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Iraqi Sovereignty
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 2009-06-30 5:11 PM |
Master  2006  Portland, ME |  Subject: Iraqi SovereigntyMy best wishes to the people of Iraq for their continued steps to becoming a self determined nation of free people. |
| 2009-06-30 9:23 PM in reply to: #2254266 |
Expert 1168   Lansdale, PA. | Subject: RE: Iraqi Sovereignty I am not optomistic about the prospects but I'll reserve judgement. I think they need a really gradual pull out but that's not politically correct so here we go. keeping my fingers crossed! |
| 2009-06-30 11:14 PM in reply to: #2254266 |
Extreme Veteran 577 | Subject: RE: Iraqi Sovereignty I think it is about time we let Iraq have it's own sovereignty, too bad it won't be 100 percent. Everyone knows that we will still be in their internal business, trying to "encourage" democracy and other relations in the area. Sort of like how we interfere with Israel all the time, giving them hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign aid and trying to broker peace treaties where it is not our place to do so. Yes, I am still bitter about the war. But, yes, it is good for us to be getting out! |
| 2009-07-01 5:14 AM in reply to: #2254920 |
Expert 810 | Subject: RE: Iraqi Sovereignty Atlas_Shrugged - 2009-06-30 11:14 PM I think it is about time we let Iraq have it's own sovereignty, too bad it won't be 100 percent. Everyone knows that we will still be in their internal business, trying to "encourage" democracy and other relations in the area. Sort of like how we interfere with Israel all the time, giving them hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign aid and trying to broker peace treaties where it is not our place to do so. Yes, I am still bitter about the war. But, yes, it is good for us to be getting out! We arent getting out we are just moving to a different neighborhood. As far as un "encouraging" anything I am pretty sure that once people taste a level of freedom ( they didnt have it before unless they were connected) then they will fight for it. We gave them a taste now we'll see how much they value it. |
| 2009-07-01 7:05 AM in reply to: #2254779 |
Master 2006 Portland, ME | Subject: RE: Iraqi Sovereignty sgillen - 2009-06-30 9:23 PM I am not optomistic about the prospects but I'll reserve judgement. I think they need a really gradual pull out but that's not politically correct so here we go. keeping my fingers crossed! If not now then when? Will it be any different in the future if we waited to pull back? In my opinion it is time to give the people of Iraq their country back. |
| 2009-07-01 7:08 AM in reply to: #2254920 |
Master 2006 Portland, ME | Subject: RE: Iraqi Sovereignty Atlas_Shrugged - 2009-06-30 11:14 PM I think it is about time we let Iraq have it's own sovereignty, too bad it won't be 100 percent. Everyone knows that we will still be in their internal business, trying to "encourage" democracy and other relations in the area. Sort of like how we interfere with Israel all the time, giving them hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign aid and trying to broker peace treaties where it is not our place to do so. Yes, I am still bitter about the war. But, yes, it is good for us to be getting out! What's wrong with encouraging democracy? Could it be that the Iran people got a taste of democracy because of the happenings in Iraq? |
| 2009-07-01 7:30 AM in reply to: #2254266 |
Champion 4942 Richmond, VA | Subject: RE: Iraqi Sovereignty part of the issue most Americans have in not truly understanding Iraq is understanding the differences between Shiats and Sunnies (and the Kurds). To all of us, they "look" like Iraqis. We would wonder if they didn't "want" freedom b/c of internal fighting. the other major problem is that insurgent forces were not necessarily Iraqi-born forces, but AQ fighters pouring across the borders or the "alleged" Shiat support from Iran to insure that Iraq does not become a Sunni stronghold. my hope is that these groups realize they are stronger united in arms against external insurgent (aka tribal and AQ) forces for their own safety and freedom and they realize they can seek resolve their differences amongst themselves through non-violent means. but sadly, there is no quick exit in Iraq. accepting the fact that we're there - we, as a country, should be obligated to the people in Iraq who supported and trusted us, that we will not leave until the time is right. |
 2009-07-01 8:05 AM in reply to: #2254266 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2009-07-01 8:14 AM in reply to: #2255220 |
| Master 2006 Portland, ME | Subject: RE: Iraqi Sovereignty AcesFull - 2009-07-01 8:05 AM Apparently, my first response was too inflammatory and got yanked. I'll tone it down. The Iraqis had sovreignty until we took it away from them. Maybe a few elite Sunnis belonged to a sovreign nation but I don't think the Shites or Kurds would say they belonged. Now all the people of Iraq are united under one flag. Edited by Jackemy 2009-07-01 8:16 AM |
| 2009-07-01 11:37 AM in reply to: #2255220 |
| Expert 1168 Lansdale, PA. | Subject: RE: Iraqi Sovereignty AcesFull - 2009-07-01 9:05 AM Apparently, my first response was too inflammatory and got yanked. I'll tone it down. The Iraqis had sovreignty until we took it away from them. I'll politely disagree with this, history shows certain groups had some freedom as long it wasn't threatening to the ruling party others ware not so lucky. Lets not forget, Saddam was executed for gassing hundreds of thousands of his own citizens. As to my initial comment, I agree it is time to get out however, I believe it should be very gradual so that as we leave the relative calm that has taken the place of chaos will be more sustainable for the fragile government to maintain. My biggest fear is that a sudden withdraw will cause instant instability and all that was lost and spent will be for nothing. That would be tragic! |
