General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Unsolicited advice? Rss Feed  
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2009-09-02 10:30 AM

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Subject: Unsolicited advice?
There is a nice gal that swims next to me fairly often at the YMCA. She is obviously into swimming, brings fins, paddles, and does prescribed workouts.

One thing that drives me nuts is that she is a great swimmer but for one thing: for her entry (and into water) she doesn't enter as much as SLAP the water, making a big splash. So watching it's like wincing every two seconds when she slaps the water, making the splash. (As an aside, it seems to be a habit she built from using the paddles too much, it seems with the paddles she likes to slap the water, but then even when not using them she still does it).

I have been tempted multiple times to try to diplomatically, nicely, say something.

What do you think? Should I keep my mouth shut? If you think it is appropriate to say something, how should I approach it?

Note typically I am not this concerned, and of course I realize most people don't give a crap about their stroke, but she obviously is working hard at it.


2009-09-02 10:38 AM
in reply to: #2384846

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over a barrier
Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
I wouldn't mention it unless you're on friendly terms with her. You mention she is a great swimmer...it obvisouly isn't effecting her.

There is a guy I swim with on ocassion that does the same thing, and it drives me nuts to watch....
2009-09-02 10:41 AM
in reply to: #2384846

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Master
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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?

Women love unsolicited swim tips from guys they don't know.

2009-09-02 10:49 AM
in reply to: #2384846

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Master
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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
Ask her out for dinner, movie.  After a few dates and you finally hit a homerun with her start talking swimming. Then maybe slip to  her the fact that her hand slapping bugs you!

So give it a try and let us know how it goes! Good luck

Kevin
2009-09-02 10:52 AM
in reply to: #2384846

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?

"Hey, you look like you are really committed to your swim training. *more blah blah blah* ... Do you mind if I offer some unsolicited advice on your stroke?"

2009-09-02 10:52 AM
in reply to: #2384846

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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?

I would say most folks would not like to be given unsolicated advice but personally I love it when it is done in the proper manner.  It is not like I can watch myself swim...  The last time it was done to me the guys said "Would you like a suggestion on your swim stroke?".  He just so happens to be the life guard and the masters swim coach so I was like "Hell yeah" but he also said it in a tone that made me feel like he just had some advise to give me that might help and wasn't being condensending. 



2009-09-02 11:06 AM
in reply to: #2384846

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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
I swim in a Bally's with very few strong swimmers (no masters group). I'm a BOP swimmer, but I've worked hard on my technique, and had it checked out by a coach, who thought it was very good, with no major flaws.

I'm always horrified with the swim techniques I see at Ballys. I probably learned a lot of what NOT to do, by seeing every variation of wrong being done. I'd guesstimate that 98% of swimmers at my pool have serious, obvious defects in their swim form.

It HURTS me to not offer them a tidbit of advice, but I generally don't, as I don't know if they're just swimming once in a blue moon for fun, or are just happy with the fact that they can do a few laps. In my pool, odds are nearly 100% that they are not racing in a triathlon or swim meet, so good form for them is probably anything that gets them from end to end without stopping.

But god, when I see the hugely dropped legs in the water, half-reach strokes, and crazy body snakes and rolls, I feel like I'm doing swimming an injustice to not at least mention the glaring error to them, especially because I just made and corrected all of them for myself.
2009-09-02 11:14 AM
in reply to: #2384846

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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
I like receiving unsolicited advice, because as someone said above, I'll take anything that will help me improve!!!

I've had a couple of guys offer advice, but it was after we got into friendly conversation at the end up the pool between sets.  If you decide to do it, start with small talk and try to get a feel as to whether she'll be receptive or not before going there.

There's a girl who swims beside me who swims like a octopus.  I don't know how else to describe it.  It's hard to watch.
2009-09-02 11:18 AM
in reply to: #2384846

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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
if you have run into her on numerous occasions and she recognizes you....i say go for it.  i've been swimming for most of my life but i also know that i have bad habits that like to come back from time to time when i swim alone.  i wouldn't mind if someone gave me some contructive criticism.

