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2005-04-29 10:39 AM

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Subject: Flip Turns?
I started doing triathlons in 2002. I missed 03 because I was deployed and did one sprint race last year. The swim has always been a weakness. I was never consistent with training for it. This year has been different. Things are really clicking, I've been swimmin 3x per week consistently for 6 or 7 weeks and going at least 1000m per workout. I don't know how/have never tried flip turns. Now that I'm past the drowning avoidance stage is it worth the effort to learn how to do flip turns? How does pool swim pace compare to open water swim pace, with and without flip turns? Thanks in advance.

Jeff


2005-04-29 11:03 AM
in reply to: #149956

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?

I am still in the "sometimes do a few half-assed flip turns during warmup" phase of the learning curve. I am trying to do more of them in my normal training. For me personally, there is less rest per lap when doing flip-turns, so I think that doing them will ultimately benefit my swimming overall.

Others disagree.

2005-04-29 11:09 AM
in reply to: #149977

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North Little Rock, AR
Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
Thanks for the reply. I guess I'll try them on the first few laps at my next swim. My biggest fear is turning completely over and swimminng into the walll. We'll see

I like your sig. I've been wondering about the cat on the bike thing. When I'm riding on the trainer in my house one of my cats likes to jump up and lounge on the aero bars. Maybe I cna get him a little helmet and some sort of harness...
2005-04-29 11:11 AM
in reply to: #149977

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
ride_like_u_stole_it - 2005-04-29 11:03 AM

... For me personally, there is less rest per lap when doing flip-turns, so I think that doing them will ultimately benefit my swimming overall ...



Exactly why I am also learning to do them--started practicing 2 days ago.
2005-04-29 11:11 AM
in reply to: #149956

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Central Connecticut
Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
When done Very well they can cut down on split times. The "perfect" flip turn means no stoping, or that the transition from foward motion to rotational motion is fluid.

The correct progression from what I remember was:

Glide for one stroke.

Body curl first. The legs should NEVER curl with the body.

Then the legs will flip themselves over without any effort.

You really need a strong core to do flip turns.

Its quite hard to do them right. I would talk to a swim-coach about flip turns, because if you are not doing them correctley, its just wasted energy.
2005-04-29 11:17 AM
in reply to: #149956

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
I haven't learned flip turns yet, but this video seems like a good tutorial.




2005-04-29 11:20 AM
in reply to: #149979

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?

I like your sig. I've been wondering about the cat on the bike thing. When I'm riding on the trainer in my house one of my cats likes to jump up and lounge on the aero bars. Maybe I cna get him a little helmet and some sort of harness...

I'd pay$$$$$ to see that ;-)

2005-04-29 11:23 AM
in reply to: #149956

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
I don't know how anyone swims in a pool without flip turns. They make the swim so much more consistent and fluid. Granted, I learned them when I was like 6 so I don't remember not knowing how, but honestly I think I would quite swimming out of frustration.
2005-04-29 11:31 AM
in reply to: #149997

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
foxycharmer - 2005-04-29 11:23 AM

I don't know how anyone swims in a pool without flip turns. They make the swim so much more consistent and fluid. Granted, I learned them when I was like 6 so I don't remember not knowing how, but honestly I think I would quite swimming out of frustration.


I agree. Doing flip turns makes the sets way more fluid and connected. It is really hard for me to find a good rhythm if I don`t do flip turns. It would be a good idea to practice for a few minutes in your warm up and as a warm down. They are not easy at first, but with consistent practice it will get much easier. I think that once you have flip turns down, you will wonder how you ever swam without doing them.

Good Luck!
2005-04-29 11:34 AM
in reply to: #149956

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?

Now that I'm past the drowning avoidance stage is it worth the effort to learn how to do flip turns?

Yes, it's worth the effort. You will become a better swimmer and gain more confidence in your swimming ability. There's no downside to mastering flip turns.

How does pool swim pace compare to open water swim pace, with and without flip turns?

The ocean offers no ledges for you to pause on, even if for just a fraction of a second. The more comfortable you become with constantly moving in the pool, the more comfortable you will feel with constant motion in the ocean. Your pace in the OW will probably increase simply from the adrenaline flow.

2005-04-29 11:57 AM
in reply to: #149956

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
the video link from dontracy is how I learned about 3 months ago. I feel my workouts are more intense, less rest. I use to get 2 sometimes 3 extra breaths at the wall, now I push right thru each lap with flip turns.

During master's class I only use flipturns when I know there is no one around. Other swimmers don't know when I am going to flip, so they may start to crowd the end of lane area. And I am not 100% comfortable doing them and going 'Deep' to stay out of their way...

Practice exactly what that video shows, plus watch others at your pool. Sometimes I tend to want to turn as FAST as possible, but then form gets screwy....



2005-04-29 11:57 AM
in reply to: #149956

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Not a Coach
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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?

I do flip turns, but not they're not textbook.  Still, I feel like it has made me more confident in my swimming and is still more fluid than doing a wall touch for me.  It really didn't take that much effort to learn (though I suppose since I haven't learned to do them right yet that it actually requires quite a bit of effort).  Spent about 15min on them with my coach at the time.  The next couple workouts were challenging because it does cause you to hold your breath more and that takes some adaptation.

