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2009-07-08 2:19 PM
in reply to: #2269270

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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST

How long should a ride should be in order to be helpful to one's base? Would an hour for most rides (with a long ride on the weekend) be enough? Due to my work schedule, its hard to get more than an hour of biking in during the week. Is this worth my time, or would this just be considered junk mileage?



2009-07-08 2:25 PM
in reply to: #2270834

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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
Caraleigh - 2009-07-08 2:19 PM

How long should a ride should be in order to be helpful to one's base? Would an hour for most rides (with a long ride on the weekend) be enough? Due to my work schedule, its hard to get more than an hour of biking in during the week. Is this worth my time, or would this just be considered junk mileage?



An hour's fine, depending on the length of your goal races, of course. Longer rides on the weekend. In fact, I kind of base my arbitrary 100MPW on three 1-hour rides of 17 miles each during the week, and a three-hour fifty-miler on the weekend.

It's only junk miles if you're not putting any effort into it.
2009-07-08 2:25 PM
in reply to: #2270834

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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
Caraleigh - 2009-07-08 4:19 PM

How long should a ride should be in order to be helpful to one's base? Would an hour for most rides (with a long ride on the weekend) be enough? Due to my work schedule, its hard to get more than an hour of biking in during the week. Is this worth my time, or would this just be considered junk mileage?



Riding is always going to be better than not riding.  What I would suggest is that you build up the the largest volume of riding you can consistently put in per week at a moderate effort level.  Once you are consistently riding at this level, you can look at upping the intensity on one (and eventually more than one) of the weekday rides.

Shane
2009-07-08 2:38 PM
in reply to: #2270834

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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
Caraleigh - 2009-07-08 3:19 PM

How long should a ride should be in order to be helpful to one's base? Would an hour for most rides (with a long ride on the weekend) be enough? Due to my work schedule, its hard to get more than an hour of biking in during the week. Is this worth my time, or would this just be considered junk mileage?



all of my rides are 1 hour or less, with the exception of 1 long ride on Saturday mornings...which is currenlty 2 hours.

most of us could not have junk miles if we tried.



Edited by cusetri 2009-07-08 2:39 PM
2009-07-08 3:29 PM
in reply to: #2269831

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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST

breckview - 2009-07-08 8:29 AM
Bioteknik - 2009-07-08 8:02 AM cool, I was shooting for at least 6 hours a week since my mileage doesn't match up very well with road miles (but not yet, going to work up to this)
IMO, mountain biking time doesn't match up with road riding time either. Even with our altitude and climbing, a four-hour mountain bike ride is way easier for me than a four-hour road ride. Most all of the mountain pros up here spend a lot of time training on a road bike.

Time and distance are 2 very different things when comparing mountain biking and road biking. You go much, much further in a speficic amount of time on the road then on trails.  The varying terrain coupled with the varrying geography of mountain biking make it more like interval training IMO.  Most competitive mountain bikers I know put road hours in due to the consistancy and steadyness of the terrain along with higher mileage that can be achived, not because it is harder. 

2009-07-08 3:46 PM
in reply to: #2270901

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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
cusetri - 2009-07-08 2:38 PM
Caraleigh - 2009-07-08 3:19 PM

 





most of us could not have junk miles if we tried.



bingo


2009-07-08 3:57 PM
in reply to: #2269270

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2009-07-08 4:25 PM
in reply to: #2269270

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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST

Ditto on putting the time in on the bike whether on the trainer or road.

Also, get a good bike computer and work on improving your cadence.  Once you get your cadence up, you can work on keeping that cadence with the tougher gears and eventually it will pay off.

2009-07-08 4:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
kns57 - 2009-07-08 4:25 PM

Ditto on putting the time in on the bike whether on the trainer or road.

Also, get a good bike computer and work on improving your cadence.  Once you get your cadence up, you can work on keeping that cadence with the tougher gears and eventually it will pay off.



Uh, no.

Most efficient cadence is individual in nature, and comes with, you guessed it, riding lots. There's no evidence that higher cadence is across-the-board more effective.
2009-07-08 7:50 PM
in reply to: #2271149

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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
PennState - 2009-07-08 2:57 PM
I went from a 'never cyclist' (ok 10 speed as a kid) in late 2006 to a guy who can beat Breckview in a race...


