General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Narrowly missed an accident on the path... Rss Feed  
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2009-08-26 8:38 AM

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Subject: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...

I am kind of obsessed with this today, so I wanted to share with you all.  I was riding on the bike trails last night, and while heading West on the Cedar Lake Trail (just West of Louisiana), an accident happened right in front of me.

I was cruising along on this fast, slightly downhill, portion.  I was coming up to the next chunk of people to pass when I saw a small peleton riding towards me.   There were about 12-15 guys and I would guess they are in a club, although not wearing team jerseys or anything.  But picture a pretty professional looking unit, very close together. 

In front of me (my next passing target) was a man on an older road bike, NO HELMET OF COURSE, by himself on the path.  These paths are split into lanes wide enough for me to ride shoulder to shoulder with someone with plenty of room to spare.  I will often pass people, even if traffic is coming, because they are so wide and I can usually ride on the line a little if need be.  But I just had a feeling I should wait until the peleton went by.

As I saw the two meet, the dude in front me starts heading in the direction of the yellow line (target fixation?).  I think he's going to be lucky and make it by, but no.  He collides with a rider in the middle of the group, causing them both to go down as well as a few others in the peleton not 10 yards in front of me.  Then, a split second later, I have to avoid t-boning the guy laying on the path.  I managed to ride right through the middle and my husband was able to veer off into the grass.  But I literally saw my racing life pass before my eyes and I was really scared.  The funny part was that as the single guy was bouncing along the pavement he says "A$$HOLES!", as though they were at fault.  I hope it was just a gut reaction.

Single guy was bleeding from everywhere and peleton guys were circled around one friend, who was worried about a shoulder injury.  Single guy finally just got up and rode away, looking pretty pizzed (wtf???).  We called 911 and in about 5-10 mins a cop car headed down the path.  It made me realize how it's hard to get help on those paths.  We happened to be close enough to Louisiana Ave (which some people may not even realize what the cross streets are), to give good directions.  Although the cop did call us to ask where we were until we saw him. 

I'm trying to learn something from this.  Just like cars, you cannot trust other bikers.  The paths are treacherous on a nice night, when all levels of riders (and walkers, dogs, trikes, etc) are out, esp when riding at speeds upwards of 18mph.  Be aware of landmarks so you can describe your location if you need help. 

Anything else to learn?  Ugh, it was just depressing.  I felt like I was in the middle of Le Tour, when you see those guys flipping end-to-end and tumbling all over each other in a pile. 



2009-08-26 8:58 AM
in reply to: #2371232

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...
Wow, scary.  Glad you and hubby were able to avoid the mess! 

I had a scare a few weeks ago out by Lake Minnetonka where a trail crosses Mtka Blvd.  I was cruising down a steep hill going like 30 and in the middle of the right lane as no one was behind me or going to catch me quickly at that speed.  Speed limit was 35 I think.  I see up ahead a woman with a large stroller (double?) and a LARGE dog on a leash stopped on the right waiting at the trail crossing/crosswalk but not looking at me at all.  She is facing back up the trail on her cell phone (huge pet peeve!!!).  Dog seems to be watching me approach though!  All looks safe....with about 50 yards to go, the dog suddenly bolts out into the crosswalk - turns out the leash was one of the "extender" kinds.  I am going like 30, so hitting the brakes is not an option I figure....luckily no cars were coming at me so I could swerve into the other lane.  I yell, the woman looks up startled and tightens the leash and hauls on the dog who barely budges.  All safe, but man, that got my heart rate up there!  One lucky thing - I was on my horns as I had just taken a drink instead of in aero so I could swerve and stay in control.

Same lesson - look ahead and always expect for the worst...especially where cell phones and/or distracted persons are involved!
2009-08-26 9:14 AM
in reply to: #2371297

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...

Not a ride goes by where I don't worry about dog darting.  And half the time the dog owners don't even look apologetic when it does happen.  I can sympathize if I come up behind you and your dog on the path, and I scare the dog.  But stopping them from darting across the path is not too much to ask, imho.

