Nautica New York City Triathlon : Official Thread (Page 11)

I saw this happening a lot too.  I was in the second to last wave and I'm not fast, but I saw it a lot when I was nearing The Bronx and the fast cyclists were coming back down.  There were a lot of "On your left" shouts that sounded really frustrated.  I didn't personally encouter any grevious miscarriages of ettiquete, just a few times a rider strayed a little too far to the left when he wasn't passing anyone.  I was surprised there was no mention of this in the race briefing.

As far as starting faster waves at the beginning, my assumption was the faster waves went at the end so that overall, the race would be done sooner.  If you had the slowest waves go off last, they would finish even later, meaning longer street closings etc...

Edited to add, thanks for volunteering!

Edited by andysrc 2009-07-27 2:42 PM

I just wanted to add a couple of things: I thought it was generally a great race - I did see some frustration on the bike (I was one of those slower women, and was annoyed to hear someone swearing at me after the "on your left" when I, too was passing someone).

The volunteers were great (thank you!!), and I had a blast.

As for the shoe thing, that REALLY sucks, the person next to me stole two of my water bottles after the race (one from on my bike!) but I think letting someone's shoes get soaked is MUCH worse.

-Alex

all right, i am gonna interject here a little with what i am familiar with.

All participants were given a 2 page USAT synopsis of the rules explaining riding etiquette, how to pass, what passing, blocking and riding left penalties are and what they were for and how to avoid them. I read all the paperwork i am given, it is there for a reason. there should have been no question about riding and RACE ettiquette if you read what was provided.

Some of the fastest bike splits of the day were the last 10-13 waves other than Pro or Elite age group, they included ALL MENS a/g except 40-44 and 55+, this includes Clydes/athena's. You take into the fact that the fast men were riding an average of 20-23mph and you have a recipie for disaster, considering some of the stragglers from earlier waves are going 13-16mph tops.

the Red transition start was delayed 15 mins after the last yellow trans wave went off to aviod bottlenecking and crossing at transition. that seemed to work well, except that it made the last 5 miles and turn and finish a complete disaster with a ton of people coming in to transition at significantly differing speeds. Not to mention T2 which now had all the athletes coming in at the same time it seemed.

the start waves were jumbled due to the mishandling of the tide chart and late start from last year, that caused a large number of athletes to miss the tide and even got some slack or reverse tide, making the swim near impossible, and very very dangerous. they wanted to make sure that the same people don't keep getting stuck with a lack of current for "the fastest mile swim in the world". So they "Mixed it up"   EPIC FAIL in my opinion.

Frustration and having to make sure the people riding side by side chatting understood you were overtaking them at twice the speed they were going, the "on your left" quickly just turned to "LEFT", especially on the return. Some might have been frustration, but alot had to do with the fast guys yelling it every 3 seconds and needing to let people know they were rapidly approaching. It was VERY dangerous the last 7-8 miles, it was mentally taxing, and quite honestly i could not wait to get off the bike. I did not enjoy the return trip from the Bronx. there was a ton of passing between the cones, 4 and 5 wide up hills, and it was quite nerve racking having to be aware of in front and behind. Even if you were averaging 20mph, you had to slow to avoid other riders, to be overtaken by guys with less patience going by you and now you cant get around. So people just stopped being nice and really started to hammer the last miles. Lots of pace lines, nothing you can do about it, too many people on the road, no where to go.

Lastly...this was a RACE....not a Sunday on the Bronx River Parkway, for Pete's sake this was the PARA-Triathlete National Championship race, i am sorry to sound so stuffy about it, but last i checked we were all wearing timing chips, regardless if some of us will ever podium or not including myself. I was there to give 110% for 3 hours, that is what i had trained for, that is what i did, as safely as possible, considering the overwhelming circumstances of the race and race logistics.

This is a race I WILL NOT do next year, no doubt about it, not my cup of tea. I could not imagine having to travel in from out of state to do this. Other than seeing old friends, acuainting myself with new ones or ones i had not met IRL yet, i did not enjoy the weekend, not one bit. My first and last NYC Tri. I think i will volunteer next year, just to see friends i will only see once a year.