Hey, I'm not claiming I can beat anyone. But I do have you beat already on one measure. I went from a guy who could barely walk in 2006, and then who had to sit in a chair for months to let my spine fuse after surgery, to a guy who claims nothing other than I can usually keep from crashing on a ride.
2009-07-08 7:57 PM
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2009-07-08 8:56 PM
in reply to: #2271614

Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST

PennState - 2009-07-08 8:57 PM
breckview - 2009-07-08 8:50 PM
PennState - 2009-07-08 2:57 PM I went from a 'never cyclist' (ok 10 speed as a kid) in late 2006 to a guy who can beat Breckview in a race...
Hey, I'm not claiming I can beat anyone. But I do have you beat already on one measure. I went from a guy who could barely walk in 2006, and then who had to sit in a chair for months to let my spine fuse after surgery, to a guy who claims nothing other than I can usually keep from crashing on a ride.


That's an amazing story!
You do realise I was joking...

Fred, is this what you mean by stirring the pot?

And to answer the question Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST?  Hmmm... I don't know.  But what Bear and Jorge said sounds good to me. 

The beauty of the bike is you can hammer it in training hard and often, and because it's low impact you will Recover very quickly and your risk of Injury is much lower than with Running.  And don't try that method with Running: hard and often.  Trust me, I did it and paid the price.

Another question: not sure if this was addressed in this thread: Have you had a professional bike fitting?  I consistently in the 19mph range when training at a moderate pace.  Since my professional bike fitting, I am now consistently 20 mph +.




Edited by Dream Chaser 2009-07-08 8:58 PM
2009-07-09 3:18 AM
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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST

Jimbob - 2009-07-08 4:33 AM I have a new baby this year so didn't get to develop my biking base well enough before race season.  I died in my first Sprint Triathlon on the bike last week.  Gearing towards Olympic distance race in 2 months.  How should I get faster fast?  Focus on intervals?  Just put more hours? (how many days per week)  Any other suggestions?

 

Mileage is greatly overrated on the bike, even moreso for sprint triathlons. With two months you have plenty of time to see a sizeable boost in cycling fitness, given that you're coming from an undertrained state. Jorge laid out the basics... the only thing I might change would be a 6 x 3'(3') session instead of the 6 x 4'(1'), and/or maybe 2 longish tempo/z3 rides... it all depends on your power profile. To paraphrase Hunter Allen: to get better, you are going to have to suffer. it is going to hurt, and you are going to want to quit

To make it easy, you could just throw in a spinervals dvd or download some sufferfest on your ipod, and hop on your trainer. Do the trainer T/W/Th, then go long on a weekend...

 

2009-07-09 10:06 PM
in reply to: #2272064

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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
lrobb - 2009-07-09 2:18 AM
Mileage is greatly overrated on the bike, ...

Somebody should really inform the Pro,1,2 riders. They sure are wasting a bunch of time training!
2009-07-11 1:08 PM
in reply to: #2269270


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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
Thanks all, I've been thinking of getting a trainer, probably buy one off craig's list.  Any suggestions of mid-range trainers to buy?

I have been doing sprint triathlons the past 3 years and did OD last year, so I know what to expect on that 40km ride.  My goal is really to get my kmph up.  The one I'm doing in 2 months is a hilly course, suited to me because I'm strong on hills.  I'm not a huge guy.  My plan is to do 3 X 1 hour hard rides per week and 1 X 50km ride with hills every weekend.  I live DT in a larger city, so it's hard to find places to do long rides...
2009-07-11 3:39 PM
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2009-07-11 4:28 PM
in reply to: #2269270

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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
I am in a similar situation.  I have thirteen weeks to a HIM (Magic Mountainman - MMM) and I rode part of the (very hilly) course this morning and unless I get a whole lot better, I won't be able to do it.  It is the hilly part.  I know I am slow (in all three - swimming, running and biking) and I am OK with that.  That's just the way it seems to be.  I can DO it all, usually.  I believe I could ride 56 miles, if the occasion arose, but not the MMM HIM course.

The basic advice on this thread has been to bike a whole lot.  My question is, assuming I was able to up my mileage, it would mostly be by riding to work, which is not completely flat, but nothing like I encountered this morning.  I really would only be able to ride hills once a week at best.  Would riding hills once a week be enough to get strong enough to just ride this bloomin' course in October, assuming I also got in some other miles as well?