(for example, my right arm still crosses over if i don't pay close attention to it in warm-up, etc.)  sometimes we do things in the water that we don't even realize, like her slapping the water. 

i might try to put the analysis a little more delicately, as in...i notice that your hand seems a little flat on the entry and there is a splash each time your hand enters the water.  i know from experience that when i swim a lot with paddles my hand entry flattens out, etc. etc. etc.  she might look at you weird but hey, you gave it a shot.
2009-09-02 11:21 AM
in reply to: #2384979

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Sin City
Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
I would leave it alone...

There are MANY times I see a swim flaw, and know I could help, but just let it rest unless asked (which HAS happened).
2009-09-02 11:23 AM
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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
"Want some friendly advice?" 
"No"
"Oh, ok... I won't say that your butt looks fat in that suit."

<leave... quickly>


2009-09-02 12:02 PM
in reply to: #2384915

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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
bzgl40 - 2009-09-02 8:52 AM

...The last time it was done to me the guys said "Would you like a suggestion on your swim stroke?" He just so happens to be the life guard and the masters swim coach so I was like "Hell yeah" but he also said it in a tone that made me feel like he just had some advice to give me that might help and wasn't being condensending.



I'm one of those people who love unsolicited advice, but I agree with other folks that most people probably don't like it. That said, why not at least ask her if you could make a suggestion? Worst case, she says no thanks, you guys keep doing your own thing. I think the key is above: be polite, be gentle, *do not* be condescending. You could compliment her on her otherwise great form, as long as you don't make it sound like you're just trying to make her feel better.
2009-09-02 12:06 PM
in reply to: #2384846

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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
Why not turn it into a question - "I'm really trying to work on my technique and I notice you seem to slap the water hard with your hands upon entry. You seem like a strong swimmer, so I'm curious if I'm missing something?".
2009-09-02 12:30 PM
in reply to: #2384846

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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
There's a guy here who swims like that too - slap, slap, slap.  He also swims 48 minutes for the IM.

So back to your question - no, I would definitely not try and offer any advice.  People have different opinions and while some might appreciate the advice, others might take it the wrong way.  Unless I were Micheal Phelps, I'd never try to other advice to someone else at the pool unsolicited.
2009-09-02 12:33 PM
in reply to: #2384846

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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
You should have made this a Poll.

Personally, I'd give advice only if someone asked for my advice (which is never at the pool because my stroke is embarrasing and the guys and gals swimming in the lanes next to me are probably the one's dying to advise).  

So, my (solicited) advice to you is don't do it until asked.  Then, be more than happy to let loose a river of all the accumulated knowledge that you have on hands slapping the water. 
2009-09-02 12:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
If she thinks you have something  to offer her in terms of improving her swim, she'll ask you.


2009-09-02 12:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
Then again look at the technique Janet Evans used.  She whacked the crap out of the water (at about double the cadence I could keep up).

I think that turned out ok for her...


2009-09-02 12:50 PM
in reply to: #2385235

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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
sand101 - 2009-09-02 12:35 PM Then again look at the technique Janet Evans used.  She whacked the crap out of the water (at about double the cadence I could keep up).

I think that turned out ok for her...




A friend's son swims this way - he also started as a freshmen this fall on a swimming scholarship at an NCAA Div 1 (Horizon League) school.  Maybe its not a problem ...?
2009-09-02 12:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?

Said in slow motion: Nooooooooooooo

There are many ways you will look like a bad guy here (I know your intentions are good) and very few where you will be perceived correctly. Step away from the cliff and move along :-)

2009-09-02 1:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
For the most part, I would say competitive swimmers don't usually give unsolicited advice to others unless they are clearly just starting out.  This is because the assumption is that other swimmers have had coaching and are therefore aware of their flaws.  Some flaws don't affect the swimmer's time/comfort in the water.  Others the swimmer may have just accepted or is too lazy to modify.