Wow. It's a shame to see so many negative posts. What kind of a bum leaves someone's shoes out to get wet?

I had a good time at the race. It was my first Oly and my 4th overall Tri. I can't say my time was so fast, but I finished. Not bad for a guy who works as a lawyer 50 + hours a week, and who less than two years ago didn't own a bike or know how to swim properly in competition.

I thought the swim start went fine (I was in M 45-49), and had a good swim. It was my best swim ever in a Tri.

Transition seemed fine. I thought it was organized better than I expected. The bike was tougher than I expected, but it was OK. Certainly, I got passed by faster men in the later waves, but I don't recall a lot of yelling or cursing. Lot's of LEFT or ON THE LEFT. On the other hand, at least three guys from my Tri Club said encouraging things as they passed because they saw my jersey. Although I will agree that the ride was not as friendly as the other (smaller) tris I have done. Even as the road dried out, there was a lot of water on the course, and it was crowded and narrow up in the Bronx. There was a crash near the turnaround in the Bronx. So it was a fast ride, and there was some danger to it. I don't see how anyone could have avoided a close call given the crowds.

The run was tough. I'm glad I got through it. There was a lot of encouragement from the volunteers.

The volunteers and the crowd were great. Also, I appreciate the advice that I got from this message board: I waited 10 seconds at the swim start to let the crowd go, I swam up the dock at the end, I knew enough to bring sufficient hydration. The list goes on. Thanks to all of you. I'm sorry I did not get a chance to see you there, but maybe at the next race.

I would do it again. It was a blast to run through the finish line.

Pics are up! Here is mburkhart and I at the finish, we look like we hardly took a stroll in the park







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It's interesting reading all the post-race comments - this was my first race so for better or worse I simply assumed that this is what triathlons are like normally. I'm used to biking in a paceline, so it took a little concentration to stop myself from doing that here although with the number of bikes it was impossible to avoid completely. The only time I was annoyed was when I had to shout, "On your right" because a guy was going slowly in the left lane.

A big thank you to the people here, without you I would have had a far more stressful day out, sorry I missed you all on the day. The volunteers were wonderful!

Is it rude to ask what sorts of times people posted? I confess that I'm curious to see how well I did but don't want to be the one dragging the tone down.

P.S. Now I'll have a photo for my profile, hurrah!

You guys look like spokesmodels for 2XU! Great picture.

It's not rude at all. Most of us have it in our logs already and will post RRs as well. That's what this site is about, sharing of information. My overall was 2:44:40. Swim: 22:35, T1: 6:41, Bike: 1:26:28, T2: 2:13, Run: 46:44. I'm hoping to get my RR up tonight with details.

No problem Phil, like Kristin said, that is what the site is for!!

my total was  2h 40m 25s   Swim 19m56s  T1 4m 09s  Bike 1h 12m 28s   T2 1m 27s   Run 1h 2m 08s

double post

Edited by Rudedog55 2009-07-27 8:33 PM

wow..a three for...sorry





Edited by Rudedog55 2009-07-27 8:34 PM

Just to add a little fuel to the fire. This was my 2nd time doing NYC and the last time was 5 years ago and I said then that I would never do it again, well lo and behold they started a first responder wave and as the founder of the NYPD Triathlon Team I signed up. My race went ok until I got an un-repairable flat about 19 miles in and had to call it a day.

The way that the waves are set up are rediculous but they cant have the streets closed all day. I do not understand why people have the need to pass you on the bike right after you pass them. I am an average cyclist and was avg'ing a little over 20 mph when I flatted, but seriously, people take offense to being passed. When someone yells "on your left" or any version of that move over. I had 3 guys who would draft off of me when I passed them, and then on the down hills they would hammer just to slow down on the flats and eventually get passed and ride my wheel again. Its not a draft legal race, dont get out of your saddle when i or anyone goes by you just to "keep up" Esp If you were in an earlier wave and you've already given back 3+ minutes.

