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2005-05-06 1:33 PM

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Subject: Weight loss cal questions.
I have been reading the nutrition threads looking for some info on weight loss. I am about 50lbs overweight (230) and have been told to reduce my caloric intake to about 2100 cal a day by my gym trainer; he however does not know how much I am riding.

I have been riding 30+ miles several times a week, I'm supposed to working out 2-3 times a week in the gym, and I am adding swimming next week, and wonder what I should be doing for in ride and post ride nutrition. I see many people talking about 100 cal every 20-30 min, big recovery meals and all that Gatorade. This seems to be a lot of calories when trying to lose weight.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Micah


2005-05-07 3:41 AM
in reply to: #153738

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.

I consume only water on all rides less than 2 hours. So if you're riding 30 miles, I wouldn't take in any calories on the ride. On my longer rides I'll have one cliff bar per hour, and switch to one cliff shot every 45 mins or so for the last couple of hours. For instance today I rode 4 hours had 2 cliff bars and 3 cliff shots - 800 calories total.

I don't do any special post ride nutrition, just eat a carbohydrate rich meal.

Not sure if that helps or not, but that's what I do.

2005-05-07 12:47 PM
in reply to: #153738

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
It helps... Thanks..
Micah
2005-05-18 11:28 AM
in reply to: #153738

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
A couple things to keep in mind...if you can keep your HR down while riding (60-70% max) the your body will use mostly fat as fuel.  The harder you push the more muscle glycogen (and even lean mass) is used and the more important fueling during and recovery nutrition become.  You should estimate your daily caloric requirement with something like FitDay.com which will allow you to track your exercise as well as basal rate and lifestyle requirements.  From there you can get a better idea of how much you should be eating each day.  I suggest 500-700 calories below what you burn each day.  This should result in about 1lb per week of weight loss without starving yourself.  If you're interested in a serious kick-start to your weight loss there are diets like CKD that can give you 10-15lbs of weight loss (almost completely fat) in 2-3 weeks but it is very strick and requires a fairly specific exercise schedule and you need to track everything you eat to make sure you are getting the proper ratio of macronutrients.  I can drop 5-8lbs in 2 weeks with CKD and keep it off as long as my diet stays healthy and I maintain regular workouts.
2005-05-19 5:28 PM
in reply to: #153738

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
so you are saying that if fitday.com says i am using 4200 calories then i can 3200 calories and still lose 2 lbs a week.

I am new to this whole calorie counting thing and that blows my mind, because i am currently eating around 1800 calories.

oh yeah 6'0" 215
2005-05-19 5:52 PM
in reply to: #160314

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
500 below what you burn on average should give you about 1lb weight loss per week.  Your problem probably is that you aren't eating nearly enough...or maybe the wrong things.  When you restrict your diet significantly your body thinks it is starving and it will begin to store every available colorie as fat...it's a survival tactic.  I wouldn't go much below 800cal under your daily requirement.  Don't be afraid to eat.  I'm only 168 and I eat 4000+ calories a day and I haven't gained a pound in months.


2005-05-19 10:08 PM
in reply to: #153738

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
it is just hard to grasp eat more to loss weight.

so i should eat more?

my FitDay.com
2005-05-19 10:41 PM
in reply to: #153738

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
You need to eat twice that much for the amount of calories you burned today!  More protein and more fat...yes, fat!  Healthy fats...all natural peanut butter, olive oil, flax oil, nuts.  At least 1gram of protein per pound of body weight...chicken, tuna, steak, lowfat cheese, all natural peanut butter, protein powder, egg whites, lean lunch meats, protein bars.  Carbs - focus on whole wheat bread, whole oats, brown rice, whole wheat pasta, and even simple sugars immediately after any long or intense workouts.  Trust me...you need to eat more to lose weight.  You're not eating enough to allow your body to build lean mass...lean mass requires more calories to maintain so you automatically burn more calories.  Your body is doing everythig it can to hold on to it's fat stores right now because they are high energy (9 calories per gram of fat, 4 calories per gram of carb or protein).  Look over my diet log...I eat a fairly clean balanced diet for someone training.  See all the fats I eat?  And I maintain 8-9% body fat.  I know it might not seem logical but there is a point where eating les actually works against you...I'd bet that your metabolism is also slow from the calorie restriction.  You need to provide energy to let your body burn off the fat.
2005-05-19 11:37 PM
in reply to: #160410

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
TH3 FRB -- Thanks for all the help. So what should my balance be 40%protien-30-30?