I say do it.

2005-04-29 12:19 PM
in reply to: #149956

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North Little Rock, AR
Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
Wow, where do you guys find all of these swim coaches?

It sounds like I need to start practicing. Thanks for all of the info.
2005-04-29 3:28 PM
in reply to: #149956

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Master
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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
I would say no to flip turns simply for the reason that I dislocated my shoulder 13 times doing flip turns. I had worn away the ball of my left shoulder with the dislocations. I originally start to tear my shoulder apart by doing bench press. Doc told me unless done correctly bench press can destroy a shoulder. So if you should feel any pain while doing flip turns I would stop doing them.

Mike
2005-04-29 4:14 PM
in reply to: #149956

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
I've tried flip turns a few times, but since I started swimming at an advanced age (last year) I felt like I was going to devote too much time to the endeavor, because there definitely is a learning curve! I will most likely go back to trying to learn them after my tri in June, because I don't usually accept that I "can't" do something - but in the meantime, I have perfected the art of the non-flip turn, and at no time to my hands ever touch the wall. Therefore I don't feel like I am resting in the slightest. Happy Flipping!
2005-04-29 4:17 PM
in reply to: #149956

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
here's my take from a swimmer's perspective- You will not be doing flip turns in a triathlon, so don't worry about it! 

Bryan


2005-04-29 5:04 PM
in reply to: #149956

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
I don't think I'll ever learn how to do flip turns. Besides, I getting more and more comfortable with open turns.
2005-04-29 6:17 PM
in reply to: #149992

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!!!!

I've been asking my kids who are on the schools' swim teams to teach me how to do a flip turn. Seeing the video has it all make sense!!!!!!!!


Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!!!!

I'll be practicing this tomorrow.
2005-04-29 6:28 PM
in reply to: #149956

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
I only started swimming lanes, or any distance more than out to a raft at a beach, about 5 months ago. I used that video and with a bit of practice, learned flip turns. My first tri will have a pool swim and I will happily use flip turns then.

I recently started swimming in a 50m pool instead of a 25m pool and without half the flips I seem to go slightly slower. I think I also miss the rests that I used to get while gliding after the extra flips. Of course, you don't have to push off hard if you don't want to.

I would highly recommend spending a little time now and then to practice summersaults in the water, etc. Don't worry about perfecting flip turns in a single session, or even in a week, but keep at it. I used to practice a couple flips sometimes while I rested between laps.
2005-04-29 7:44 PM
in reply to: #149997

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
foxycharmer - 2005-04-29 10:23 AM

I don't know how anyone swims in a pool without flip turns. They make the swim so much more consistent and fluid. Granted, I learned them when I was like 6 so I don't remember not knowing how, but honestly I think I would quite swimming out of frustration.


My problem is that when I was 6 (or some young and impressionable age) I had this jerk swim coach who would stand over me at the end of the pool and make me do flip turns over and over and scream at me for doing them wrong. I always got water up my nose and felt like I was drowning. I HATED it. My desire to do flip turns has not been great since then.
2005-04-29 8:55 PM
in reply to: #149995

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
How much $$$ for the cat in a helmet pic? I have to hijack the thread for just sec and show you motorcat. This is a real cat that used to ride a motorcycle with her owner. She passed away a few years back.



(motorcat3.jpg)



(Motorcat2.gif)



(motorcat.jpg)



Attachments
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motorcat3.jpg (18KB - 10 downloads)
Motorcat2.gif (20KB - 9 downloads)
motorcat.jpg (39KB - 14 downloads)


2005-04-29 9:13 PM
in reply to: #150317

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
2005-04-29 11:14 PM
in reply to: #150229

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
TRIBMAC - 2005-04-29 3:17 PM here's my take from a swimmer's perspective- You will not be doing flip turns in a triathlon, so don't worry about it! 

Bryan
well then what were all those people flipping by the walls in my sprint last weekend?  A lot of sprints in this area have pool swims.   I guess practice what you're going to race..
2005-05-13 1:46 PM
in reply to: #149956

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
Back to Flip Turns discussion.

The only reason I haven't really tried doing flip turns is because I am afraid to hit my head at the bottom of the pool. The pool where I swim is only 4 ft. deep at it's deepest point. The rest of the pool is 3 ft. deep. This is why I have to swim across the width of the pool rather than the length. But the width is only 13 meters. I would imagine that even if I knew how to do a proper flip turn, it would be almost like cheating myself since there won't be any walls to push off from in the actual race. However, I think the point about using flip turns to get the body used to always being in motion throughout the swim practice makes a lot of sense as by not doing flip turns I'm getting my body used to taking a short pause every 13 .

So here is my question to all of you swim veterans: if the pool is too shallow for doing flip turns what is the next best turn to do to minimize loosing my rythm and to avoid having my feet touch the pool floor?
2005-05-13 3:49 PM
in reply to: #149956

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Subject: RE: Flip Turns?
Will you be doing a lot of triathlons that involve pool swimming? I say not to waste time practicing flip turns.... You will not need them on open water swimming. It is better to practice body position, improve your stoke, breathing, etc.
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