And yeah, I know that "the only way to get better at riding hills is by riding hills." 

My other question is, my training log shows the hours I have put in on each sport.  Is there a way to show miles?  Sometimes I ride my bike with my 4 yo grandson and it may take us an hour to go two or three miles, not exactly a lot to show for an hour of riding.
2009-07-11 4:56 PM
in reply to: #2269270

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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
BTW, I do see the total miles under monthly progress.  I thought there might be a way to make the graph show distance rather than time. 
2009-07-11 6:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
breckview - 2009-07-08 10:29 AM
Bioteknik - 2009-07-08 8:02 AM cool, I was shooting for at least 6 hours a week since my mileage doesn't match up very well with road miles (but not yet, going to work up to this)
IMO, mountain biking time doesn't match up with road riding time either. Even with our altitude and climbing, a four-hour mountain bike ride is way easier for me than a four-hour road ride. Most all of the mountain pros up here spend a lot of time training on a road bike.


Then you should have no problem cleaning up in an xterra ;-) probably be the first one out of the water too.  (overall, not just AG), a 1-1.5 hr mountain bike leg should be a piece of cake. 
2009-07-11 11:18 PM
in reply to: #2278534

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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
Bioteknik - 2009-07-11 5:56 PM
Then you should have no problem cleaning up in an xterra ;-) probably be the first one out of the water too.  (overall, not just AG), a 1-1.5 hr mountain bike leg should be a piece of cake. 


Sorry but that doesn't make sense. Just because I believe that I'm more fatigued on a 4-hour road ride as compared to a 4-hour mountain ride doesn't imply anything about my ability in either.
2009-07-12 3:37 AM
in reply to: #2269270

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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
no, but you do have logs/race reports which indicate your road bike ability, plus I'm pulling your leg too since most people experience the opposite since most people are used to the steady power demands of a road bike compared to the repeated burst effort on a mtb. 


2009-07-12 12:22 PM
in reply to: #2278833

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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
Bioteknik - 2009-07-12 2:37 AM
no, but you do have logs/race reports which indicate your road bike ability, plus I'm pulling your leg too since most people experience the opposite since most people are used to the steady power demands of a road bike compared to the repeated burst effort on a mtb. 


Well then, consider my leg pulled.

I can tell you that I suck at mountain biking because I've bad crashes with bad injuries and therefore I just don't have the guts to compete on the downhills which is too bad considering that I can ride out my back door on a private single track for about 1/2 mile which connects to hundreds of miles of single track and historic mining roads.

In the past, I've been a very serious bike rider both road and mountain and while I really wanted to ride mountain a lot because I loved it, I just didn't feel that I got much fitness training value from it compared to road so I backed off. Locally, I hang with a lot of pro mountain riders and they routinely knock off 6-10 hour mountain rides in training but only 3-5 hour road rides. And every one that I know credits road riding for their fitness but honestly some of that might be due to the fact that our road routes melt out a couple months before our mountain routes. But again, as I've been told, except for endurance racing, winning mountain races at the expert/pro level is more about descending skills than fitness. There are lots of pro riders in town now due to the Firecracker 50 National Championship, the Breck Epic, and the Breck 100. I'm having a couple over for dinner tonight and I'll ask them more about this subject.

Having said all that, you might be right about "most people". I can only go off my experiences.
2009-07-12 6:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
One thing I have noticed is that as a beginner, biking seems to improve so much faster than the other activities in the tri training.  I've been increasing distances quite a bit over my training schedule due to my work being 20 to 23 miles away (depending on which route I take).  I'm still very slow but some of my trips are all extremely hilly.  (over 1400 ft elevation change) I'm counting on those hills making me very strong for my OLY.  The elevation changes are much more brutal than the actual even will present. 

Each run I notice that I can pump up the hills a bit faster and there are only a couple places where I ever have to leave my seat.  I really want to do a fitting though.  I'm not convinced I'm lined up right yet.  I thought I was close but then I put on aerobars and my knees are nearly hitting my chest.  Laughing
2009-07-12 6:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Weak cycling base - how to get faster FAST
www.crossfitendurance.com

do the bike workouts, very quick improvement, then just find some places to throw in longer rides and your set. With sprint distances you really don't have to worry too much about endurance training or super long rides on the bike so crossfitendurance is perfect.

and yes, I have used it, and yes, I did get great results. It's worth a look
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