And I realize I could be riding on the road.  But these particular paths do not have speed limits and are built for riding.  I would feel entirely different if I were trying to do this around Lake Calhoun, for instance.

2009-08-26 9:16 AM
in reply to: #2371232

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...
Wow!  So scary.  I'm very wary when riding on the trails around here.  I trust NO ONE.  Really, I avoid the trails if at all possible.  Around here where there are miles of safe country roads, the bike path is not the place for us.  I know it's different in town and you have to use what you have.  Still scary.  Be careful out there!
2009-08-26 11:25 AM
in reply to: #2371232

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...
Is it normal to see pelotons on the bike trails in the cities? Even though probably not against any rules, that seems to be: 1) a recipe for trouble and 2) a great way to get a less-than-ideal workout. I might see the occasional group of 2 (and very rarely 3) riding close at a pretty good clip on the Cannon Valley, but never groups larger than that. Anybody who isn't the first rider or two doesn't have a fighting chance to react if anything happens.

Glad to hear you didn't fare any worse.
2009-08-26 12:23 PM
in reply to: #2371797

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...

This group was larger than normal, but I do often see groups of 4 or 5.  Yeah, doesn't seem like a good workout and also unnecessarily risky.  Although I suppose it's hard to manage a group that size on the road, where you shouldn't be riding more than 2 abreast.  Hard to understand those roadies



2009-08-26 3:37 PM
in reply to: #2371232

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...
Ride early, fewer dogs/cars/hacks (golf reference for people bad at your sport).  Glad you didn't join the carnage.  I really think riding early is the only thing you can do to reduce the risk.
2009-08-28 2:11 AM
in reply to: #2371232

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...

I have something of an advantage since I work overnights and can get out on the trails late morning/early afternoon when there are fewer users, but I call this CRUS aka. Clueless Recreational User Syndrome. 

This syndrome is characterized by a general lack of awareness of one's surroundings stemming from said person not having a specific purpose for being on the trail.  The trail is an end in itself (just being outside) for these people, unlike a lot of us here where the trail is a means to an end (fitness, training, though fare). 

Specific symptoms include:
Erratic actions: not holding a line, sudden stops, starts and left turns
Inability to control animals on leashes
Inability to control kids (not on leashes) esp. kids on bikes out of reach and weaving all over the place
Lack of attention
Inability to hear "on the left" due to headphones, cell phones, or selective hearing
Inability to predict the actions of other users on the path and allow other users space
Inability to comprehend that others may be trying to accomplish something out there related to time, distance or other goals

This is syndrome can be confused with DATUS or Drunk Trail User Syndrome, however those afflicted with DATUS will show more stumbling, vomiting and aggressive behavior than the more common CRUS sufferer.

The saddest part of both of these is that those afflicted rarely understand they have a problem and therefore do not seek help, they simply blame others for their situation. This is comparable to a similar condition found in pool users called PESTY or Phelps Emulator Slow To Yield

They have no reason not to engage in these behaviors because they aren't driven by a time, plan or goal and so don't realize that others might be trying to do something more than going out for a walk.  If a bike nearly mows them down they blame the biker and not their own unpredictable behavior.

They also have the gall to be startled when passed as they are tooling along with the headphones or the cell.  Not my fault that they can't hear me coming up when they put stuff in their ears and crank up the volume.

Oh well

We are rec users too but we don't tend to be as clueless.  Trails are multi-user and funded by everyone too. I get that there shouldn't be a limit  to who can use them. On the other hand, the only reason we don't get in a car accident every time we get behind the wheel is that most people have an understanding of a set of rules of conduct on the street and an awareness that if you choose to ignore them that problems will occur.  There are user rules posted for most trails, but since we don't need a license for our feet no one reads really them. Anyway here are a couple of links for bikes in the media in the last few days: 

http://www.startribune.com/local/51532117.html
http://kstp.com/news/stories/S1105837.shtml?cat=206

2009-08-28 9:06 AM
in reply to: #2375635

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...

