I don't know how to run fast...

I sure would like to know this as well... *sigh*  My 'comfortable' pace is about 12min/mile.  I feel like I'm going in slow motion in comparison to everyone else!  And talk about hurting me -- I was probably in the first 1/2 of racers when I came out of the water at Anchorman, but since the swim included a .75 mile run, I was second from last by the time I hit transition.  

Well, you got it in your last line.  There isn't much more to it than that.  You need more running endurance.  Takes time.  And work.  Being 'fast' (relatively) comes easier to some than to others.  But everyone gets faster than they are now in basically the same way.

OK, here is the 'question' then:

for you faster runners.  does 7:00 miles actually feel like a jog, or a haul arse run?  (Even if it's a haul arse run that you can maintain for hours)?

For fast runners (say someone running in the low 5:00s/mi for a 10k), 7:00 would feel easy.  They could maintain it for hours.

Edited by JohnnyKay 2009-06-17 2:41 PM

I can remember waaaaay back in my youth <clue that it was a long time ago>  the popular thinking was to run on a slight down hill to get your legs/body used to going faster than it was used to.  Not that it would suddenly make you fast but to allow your body to see what it felt like...  

I"m curious if this is still considered usefull???????????

Plus you are a big guy,, height wise I'm talking I wonder if many taller people 6'6" and up are faster runners

I'm wondering what's to be gained by comparing yourself to elite athletes? IMHO there's a significant genetic component at work as well, and no amount of training is going to get you me down to speeds comparable to the elite runners.

I swear I feel like I can barely turn my legs over fast enough to do less than 7:00 miles...

My last 5k was 5:59 pace.  Felt hard, but it was in no way a "sprint" sort of effort and running mechanics.  It is all relative.  My 6 minute pace is like your 8 minute pace which is like someone else's 12 minute pace.  The effort level wil be the same, the pace just corresponds to whatever fitness level and ability the participant is currently at.  Running 9 feels like I'm almost walking while in others that same pace could be a sustained tempo effort.  But they are at a completely different effort level.

Run lots, run varied terrain, rest, repeat.

So run more.  Faster runners aren't doing so by turning their legs over dramatically faster than you (well, they might in part if your cadence is very low).

It's all three (with some natural ability thrown in). And you pretty much answered your own question. You need to run more...and you need to practice running at a faster pace.

An 8 MM is NOT running fast? *Grumble*

Well in some people's worlds...that's pretty darn fast man. I'm lucky if I break a 11 minute mile on anything over 4 miles. LUCKY. In fact I've only done a handful of times... with a 10:56 MM. HA!

What is to be gained?  How about just some insite on how it 'feels' to an elite runner to run at that pace...  Maybe get a glimps on how someone else see something.

I don't have to be out to gain something except for some understanding with every question I ask or ponder about.

Just finally starting to take running seriously myself. A few weeks ago, I was running 14:00 minute miles with moderate hills, and now I am down below 12:00. Its been relatively easy to make that jump, and I expect the 10:00 threshold will take a bit more. But 7:00 minute miles, I don't know if I'll ever get there. I don't know if I could keep up that pace for 100 yards now.

It is NOT leg strength ....... if it was, football linemen would be great endurance runners.  Have you even looked at elite runners?  Scrawny little chickens.

It is aerobic capacity, running economy and weight.

Edit: And to get those three things ...... run lots, run lots, run lots (and eat right).

Edited by Daremo 2009-06-17 2:55 PM

so stride must be longer then...

is there a significant switch from mid foot stricking to heel toe at those kind of paces?  I would say 'sure' if going from a run to a sprint...  Same from going from a 9 min mile ot 6 min?

I am a new runner (read this as VERY little experience) my paces are very similar to the OP.  I feel the same way as you described, but here is what I have noticed.  First, I do three run's a week (FIRST program, and am VERY happy with it) so I do a tempo work out, an interval workout, and  a distance workout.  My paces for each are different based on the distance and I can pretty well predict my HR based on my pace and vice a versa.  The other thing is that I have found is that my rpm can have an effect on my pace also (like the idea of practicing by running down hill, I assume?).

Have you compared your HR's for different paces? 
Have you calculated your RPM's and are they consistent for different paces?
How long have you been running?  I have gotten significantly faster over the last ~1 year but this is a new sport for me and I expect to level out over time.

Michael

Well, there's my problem!!!  Lugging 225 lbs around ... 

I'm trying to get to 210 or so, but anything less than that and I would be too thin I think.

Maybe that's why people pass me on the bike climbs too...

Edited by Aikidoman 2009-06-17 2:57 PM

since when is 6:XX's elite....for any distance up to and including marathon? 

for tri's a HIM, 6:30+ is attenable by the average human. 

Is "elite" a different class than "pro?" 

even so, I see people who race or can race under Elite status, and there going 5:45-:55 for olympics.  Stand along 5 ks, i've seen sub 5:00/mile common amoung college athletes

in your logs today you mention you are 229, how tall are you?

My bet is you get to 180-190 you'll be doing 7's easily (as long as your not 6-7.)

under 180, say hello to 6's....of course, run a lot and dont get hurt while losing weight.  your comparing your times against people who weight 70 lbs less than you. 

IMO, genetics are not even in discussion until we're talking sub 5:30/min in a stand alond 5 k and sub 6:00 in a tri sprint/olympic. 

I'm no where near these paces now, but just a few years ago this is what I was doing, but I was just running, not swimming or biking.

8:00/mile - my typical easy running pace
7:00/mile - my Marathon Race pace. Yes it feels easy.
6:00/mile - my 8k-10k race pace
5:00/mile - my Mile race pace

How I get to those paces? Maintain milage of 35-60 miles per week for 3+ years plus have a background in competitive track/cross country since the age of 14. I have always believed that what we did in puberty has a huge impact on our physiological make up later on.

Physiological changes happen over the course of months and years of consistent running. Clever workouts and quality is no match for the slow slog of thousands of steps over years. It doesn't happen fast, it happens with consistency.

My races pace feels the same as yours, it is possible with more experience to have a better sense of what your limits are, so you're running closer to them.

You need to produce more power.  Power/weight is what matters.  But, yes, smaller framed individuals generally have an easier time being fast.

But your main 'problem' is that you don't run enough.  Run more and (eventually) 7:00/mi won't feel quite so hard anymore.

AMEN, Brother!  Preach it! 

You don't.  But you're not.

Dude you get to under 180 and I'm flying out there to force feed you milkshakes.

I think it matters some that you are 6'6" or taller right...>??

regardless of your height and speed it was my belief that your stride length would be the same in therory as everyone elses.  granted your natural stride will be longer than someone five - two .. but your foot shouldn't be landing out in front of your knee,   I think that's how it's worded..  the main thing you don't want to be overstriding or increasing your stride in the front.

hopefully some of the better runners will realize what I'm trying to say and say it better