And not for nothing but I know that TnT does a good job fund raising and stands for a good cause but when the waves go slowest to fastest they are the worst. (by they, I dont mean all, just the groups that are out for a stroll on closed roads.) The best races are ones that give TnT their own wave.

This race was dangerous and had terrible logistics. When I first did this race, the race fee was also $125 now its 1/2 the price of an Ironman. Like anything labeled with NYC, its a money making tourist trap. But that being said, if you are not from NY and the race gets you to take a vacation here then its different, but IMHO, not worth it for locals.

Sounds like this isn't the first choice of race for some, which races do people recommend that're close the NYC? I'd love to do some more but don't have a car to get out to places like Harriman.

I managed 2:58, which was nice considering my aim was to go under 3 hours. (Swim 0:22, Bike 1:26, Run 1:02 and the transitions for the rest.)

I have to say, I liked my impression of the race better when I finished instead of hearing all the negative experiences people had.  I had a few inconsiderate/dangerous people on the bike who didn't seem to feel the need to let me know they were passing, but nothing that made me regret the day. 

I think when doing a race with the complicated logistics of NYC, you have to be prepared to compromise a little.  There may be a little backup at transition, and the bike course may get a little more crowded than we like.  This is not Iowa with sprawling fields.  Getting into and out of the transition area is complicated and technical. 

The majority of people want to do well and achieve whatever goals they set for themselves, but not at the expense of injury to themselves or others, or unsportsmanlike behavior.  Many of us get to train in NYC.  Personally, I like to race in my backyard, and I will gladly put up with the logistics to do so.  I like racing in my hometown.  I feel a great pride in doing so. I think there are ways that some of these issues can be improved upon, but if you don't feel the desire to give a little to race in this great city...DON'T.  And that's okay too.  Just like living here...it's not for everyone.

I'm doing it again next year.

I'm also glad that all of these issues got aired, although I am very sorry it was such a negative experience for some of us.  Personally, my race went well.  I had only a few incidents worth mentioning: 1) on bike out mount area, a guy fell over, and nearly took me out.  Not blaming him, but man, I thought my race was over for a second there!  2) I passed someone on the bike back in (around GW), and yelled "Left!", and he got confused, and steered to the left!  Near crash.

All this being said, I think that the takeaway is that the race officials have to do a better job of both educating the beginners, and also warning more veteran racers to watch out for novices -- after all, these types of issues are part of the experience.  I think of Tour de France bikers who put in so much effort, and then accidentally get knocked off by a clueless unruly fan.  The standard reply is, "well it's part of the race.  I shouldn't have been riding so close to the curb", or something similar.  I think we could all adopt a bit more of this philosophy, and just acknowledge that these races will always include slower inexperienced riders, as well as faster riders who may be frustrated with us as we get into the left lane to overtake slower riders!

To conclude, though, I thought the race was great, personally.  The volunteers were absolutely fantastic, and the course itself was really unique.  Anyway, I'm also really glad I stumbled onto this website, and I hope I get to meet more of you all in future races, even if some of you don't do the NYC Tri in the future!  Cheers, Eric.

Hi:

I loved this race.

Let me say it again.

I LOVED this race.  It was fast, fun, and furious. :-) Ha.  With apparently - a lot of fury on the bike.

I for one am super grateful when one of those super fast male riders on the return from the Bronx yelled out "Left".  I was happy that they yelled anything, for I did not want to be one of the crashes that I saw coming back.  "Stay on your right!"  "Left!"  I was ecstatic.  Personally, I did not want to suffer loss of limb.

It was a little frustrating not being able to pass super slower riders.  It felt like there were three lanes:  Super slow riders, moderate riders trying to pass the super slow riders (but were getting stuck behind them.. aka - me), and fast riders.  I found the bike..perilous but FUN. :-D  I prayed throughout the whole thing!

I am with TNT.  I did not do TNT for this particular race but have done/am scheduled to do three other TNT races this year.  I love them and they were the ones who taught me how to race.  Yes, I did a lot of self-research.  Yes, I read the USAT guidelines (which everyone ought to do!)