Beth - that's awesome!  Very astute.

I like this from the Star Tribune article.  Pretty much sums up my problem:

Even so, drivers seem more likely to stop for bicyclists than they used to be, Springer said. But that causes confusion about who's in the right.   "If we're already developing a culture of deferring to the cyclist, let's codify that," he said. "Where the practice differs from the laws, it's dangerous."

Edit:  Just had to pull myself away from the comments on the strib article.  Very interesting...

2009-08-28 9:16 AM
in reply to: #2375635

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...
MADFOXZZ75 - 2009-08-28 2:11 AM

I have something of an advantage...in the last few days: 

http://www.startribune.com/local/51532117.html
http://kstp.com/news/stories/S1105837.shtml?cat=206



BT needs a 'like' button!

Great articles...
2009-08-31 5:13 AM
in reply to: #2376028

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...
BikerGrrrl - 2009-08-28 8:06 AM

Edit:  Just had to pull myself away from the comments on the strib article.  Very interesting...



Thanks all!  Sometimes something good comes out. 

I try to avoid the strib comments as much as possible.  I swear the most brainless people who just want to tick others off show up on there, but this one actually had a decent tone to them.  Surprising, usually when any time bikes are reported on there is some dual tailpipe snorting how the road is theirs.  Maybe there is progress happening


2009-09-01 11:38 AM
in reply to: #2371232

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...
Thanks for sharing that story.  I've started doing more group rides this year and love them.  I'd hate to have run across that lone guy who was apparently not aware of his surroundings (?)  I am assuming the group was only taking up 1/2 the trail and this guy was in the middle trying to make his move.  I didn't see it, but he sounds like a dillweed.

As for using the trails, I only see the groups using them to avoid busy roads to get to less-busy roads.  I know from my experience that quiet roads (or even busier roads with large shoulders) are much preferred to trails.  It's also my experience that groups do a very good job communicating that bikes/cars/pedestrians are in front or behind the group so that all riders are aware.
2009-09-01 12:04 PM
in reply to: #2376058

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...
sparco - 2009-08-28 9:16 AM

MADFOXZZ75 - 2009-08-28 2:11 AM

I have something of an advantage...in the last few days: 

http://www.startribune.com/local/51532117.html
http://kstp.com/news/stories/S1105837.shtml?cat=206



BT needs a 'like' button!

Great articles...


I like to hear that recreational riders and cyclists are going to be held accountable for their actions (KSTP report). I've seen too many dumb actions happen on bikes that hurts the rest of the cycling community.
2009-09-01 12:28 PM
in reply to: #2382661

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...

Your assessment is pretty accurate = dillweed.  The group was taking up pretty much their whole half of the path (as they have the right to) and this guy wasn't even passing someone.  He just veered right into their lane...

rhvonlehe - 2009-09-01 11:38 AM Thanks for sharing that story.  I've started doing more group rides this year and love them.  I'd hate to have run across that lone guy who was apparently not aware of his surroundings (?)  I am assuming the group was only taking up 1/2 the trail and this guy was in the middle trying to make his move.  I didn't see it, but he sounds like a dillweed.

2009-09-03 11:56 AM
in reply to: #2371232

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...

this is exactly why "bike paths" are now the last place on earth where I'll ride my bike...easy for me to say living out in cow country...but even when I travel - no way in frickin' heck...I even get nervous running on bike paths when I'm forced to train while on biz travel

2009-09-03 1:54 PM
in reply to: #2387397

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...
Birkierunner - 2009-09-03 11:56 AM

this is exactly why "bike paths" are now the last place on earth where I'll ride my bike...easy for me to say living out in cow country...but even when I travel - no way in frickin' heck...I even get nervous running on bike paths when I'm forced to train while on biz travel



I'm fortunate enough to live in the south burbs where many of the bike paths follow the county roads.  Intersections on many of the paths are at exactly 1 mile intervals.  Great for running, maybe not so great for biking.  So I usually use the bike paths when I'm biking with my wife or family.