| 2009-07-01 12:03 PM in reply to: #2255240 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2009-07-01 12:30 PM in reply to: #2254266 |
| Expert 1186 North Cackalacky | Subject: RE: Iraqi Sovereignty I, too, wish to remain optimistic, but in a more selfish way. Six trips over there was enough, and I don't want to do a seventh. |
| 2009-07-01 12:33 PM in reply to: #2255949 |
| Houston | Subject: RE: Iraqi Sovereignty sgillen - 2009-07-01 11:37 AM AcesFull - 2009-07-01 9:05 AM Apparently, my first response was too inflammatory and got yanked. I'll tone it down. The Iraqis had sovreignty until we took it away from them. I'll politely disagree with this, history shows certain groups had some freedom as long it wasn't threatening to the ruling party others ware not so lucky. Lets not forget, Saddam was executed for gassing hundreds of thousands of his own citizens. As to my initial comment, I agree it is time to get out however, I believe it should be very gradual so that as we leave the relative calm that has taken the place of chaos will be more sustainable for the fragile government to maintain. My biggest fear is that a sudden withdraw will cause instant instability and all that was lost and spent will be for nothing. That would be tragic! It really is not as sudden as the media has made it out to be. Since the SOFA there has been a steady withdraw from the cities to the surrounding areas. The US military has gradually become less involved since the SOFA also and trying to push the Iraqi police/military to fill the roles that they once filled and were now forbidden to do. Besides, there's still 135,000 troops in Iraq. At some point we have to leave and the Iraqis don't want us there and the American public doesn't want us there. It makes little sense to remain in the cities against both population's will. The best we can now hope for is that a full scale civil war does not erupt. |
| 2009-07-01 1:11 PM in reply to: #2255113 |
| Extreme Veteran 577 | Subject: RE: Iraqi Sovereignty Jackemy - 2009-07-01 7:08 AM Atlas_Shrugged - 2009-06-30 11:14 PM I think it is about time we let Iraq have it's own sovereignty, too bad it won't be 100 percent. Everyone knows that we will still be in their internal business, trying to "encourage" democracy and other relations in the area. Sort of like how we interfere with Israel all the time, giving them hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign aid and trying to broker peace treaties where it is not our place to do so. Yes, I am still bitter about the war. But, yes, it is good for us to be getting out! What's wrong with encouraging democracy? Could it be that the Iran people got a taste of democracy because of the happenings in Iraq? Encouraging democracy with the barrel of a gun is not effective, and history shows this. It is great to encourage freedom by example, as Ronald Reagan said we should be "the shining city on a hill." Or something like that. Also, democracy is not an effective or freedom providing form of government, and the word democracy does not even appear in our Declaration of Independence or Constitution. A Republic is what we should be, too bad we haven't kept it very well. I agree with AcesFull. We supported and empowered Saddam Hussein in the 80's, and look where our meddling got us. Don't forget about the 1953 Iranian coup with the assistance of our beloved CIA. Oh, and we cannot forget about the wonderful School of the Americas in Ft Benning, GA; which was renamed something else. The world just keeps getting better the more America acts like a true superpower should, imposing democracy with guns and bombs. |
| 2009-07-01 1:28 PM in reply to: #2256271 |
| Master 2006 Portland, ME | Subject: RE: Iraqi Sovereignty Atlas_Shrugged - 2009-07-01 1:11 PM Jackemy - 2009-07-01 7:08 AM Atlas_Shrugged - 2009-06-30 11:14 PM I think it is about time we let Iraq have it's own sovereignty, too bad it won't be 100 percent. Everyone knows that we will still be in their internal business, trying to "encourage" democracy and other relations in the area. Sort of like how we interfere with Israel all the time, giving them hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign aid and trying to broker peace treaties where it is not our place to do so. Yes, I am still bitter about the war. But, yes, it is good for us to be getting out! What's wrong with encouraging democracy? Could it be that the Iran people got a taste of democracy because of the happenings in Iraq? Encouraging democracy with the barrel of a gun is not effective, and history shows this. It is great to encourage freedom by example, as Ronald Reagan said we should be "the shining city on a hill." Or something like that. Also, democracy is not an effective or freedom providing form of government, and the word democracy does not even appear in our Declaration of Independence or Constitution. A Republic is what we should be, too bad we haven't kept it very well. I agree with AcesFull. We supported and empowered Saddam Hussein in the 80's, and look where our meddling got us. Don't forget about the 1953 Iranian coup with the assistance of our beloved CIA. Oh, and we cannot forget about the wonderful School of the Americas in Ft Benning, GA; which was renamed something else. The world just keeps getting better the more America acts like a true superpower should, imposing democracy with guns and bombs. Reagan who has freed more people from tyranny in this world than just about any other man did it without firing a shot. |
| 2009-07-01 1:50 PM in reply to: #2256317 |
| Extreme Veteran 577 | Subject: RE: Iraqi Sovereignty Jackemy - 2009-07-01 1:28 PM Reagan who has freed more people from tyranny in this world than just about any other man did it without firing a shot. Not sure if that is sarcasm or not... I am just quoting Reagan. Not always in agreement. |
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