You don't know how excited i am about getting to start eating like crazy. This is going to be awesome.

Edited by rb85cj7 2005-05-19 11:39 PM
2005-05-20 10:00 AM
in reply to: #160428

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.

Yeah, shoot for about a 40/30/30 CALORIE ratio of carbs/protein/fat.  I stressed the calorie ratio because fat has about 225% as many calories per gram as carbs or protein.  That is one of the reasons FitDay.com is so useful...it tracks your grams AND calories of each macronutrient.  I happen to have a desk job so I can log my foods through the day and see where I'm at, making adjustments on the fly.  Make sure those fats are mostly from things like flax and olive oil, nuts, peanut butter, salmon, fish oil supplements...healthy amounts of these fats will actually HELP you lose body fat. You need to adjust your intake based on your activity level that day adn shoot for 500-800 calories below what your burn.  Now you can't eat like crazy but it might seem that way compared to what you've been doing.  It's important to spread your intake through the entire day...aim for 5-6 roughly equal meals of 400-600 calories each...I usually have a slightly larger breakfast and end up with a big dinner a few hours before bed.  Looking back over the last few days of your diet journal I'd say you generally need to reduce your carbs, increase your protein and increase your overall intake.  Some suggestions that you might incorporate...

Breakfast:  add 25g protein to your breakfast.  I typically have a protein shake because it's quick to make and take to work but once in a while I'll scramble up some eggs (one whole and 3-5 whites).  Get yourself some protein powder (DPSnutrition.com has Optimum Nutrition 100% whey for $25 for 5lbs...this should last you a couple months).  Have a protein shake...lots of variations...I like chocolate powder so I'll toss in a bananna and 2 tbsp of ANPB (all natural peanut butter).  Nothing wrong with regular milk but I drink so much that I've switched to Carb Countdown milk (see below) which has less carbs and more protein compared to regular milk.  I've also found a very good cereal called Kashi GoLean which is whloe grain, high in protein and fiber.  Whloe wheat bread with ANPB is also a good choice for breakfast.  A caution about "whole wheat" products like breads...don't trust the lable on the front.  I've seen many "whole grain" breads that aren't what you think.  Always check the ingredients and make sure they don't have anything "enriched" at the top of the list.  You should be looking for "unbleached whole wheat flour" as the first ingredient.  Same goes for wheat pasta.  If you have ANPB as part of your breakfast then you're good to go with your morning fat, otherwise consider flax seed oil (about $10 for 16oz at your local health food store)...one tbsp with a protein shake (blend it in) or just take a pull off the bottle.

Lunch:  sandwiches are good for lunch but add a couple extra slices of lunch meat, go with lowfat cheese, lowfat mayo, or mustard.  Watch out for that "whole grain" bread.  Have a some fruit and/or veggies, a low fat cheese stick, or 2% cottage cheese.

Dinner:  MEAT...chicken, steak, lean pork, salmon, tuna, CHICKEN.  Good carbs...1/2 cup of brown rice, 1/2 sweet potato, beans.  Steamed veggies...broccoli, asparagus, green beans, brussel sprouts.  I love baby spinach salads...high in fiber...add mushrooms, red onion, tomato, and extra virgin olive oil (very good fat) and balsamic vinegar.  Once n a while I'll make whole wheat pasta with turkey meatballs or lean turkey sausage.  Something quick for lunch or dinner are Life Choice frozen meals...low carb, high protein (see below).

Snacks:  These are your "extra" meals between bkfst, lunch, and dinner.  I eat a lot of 2% cottage cheese, almonds and walnuts (good fats), protein shakes, Balance bars, Detour bars (like a candy bar), any high protein energy bar that isn't packed with sugars.  Yogurt is a good snack but I suggest Carb Countdown yogurt because it is lower in sugar and higher in protein.  I also keep a jar of ANPB in my desk drawer.  If I'm low on protein that day I'll mix up a can of white albacore tuna (more expensive compared to regular tuna but much better) with some low calorie mayo or ranch dressing.