I would not say anything unless you have an idea of her swimming past.  The only time I offer unsolicited advice is if someone is very obviously just starting out.  If she is using paddles and fins, doing sets and is a "great" swimmer, that makes me think that she has been coached and is therefore aware of the slapping.

Edited by happyshoes 2009-09-02 1:33 PM
2009-09-02 1:45 PM
in reply to: #2384846

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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
 I started thinking about all the complaints people were making on the "Weirdness at the Gym" thread.   Apparently Triathletes hate getting unsolicited advice?  Probably goes for good swimmers too.   

That said,  since I am just now getting where I feel good in the water, if someone with "SKILLS" offered advice, I would be appreciative.   But, if the guy in the lane next to me, who falls farther and farther back on each lap offers advice, I would be ticked.   Especially if he winks at me too.

 


2009-09-02 2:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
I wouldn't do it, but I have wanted to ask a couple of guys I see regularly why they swim they way they do.

One guy pulls his arm out of the water very quickly and kind of flicks his wrist a couple of times as it reaches the high point of the stroke, and then re-enters the water very slowly, like slow motion slowly. It looks like his hands want very badly to get out of the water, then shake all water off themselves, and then resist getting back in the water.

The other guy does this thing with just one of his hands where he sort of lines it up with his midline and enters the water with his hand vertical.  Looks kind of like he trying to make a shark fin on his head. Only does it with one hand. Makes me smile.

Edited by mrbbrad 2009-09-02 2:53 PM
2009-09-02 2:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
neuronet - 2009-09-02 11:30 AM There is a nice gal that swims next to me fairly often at the YMCA. She is obviously into swimming, brings fins, paddles, and does prescribed workouts.

One thing that drives me nuts is that she is a great swimmer but for one thing: for her entry (and into water) she doesn't enter as much as SLAP the water, making a big splash. So watching it's like wincing every two seconds when she slaps the water, making the splash. (As an aside, it seems to be a habit she built from using the paddles too much, it seems with the paddles she likes to slap the water, but then even when not using them she still does it).

I have been tempted multiple times to try to diplomatically, nicely, say something.

What do you think? Should I keep my mouth shut? If you think it is appropriate to say something, how should I approach it?

Note typically I am not this concerned, and of course I realize most people don't give a crap about their stroke, but she obviously is working hard at it.


i don't think you have any advice to offer her.  she is a strong swimmer, and you are annoyed by the splashing.  choose a lane further down, don't watch, go at a different time of day.
2009-09-02 2:54 PM
in reply to: #2384846

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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
Haven't read the whole thread, so it's probably been said....   I bet someone would go to Michael Phelps and say "you know, you really should even out your stroke."  There's a woman in my masters who takes 20 strokes per 25 yds.  She used to swim for Italy.  Some of the fastest swimmers I know have the weirdest technique, so no, I wouldn't say anything unless asked
2009-09-02 2:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Unsolicited advice?
neuronet - 2009-09-02 10:30 AM There is a nice gal that swims next to me fairly often at the YMCA. She is obviously into swimming, brings fins, paddles, and does prescribed workouts.

One thing that drives me nuts is that she is a great swimmer but for one thing: for her entry (and into water) she doesn't enter as much as SLAP the water, making a big splash. So watching it's like wincing every two seconds when she slaps the water, making the splash. (As an aside, it seems to be a habit she built from using the paddles too much, it seems with the paddles she likes to slap the water, but then even when not using them she still does it).

I have been tempted multiple times to try to diplomatically, nicely, say something.

What do you think? Should I keep my mouth shut? If you think it is appropriate to say something, how should I approach it?

Note typically I am not this concerned, and of course I realize most people don't give a crap about their stroke, but she obviously is working hard at it.

splashing might or might not be an indication of good or bad stroke or good/bad economy. Is she a fast swimmer?
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