Funny how when I ride on the county roads, I occasionally get a disgruntled driver yell out the window "ride on the bike path!"  If only they knew how difficult it is to stop at 18mph when a walker/runner/biker with headphones on meanders into your path. 


2009-09-03 2:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...

I am always thinking of things I would write, if I could trail a billboard or something on my bike.  Things like:

  1. See MN Stat 169.222 - Bikes are allowed on the road.
  2. Where's your helmet, idiot?
  3. Take out the earphones and pay attention
  4. If you're passing me, let me know

What else? 

 

2009-09-03 2:36 PM
in reply to: #2371232

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...
Hi Friends,

The situation you mentioned here is why I never train on any bike trail. Kind of seems counter to logic to not be able to safely ride on a bike trail, but we are not your average bike rider. We are not riding our mountain bike, helmetless, lollygaging around staring at birds and flowers. I am not knocking that at all, I ride with my family on our cruisers just enjoying the day. However, training at 18 - 25 mph or more is not safe on a bike trail, especially if you are on aero bars and bent over. Rule of thumb is to get out on the open roads if you are going to be at high speeds. Then you only have to worry about mirrors clipping you in the rear end or elbows. I get yelled at on occasion by motorists telling me to ride on the bike trail. Sheesh, I can't win. LOL Anyway, that is my take. People as why we don't have bikes go on the bike trail for our events. Your experience is exactly why we will never do an event of any kind that takes our bikers down a bike trail, just plain unsafe.

Anyway, got to get out and mark the Treadman Course. See you all soon.

Those of you going to St Croix Tri have a good time, say hi to Mark Bongers for me!

IM AZ or bust!

Bill Nevala
Race Director
2009-09-03 3:02 PM
in reply to: #2387922

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...
BikerGrrrl - 2009-09-03 2:29 PM

I am always thinking of things I would write, if I could trail a billboard or something on my bike.  Things like:

  1. See MN Stat 169.222 - Bikes are allowed on the road.
  2. Where's your helmet, idiot?
  3. Take out the earphones and pay attention
  4. If you're passing me, let me know

What else? 





If you AREN'T wearing earphones and I politely yell 'on your left,' it doesn't mean MOVE TO THE LEFT.

I guess I shouldn't be lazy and just yell 'PASSING on your left.'

Sometimes I think people should have to pass a 'bike trail courtesy' test before being allowed to use the trail.  Sigh...I guess we all need to start somewhere...
2009-09-03 4:58 PM
in reply to: #2371232

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...

Good to hear you are all right Emily.  I DO NOT ride on bike paths unless I have to.  Rode on my first path today after canoeing and darn near got in a crash.  My last 2 crashes were also on this path, The Cannon Trail.  I'm coming up on a group of three and yell a little warning "On your left"  What do they do?  Two of them dart off to the left into my passing lane.  I had slowed enough and was able to swerve into the grass to avoid the.  I will not ride on paths again.

2009-09-04 8:11 AM
in reply to: #2388341

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...

It bugs me that the solution is that I should avoid the path.  This particular path (Cedar Lake Trail, leads to Greenway) is like a bicycle highway.  This is not your everyday lake path, for instance, meant more for scenery than anything.  This is a route that connects me to where I need to go.  I assumed that was the point of it and there is no posted speed limit, like there is around lake paths.

There have been a lot of articles about the surge of popularity in biking, one that struck me was in my current issue of Dwell Magazine (or all weird places).  They were talking about design and that bicycle companies was busily working on ways to mass produce cheaper, better bikes.  But the author of the article suggests that if we want to make biking more "accessible" (presumably why this product design is going on) the work needs to go into the infrastructure to make biking easier/safer and not just creating different bike designs.   For instance, I live about 14 biking miles from my work place.  The first 10 could be on this path, but the last four are riding on city streets and I am not crazy about these particular streets so I've avoided riding to work.  If someone built a safe path to ride on Snelling Ave, I would ride to work. 