Some specific foods that I rely on: ANPB, LOTS of protein shakes, canned tuna, Carb Countdown products (http://www.hphood.com/products/products.list.Cb.asp), Detour and U-Turn bars (DPSnutrition and Target), fruit, flax oil, Life Choice meals (http://www.lifechoicefoods.com/index.jsp), and lots of chicken.

This should get you started.  The key is to stay active and eat a balance diet...don't starve yourself.  As long as you are training on a regular basis and eating 500-800 calories below your daily requirements then you should be loosing weight consistently.  And there is nothing wrong with having a "cheat" day once in a while where you have pizza or whatever it is you are craving...don't worry about going over your calories that day just don't eat the whole pizza   Make sure you are taking a multi-vitamin too.

Good luck!

rb85cj7 - 2005-05-19 11:37 PM TH3 FRB -- Thanks for all the help. So what should my balance be 40%protien-30-30? You don't know how excited i am about getting to start eating like crazy. This is going to be awesome.

2005-05-20 11:11 AM
in reply to: #160518

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
Man i can't tell you how much help you have been. Thanks for all the time you have invested in helping me get on my way.

Thanks again.

i will look into the protein whey. i have been using it (cheap kind from the local grocier store). but it isn't very good. i will at more meat. which is good. mmmmm meat.


2005-05-20 11:26 AM
in reply to: #160560

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.

Hit DPS Nutrition.com.  The Optimum Nutrition stuff is good quality.  I prefrer chocolate but they have a few flavors.  you can get either a 5lb tub or 10lb bag for $25 or $45.  You get 74 25g scoops out of a 5lb tub so it should easily last you a month or more and end up only costing under a dollar per day.  Not sure if I mentioned it but at 215lbs you should be trying to get at least 215g or protein per day...the more from whole foods the better but a couple scoops of powder each day is a good way to hit your target.

rb85cj7 - 2005-05-20 11:11 AM Man i can't tell you how much help you have been. Thanks for all the time you have invested in helping me get on my way. Thanks again. i will look into the protein whey. i have been using it (cheap kind from the local grocier store). but it isn't very good. i will at more meat. which is good. mmmmm meat.

2005-05-20 12:29 PM
in reply to: #160575

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
TH3--

Thanks for the help. i will start planning my meals at 400 - 600 calories 5 times a day.

When you think of weightloss you think of cutting your diet. but i guess that is if you don't do anything. I just have to start eating the right things.

Thanks again
2005-05-20 1:25 PM
in reply to: #153738

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
You got it...eat smart!  I actually have to work to make sure I eat enough most days just to maintain.  I had to force myself to eat 1/2lb of cottage cheese before bed last night to hit my goal for the day...although I'm trying to add a little weight right now.  Let me know if you need any help along the way.
2005-05-20 2:46 PM
in reply to: #160670

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
will do and thanks again
2005-07-11 11:49 AM
in reply to: #153738

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
How's it going...any progress?


2005-07-12 8:40 AM
in reply to: #153738

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
I am down to 210 and have lost about 5-8% body fat according to my scale. Doing good in my trianing, but i haven't got to use fitday as much as i like. just don't have the time to log everything.

Thanks again for all the help
2005-07-12 9:07 AM
in reply to: #195732

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
20lbs and 5-8% bf...that's great!  FitDay is a nice tool to help track things but it certainly isn't necessary.  As long as you can stick with the basic concepts of eating 5-6 smaller "meals" per day, eating "clean" carbs & good fats, and not severely restricting your calories, it should work for you.  Congrats on the progress!
2005-07-12 12:19 PM
in reply to: #195766

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
Thanks again for you help
2005-07-14 11:03 AM
in reply to: #153738

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
Hey TH3_FRB and everyone else, thanks for all of the information. I've found it to be pretty helpful, too.

My question, however, is do the same rules apply to girls as to guys? I'm currently about 5'6" and 150lbs. I'm looking to lose about 20 lbs. I work out at least 3 times each week, generally running to build my endurance. But, as far as calories go, I have a hard time eating more than 1200 in a day (usually closer to 55/25/20). According to fitday (which I'm becoming more dedicated to over the past week), I'm burning about 2300 in a day. Should I be eating more and should I be changing the proportions that I'm eating? I haven't been seeing much weight loss as of yet.