Here's the thing that I wish to say about TNT (which again I love).  For this race, they had over 400 people registered for the NYC Tri.  They are generally awesome at organization, weekly workouts, meetings, etc.  They provide experienced mentors to mentor the beginners, which I appreciated.  However, this race there was a huge amount of people and the thing is - you cannot MAKE all of these people go to the information meetings.  Therefore, sure there are beginners who may not even have gone to trainings or meetings - wearing the TNT colors - umm, being slow and not following USAT guidelines.

I trained with TNT for my very first race (not this one).  I went to the meetings and bugged the coaches.  I learned about race nutrition, rules of the road (like how to bike with others -passing - pointing out potholes - staying on the right - watching for traffic, children, little old ladies, clowns, etc.), clothing, equipment, how to fix a flat tire (multiple times), etc.

However, again, I went to all of the valuable information meetings/trainings they provided and listened to my coaches.

There are some, who do not go to all the stuff and with a group of THAT size - it is understandably hard to keep track.  I went to an open water swim with them two weeks before the race and there were maybe 150 people there - certainly not 400.  That open water swim was important.  The coach in my group announced things like - the bottom of Hudson is black mud - do not stop swimming until your hands touch the step, etc.  A lot of TNTers would have missed that announcement I assume.

Anyway, on every team, there may be some people who don't pay attention/don't go to trainings/etc.  So yes, I defend the organization. They are fantastic and run a great program and do the best they can absent going to people's houses, handcuffing them to the car, and dragging them to trainings!

However, in you guys' defense, I understand your frustration.  I caught myself at one point (after being tired of being stuck behind slow riders who wouldn't stay on the right) yelling out, "You are supposed to stay on the right - it's single file people!!!!" And then realized that I had carelessly yelled at another TNTer.  I was like, "oh crapp! Oops"  and after that stayed quiet the whole ride and just tried to encourage people.  I felt my bike time was crapp and that I got stuck behind people a lot.  I mean I couldn't go around them due to the super speedy people, however, in my mind it was either - try to make a fantastic time or - potentially get into a gruesome bike crash and lose the ability to walk.

Since this is for fun, and I am not a pro athlete getting paid, I opted for the former. So yes, I lost time but I finished the race, had a great time, and hope to do this next year!

(And yes they messed up the waves/current.  Oh well.  I guess it's hard to do logistics in this town.)

I don't think I would fly to it though.  Nah.  California Wildflower was so much fun - lots of open land - very well manned - not as dangerous/clogged.  But as someone who lives here - hey! It's great to race in one's own backyard (as previously mentioned.)  This was the race I feared believe it or not and so it is the only race this year that I am actually proud of. :-D

And hey, New York City is an INTENSE place, so it only goes to figure that the race would be equally intense!!! (This is why I feared it - but it was SO MUCH FUN!!  My friends came to see me and two friends gave me flowers later on.  It was great.  My elderly father camped out at the finish line the whole time eating sandwiches and drinking water and said that he too had a great time.

Soo this is long and I must go to bed.  God bless and have a good night everyone.  Happy racing!

dbw27

Edited by dbw27 2009-07-27 11:24 PM

Wow what a race!  I had an absolute blast!  It was my first oly and I loved everything about it. The swim was great and I managed an 18:40, a full 9 minutes faster than my pool split, lol.  A good tip for next year, you will know that you getting close to the finish barge when the water turns black as night.  I think a lot of people put their feet too early and kicked up all the sediment (not me thanks to the tips here!)

The bike course was just a bit crowded but I found everyone to be generally courteous.  And to be honest I have been on more crowded courses with more beginners than this one.  I think what made it exhilarating was the speeds we were hitting on the down hills (I maxed out at 37.9 mph, fastest my bike has ever gone i think, lol).  I do think they made a mistake sending my wave(s) of 34's and unders out behind some much slower waves.  I felt bad for some of those stragglers, we were blowing by them at high speed.  I also got a bit tired of calling left every 5 seconds, so if i could take it wide, i didn't bother.  I also glanced over my shoulder when i could each i passed to be certain nobody was flying up on the left.  I found everyone to be encouraging each other up the hills.  My transition neighbor caught up to me right at the end and was like "i think were neighbors!" and we negotiated T2 right next to each with no problems and exchanged good luck and see you out there, etc.  He seemed like a cool guy.

