care what I think as evidenced by your past reactions to my posts as well as this one.  This is for everybody who wants a critical analysis of the issue.  Feel free to do what you'd like.

2009-04-15 2:10 PM
in reply to: #2086108

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
klowman - 2009-04-15 9:25 AM

BTW, why is it that just about every trainer at the YMCA and many of the other bodybuildes up there (those that don't swear by creatine) all told me the same thing or have heard that too much creatine can be harmful to the kidneys, but not you?



I missed this originally. Too much of ANYTHING can be bad for you. Even water.

Creatine gets a bad rap because people are stupid. They think "Well, some is good, so more must be better!", and start pounding it down, expecting to look like Arnie in 3 weeks.

Where you get the problems is that people don't read the directions and cautions, (One of which is increased hydration while taking creatine), and then they run into problems, and point at the creatine and scream "evil evil!!", not correlating poor implementation with the end results.

Creatine has been known about since the early 1830's, used as a supplement since the early part of this century, and tested many many different ways. In and of itself, used according to established practices, it's safe. It's even classified as a food substance by the FDA. It's when it's abused, misused, or there are underlying conditions that you run into problems.

John
2009-04-15 2:15 PM
in reply to: #2083115

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Elite
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Whispering Pines, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

You ppl have scared the crap out of me...

I started training a year ago and was at 178lbs (or so) and 5'9".

I am currently at 163lbs, while still eating like crazy, so I decided to buy a supplement/shake to add calories/protein to my diet. I bought that Body Fortress blend (chocolate) and have been taking it for the past 2 days (blended with 10oz of milk and a banana) after a hard workout.

now, i'm considering scrapping the stuff...

maybe i'll just drink more beer...and chocolate milk



Edited by tri_d00d 2009-04-15 2:33 PM
2009-04-15 3:01 PM
in reply to: #2083115

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Veteran
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State College, PA
Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine
Anything can be analyzed to the point of being scary.  As Joe Jackson said, "Everything give you cancer.. Don't play that piano!"

Anyway, Penn State uses Endurox R4 which has the right carb/protein ratio and supposedly nothing really horrible for you.  I went through a couple of containers of it before becoming a Hershey's chocolate and 1% milk-convert.

I read an analysis and comparison recently that kept me happy about my switch to chocolate milk:

http://dcrainmaker.blogspot.com/2009/03/chocolate-milk-vs-endurox-r4-recovery.html

However, if you're not shy about spending the $ and don't like the taste of chocolate milk, this is a great alternative.

ASIDE: that guy's blog is a wonderful resource and interesting to read.  I wonder if he's on here.  Anyone know?
2009-04-15 3:17 PM
in reply to: #2083115

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Post-workout recovery drinks & creatine

BTW, just to add a caveat to what I said earlier.  This all applies to people with normal kidney function.  Obviously if you underlying kidney issues, you shouldn't be taking anything that causes an additional load to be placed upon them.  The comment about the doctor sounding clueless doesn't mean I think he was right or wrong in this particular case (since diabetics often have underlying kidney dysfunction).  The "facts" as given were either outright scare tactics or the product of somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about.



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