But, if your argument is that the paths are recreational...

When I'm biking on these paths, I am doing it mostly for the sheer joy of it.  Yes, I'm on a bike where I ride aero.  Yes, I can comfortably be going 20+ a lot of the time, since it's a very flat path.   I am putting in the miles and having a good time.  Why should I temper my use of the path? 

I think in one article link posted above I read a statement about how if we behaved as wackily on the road in cars, as we do on paths, it would be mayhem and accidents all day long (this is paraphrased of course).   So I'm a Porsche/Tribike and you're a Yugo/cruiser.  That's cool, we can both be there.  But how about some respect and a desire to play well together?  All we'd need to do is get serious about training and spreading the word about rules, just like we do before we put people behind the steering wheel in a car.

(Bryan - stay the heck off that Cannon trail!!!!)



2009-09-11 3:37 AM
in reply to: #2371232

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...
I do ride bike paths regularly, but often it is to get out to the country roads.  The thing about bike paths for me is the intersections.  Even if I can rip along because they are so flat, you still need to slow down to make sure you don't get nailed by a clueless driver crossing the street.  I hate slowing down so much.  It is a good argument for driving to a place to bike, but I try not to do that, makes me feel silly.  Now I'm probably moving to Coon Rapids though, which appears to be the flattest place on earth...may have to review my options south or east to find some hills.
2009-09-11 6:05 AM
in reply to: #2389132

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Subject: RE: Narrowly missed an accident on the path...
I hear ya Emily. In your area a trail is still probably safer than the city streets. That's not the case out my way. I'll take my chances on a county road with no shoulder before I ride a NE metro trail on a weekend.

FWIW I saw someonel at the local tri shop with a cast on one arm and some head trauma. Yep, she got together with someone on a trail last Saturday.

Be safe out there people!

BikerGrrrl - 2009-09-04 8:11 AM

It bugs me that the solution is that I should avoid the path.  This particular path (Cedar Lake Trail, leads to Greenway) is like a bicycle highway.  This is not your everyday lake path, for instance, meant more for scenery than anything.  This is a route that connects me to where I need to go.  I assumed that was the point of it and there is no posted speed limit, like there is around lake paths.

There have been a lot of articles about the surge of popularity in biking, one that struck me was in my current issue of Dwell Magazine (or all weird places).  They were talking about design and that bicycle companies was busily working on ways to mass produce cheaper, better bikes.  But the author of the article suggests that if we want to make biking more "accessible" (presumably why this product design is going on) the work needs to go into the infrastructure to make biking easier/safer and not just creating different bike designs.   For instance, I live about 14 biking miles from my work place.  The first 10 could be on this path, but the last four are riding on city streets and I am not crazy about these particular streets so I've avoided riding to work.  If someone built a safe path to ride on Snelling Ave, I would ride to work. 

But, if your argument is that the paths are recreational...

When I'm biking on these paths, I am doing it mostly for the sheer joy of it.  Yes, I'm on a bike where I ride aero.  Yes, I can comfortably be going 20+ a lot of the time, since it's a very flat path.   I am putting in the miles and having a good time.  Why should I temper my use of the path? 

I think in one article link posted above I read a statement about how if we behaved as wackily on the road in cars, as we do on paths, it would be mayhem and accidents all day long (this is paraphrased of course).   So I'm a Porsche/Tribike and you're a Yugo/cruiser.  That's cool, we can both be there.  But how about some respect and a desire to play well together?  All we'd need to do is get serious about training and spreading the word about rules, just like we do before we put people behind the steering wheel in a car.

(Bryan - stay the heck off that Cannon trail!!!!)

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