The run was also fun, and although i suffered through much it, the volunteers and other runner we great at encouraging us to push harder up the hills.

 

I was even able to grab my 5 year old son in the last 200 feet and have him run in with me, and to top it all off they announced my name as I finished, and they even gave him a finisher’s medal, needless to say he was ecstatic!

 

My only regret is that I did not get to meet any of you out there.  I looked but there were sooo many people, oh well next time.  A big thanks to people in this thread and BT in general, couldn’t done it w/o ya!

 

-C

 

Edited by czoog 2009-07-28 6:57 AM

I respectfully disagree with you. Yes, you have to compromise for logistics, which include things like a mandatory race briefing, bike check in the day before at a transition location that's a haul from the subway, the long run from swim exit to transition due to what Riverside Park has to offer. Those are logistics. Grossly overselling a race where the bike course is sometimes down to one, very narrow lane, is not logistics. This is a competitive pro race and the parathlete championships. This is part of a nationwide network for the Toyota Cup. This is not a small local race where things like waiting in line to mount your bike and needing to spend 25 miles avoiding a crash should be part of the experience.

I did a race in April with over 4,000 people and none of this occurred because the course was able to support that capacity. And it was run by the same RD.

I don't think any of us are here simply venting or bashing the race. But people need to know what this race is really like before going into it so I think it's good to hear the many experiences.

I agree with alot of the comments above, there were awesome parts of the race. I loved the run up 79th street, it was surreal, i was even looking at the skyscrapers and my visor fell off, the dood behind me stopped and picked it up for me. The volunteers were awesome, there were plenty and did a great job!! I was high fiving them and the uniformed police that i went by, trying to thank as many as i could. I was encouraged and gave encouragement whenever i could, said nice things to the athletes that were obviously having a real bad day, got lots of that from peeps blowing by me on the run, when it was tough for me.   The race was not all bad, but there was alot that could be done differently and some seriously dangerous issues that need to be discussed. I.e. the merge back onto the HH from the Mosholu, timing of the waves etc.

As much as we all like to see people doing there first tri's and the support systems they bring, which add to the electricity and lore of the race, this is not a beginner race, this is a hard, hot, fast Olympic distance that i personally believe alot of people overlook. I am not saying that they should not do it, to each their own, but at least know what you are in for before you toe the line, and understand the consequences of your actions, since they not only affect you, but people around you as well. No one wants to see someone lying on the ground bleeding or unconscious because of a careless or thoughtless action.

So we have a decent discussion here, people with varying degrees of skill, training and goals. we agree on some stuff and disagree on other items, such is the nature of the human species. And that is also what makes this sport so great. I am sure we all appreciate everyones elses feeback whether we agree or not, but like has been stated, this site is designed to share information with our peers, whether positive or negative, and to share these opinions with others so that they know all sides of all the stories, viewed by different eyes, to hopefully make an educated decision in the future for this race or others.

I think what you said is interesting and, in a way, shows why some people might get frustrated with TNT.  Why did you feel bad yelling only after you found out the people were part of TNT?  Being part of TNT doesn't make them exempt from the rules.  If someone wasn't staying on the right, maybe they didn't know the rule or forgot, but being part of TNT doesn't mean you were wrong to remind them (I'm not saying that it should be your responsibility to do so, just that you shouldn't feel badly about doing it).

Anyway, I enjoyed the race, and being a slower biker in the second to last wave, I didn't run into many problems.  I'm looking forward to doing it again next year!

I find it interesting that people on a website called "Beginner Triathlete" are having an issue with first timers.  We all begin somewhere, and whether it's in NYC or at some more esoteric location we are allowed to do that.  This was my second, and it was the experience of a lifetime. I loved it.  This is not a cheap race to host either, and with 30% of the field being beginners, you have to understand they probably underwrote a lot of the expenses.  Without them the race probably would not take place.