Thanks for any input.
2005-07-14 11:19 AM
in reply to: #198091

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.

In theory the same ideas apply to women...eat 500cals per day less than you burn and you'll drop ~1lb per week.  Restrict your diet too much and your body will fight to keep every ounce it can and actually store more fat as a survival response. 

1200cals is fairly low if you are burning 2300 on average.  Some things you can try:  add flax seed oil, all natural peanut butter, or nuts (almonds, walnuts, peanuts) to your daily diet.  This will boost your intake (fat has 9cal per gram) and also provide you with essential fatty acids (good fats) that actually help your body burn fat.  Flax is great for you but doesn't taste all that good and you really need to take a lot if you want to use capsules.  I buy 16oz bottles at Vitamin World and take a pull right off the bottle at least once a day.  Also, olive oil is your friend.  Obviously, you can't go overboard with nuts and oils but you should definitely have them in your daily diet.  Also, scalke back your carb consumption after 4pm...I find it helps me to cut body fat  if I get most of my carbs in the first half of the day unless I'm training really hard (like now) and need extra carbs.

Make sure your major carbs are whole wheat breads and pasta, brown rice, yams and sweet potatos, whole grain cereals high in fiber and protein (Kashi Go Lean is my favorite).  And don't skimp on the protein...1.5-1.8g per kg of body weight for an active "recreational" athlete.  So you'd be looking at 100-125g of protein per day.



2005-07-14 1:14 PM
in reply to: #153738

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
I found another interesting thread on trifuel that was started by a woman so i might help. download her documents but remember that she is IM distance and isn't as worried about losing body fat. If I was you eat a balanced diet and try not to take supplements. You should be getting enough from the food you eat. Worry about the wieght in a few months. It will start to fall off. it is harder for women to judge weight loss because of the whole menstral thing. Eat enough to fill you up and don't go past that. If you keep training you will lose the weight that you want.

2005-07-14 1:48 PM
in reply to: #198118

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.
Thanks for all of the suggestions! 1800 calories seems like a lot to me right now, but I imagine your body gets used to it. If I'm undereating, that may explain why I've been so tired lately. Based on what you're saying, I need to eat about twice as much protein and maybe add some nuts or other good fats with my snacks. Seems like that could add the extra 600 calories that I need.

A few questions:

1. Almonds are usually the first suggestion for nuts, but I'm allergic to them (not to any other nuts). Are other nuts just as good or are some better than others?

2. Apart from meat and cereal (I like SmartStart, but I'm going to try the Kashi Go Lean), what are some other good sources of protein?

Thanks again for all your help.
2005-07-14 2:31 PM
in reply to: #198303

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.

Being tired all the time is definitely a sign of an insufficient diet.  Do you eat a lot of sugar and/or refined carbs?  You could be having insulin spikes and blood sugar crashes as a result.  A good multi-vitamin is also very important, especially for anyone who exercises regilarly.

Walnuts are good...and peanuts (and peanut butter).  Not sure if there is all that much difference between the different nuts.

I used to like Smart Start but it's got a lot of sugar (sugar, corn syrup, and high-fructose corn syrup are all on the ingredient list) and I've shifted away from anything that is heavily processed and/or refined.  Go Lean is high in protein and fiber...and has lot of good whole grain stuff (hence the fiber) and no added sugar or corn syrup in sight.  http://www.kashi.com/golean_cereal.aspx?SID=1&Category_ID=68&

Other good protein sources...milk (2% or skim), low fat cheese, yogurt (I prefer Carb Countdown brand because it is lower sugar and higher protein compared to regular yogurt), eggs (a few whites and one yolk), canned white albacore tuna (I eat a lot of tuna), protein powder (check out the Optimum Nutrition products on DPSnutrition.com), protein bars (I really like Detour, U-Turn, and Joy Ride bars...lots of protein and not too much carbs).



Edited by TH3_FRB 2005-07-14 2:39 PM
2005-07-14 8:43 PM
in reply to: #153738

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Subject: RE: Weight loss cal questions.

TH3: No joke, you need to write a book. You are a clear and direct writer, and have a very clear vision of a rational, commonsense, healthy diet. Take all the posts you've written here as notes, write a couple of chapters, and start sending 'em off to publishers.

Unless you've already done that and I'm just an idiot . . .
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