To me it's the perfect beginners race, because it's it's ALSO the perfect experienced Triathlete's race. What better place is there for people to become a fan for life, you compete side by side with pros and elites, and after the finish line, no one could tell the difference!

 There were volunteers and help EVERYWHERE.  From the Swim to central park, there was plenty of help and comraderie. I guarantee that most of the beginners will do it again, and THAT can only help the sport!

This is a great discussion. I think it’s great that everyone cares so much about this race. It’s ironic that in a city that seems to have so much of everything else, there are so few options as far as larger nationally recognized triathlons to people in the NYC area. Other than the NYC tri, most of the other big races are more than 4 hours away (IMLP, Eagleman, Timberman, IMRI, Nations Tri in DC, etc.) I’m always jealous of the folks in AZ, CA, FL, and TX who seem to have an abundance of these kinds of races to participate in all year round. Don’t get me wrong, I love the little local races as well, but the “pomp and circumstance” of the big events is hard to beat. I wish there were more of them around that didn’t require a day off from work and a hotel stay somewhere.

One thing I can tell you about the RD’s for this race is that they love to get feedback. Several of the features of the race and many of the changes that happen from year to year come from suggestions that they get from athletes and volunteers. As always, it’s best to suggest solutions, not just to complain about problems, but I’ve know them to be really receptive to constructive criticism.

FWIW, I wrote the RD yesterday and mentioned the feedback that I’ve been hearing about the congestion on the bike course and on the run. I made the suggestion of perhaps having a TnT-only wave so that they could all run together without worrying about obstructing anyone else. I got a response right away and he said that, in their view it was primarily a first-timer and not specifically a TnT issue, and that they were aware of the problem and were “on it” as he put it. I would look for some kind of adaptation next year to address some of the problems, even if it’s as simple as spending a few extra minutes in the race briefing to discuss etiquette and rules.

That’s certainly a fair point. I don’t think anyone has an issue with first-timers in general since, as you pointed out, we all were at one time—probably not that long ago. I think the problem is that the sheer number of first-timers in this race is disproportionate to the size of the field, and the number of inexperienced and perhaps slower athletes creates problems that don’t exist in other races. Safety is foremost, of course, but things like etiquette and an understanding of the rules are important as well.

No one’s suggesting that they ban first-timers from the race, I don’t think, but I do think that the RD’s would be doing a service to everyone, first timers and experienced athletes alike, if they spent a little more time ensuring that the less experienced athletes understood what was involved and what was expected of them.

I said in an earlier post that one of my pet peeves about the way this race is marketed is that they tend to promote it as a first-timer-friendly race, which, strictly speaking, I don’t think it is. Yes, the swim is fast, and yes it’s in a great tourist city, and yes there are lots of volunteers, a great expo, and plenty of support. But it’s also an intimidating swim if open water scares you, a challenging bike course and a hot, hilly run. I think that too many people, TnT-ers and otherwise, come into this race under-trained and under-prepared as a result of the way it’s marketed.

I loved this race it was an intense experience! It was fun finishing the swim surrounded by folks from the same wave for once.

The logistics for this race will never be perfect but I really only had issues with two things. One is that I picked up a stone in my right foot that got buried deeply and cut me quite badly. Carpet is feasible! The second is that there was an area on the bike course about a half mile after the Northern turn around where the course narrowed to about two feet wide on the exit/access ramp. That seemed to me to be a disaster waiting to happen. If it can't be changed then they need to post a couple of volunteers to yell out a warning. It should also be highlighted in the pre-race briefing.

I agree with many of the other posters here that the pre-race briefing should emphasize the rules of the bike course and just how congested it will be.

Times for me were 2:36 overall with 0:20 swim 1:17 bike 0:49 run with way too much time in transition digging the stone out of my foot and staunching the bleeding ...

I would love to do this race again!

Edited by dougiegr 2009-07-28 3:29 PM