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2009-09-10 7:56 PM

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Subject: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)
Just got home from Masters swim practice.  Coach says that I need to become more bouyant.  It is true, because I always feel like I am sinking.  When I swim, I feel like I am fighting to stay afloat instead of pushing forward through the water.  The problem is that he said he is not quite sure how to fix it.  Any suggestions?


2009-09-10 8:17 PM
in reply to: #2399917

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Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)

Make sure your head is down. In Total Immersion, they call it "pressing the buoy", or pressing the chest downwards into the water. This uses the buoyancy of your lungs and will help keep your legs afloat and not dragging behind you, which is the single biggest slowdown factor for brand new swimmers.

Be careful to NOT use strong kicking to compensate for poor body position. A small kick is ok, but a lot of beginners rely on an inefficient yet strong kick to keep their legs up, which only reinforces bad swim technique. 

I think use of a "pull-buoy" is the single greatest device for new swimmers with body position problems. It'll help keep your legs afloat at slow speeds, and also will prevent you from grossly over-rotating when you breathe (another huge beginner problem.) When I started using this as a beginner swimmer, I made a huge speed jump (it's not easy though.) Try not to kick when holding the pull buoy, and you'll isolate your upper body for good positioning. Also translates directly to wetsuit swimming.

I'm super dense and short (big legs, low body fat, heavy for my size), and I can get my legs to float (with a negligible kick), so it doesn't depend solely on your body makeup.

2009-09-10 8:26 PM
in reply to: #2399917

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Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)
Gotta agree with the above, I have yet to use a pull bouy but trying to press your head down helps push your butt and legs towards the top.  I need to video my swimming and see how my rotation looks.  I am a bit worried that I still may be over rotating.
2009-09-10 8:34 PM
in reply to: #2399917

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Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)
My coach had me work with an ankle band (basically a tire tube tied into a circle) so that I could not kick and was forced to press my chest down more to get my legs up. I would do sets with the ankle band and paddles, with the band paddles and pull buoy, and with nothing. It is really hard at first and makes you want to hit someone, but with time it becomes easier and it's the fastest way for me to fix my form when I feel it slipping - put the band back on for a few sets and my body position improves. In addition, holding the better body position instead of using my kick to compensate means I now use my upper body muscles more correctly for the stroke.
2009-09-10 9:14 PM
in reply to: #2399917

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Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)
A friend of mine, who was a swim teacher, advised to keep your head down but DO NOT touch your chin to your chest. "Search the bottom" of the water for hidden treasure. (My swim efficiency increased twofold w/that tip. [I'm self-taught.])
2009-09-11 12:17 AM
in reply to: #2399917

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Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)
Proviso:  I am a beginner, not an expert.

I'm not really sure what you mean by 'more buoyant'.  You are what you are.  You can increase bouyancy by putting on more fat, but that doesn't seem like a good idea....

I guess the issue is what others guessed, i.e., proper position.  When you say you are sinking, are you talking about your feet?

I will say that as a beginner, the pull buoy both helped and hurt me.  Yes, it can help to get you to feel what good position feels like.  But it can also become a crutch.  I would not recommend using it more than necessary, and in any case, I would alternate sets with and without it, so that you are really teaching yourself to get into that horizontal position WITHOUT the pull buoy, rather than letting it become a crutch for getting into that position.


2009-09-11 12:37 AM
in reply to: #2399917

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Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)
The suggestion of head further down so the water breaks at the crown of the head, with you looking down to the bottom of the pool will help.  In addition, look up the idea of front swimming up on you tube.  While you are swimming, glide with your arms up front for a little longer than you might think.  Both of these techniques will move your center of gravity further foward and help your lower body float better.

The most common reason for swimmers legs or lower body to sink is poor breathing techniques.

Swimming is all about physics.  For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction.  If you are lifting your head to breath or any time during your stroke, you will sink and plow water.  If your catch and underwater pull is incorrect and you are pushing the water down with a straight arm (very common beginner mistake) you body will go up and then sink.

Technique is everything in swimming.  Look on you tube under swimming techniques for all the olympic swimmers and how they swim.
2009-09-11 9:07 AM
in reply to: #2399917

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Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)
I'm a certified sinker.  Pick a position, and I'll sink...to the bottom...quickly...(and bounce off the bottom!)
2009-09-11 9:07 AM
in reply to: #2399917

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Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)
sounds like you are looking for better balance in the water, not so much "buoyancy."  larger muscles groups (ie your legs) tend to sink so its more difficult to keep them up at the surface.

completely agree w/ muppetdog's post.  you should get an ankle band to use w/ the pull buoy.  this is one of the greatest tools for teaching proper body roll/ rotation & balance because you have to isolate the upper body and can't depend on your legs.  it will be frustrating at first but will pay off in the long run.

another easy drill is to actually practice "floating."  hold your breath and lay face down in the water (you may want to warn someone you are doing this first, so the lifeguard doesn't freak out).  it helps understand how you balance in the water without worrying about forward motion.  it will also reveal to you how fast your legs are sinking. (our club coach made us do this drill a few times a season, it helps more than you would expect it to)
2009-09-11 10:58 AM
in reply to: #2399917

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Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)
I agree with the above... the only part of you that really floats is your lungs.  If your head is up your butt is down and visa versa.  There is a ballence point that you need to find to become flat and video taping is the best way to show this to you.  It turns out that with running there is also a ballence point as to how much lean you have for the pace you want.  If you are too straight you don't quite roll into the faster pace (but bend at the ankles not at the waist).  Experiment with it and get the feel, there are drills to help with it.  It remains an area for me to work on as well and does make a difference with speed/efficiency. 
2009-09-11 11:43 AM
in reply to: #2399917

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Modesto, California
Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)
Zupe - 2009-09-10 5:56 PM Just got home from Masters swim practice.  Coach says that I need to become more bouyant.  It is true, because I always feel like I am sinking.  When I swim, I feel like I am fighting to stay afloat instead of pushing forward through the water.  The problem is that he said he is not quite sure how to fix it.  Any suggestions?

I would be concerned if your coach can't offer any suggestions after looking at your stroke, this is very common for age group men, experienced swimmers should be versed in this. Work on your core strength, ab,obliques,lower back,hip flexors,etc. to strengthen your posture when you swim, you probably notice you sink more as the workout progresses, as your core fatigues so will your position leading to hips and legs sinking. As with biking,running,walking,etc. when you slouch or posture gets out of wack things get difficult real fast. I disagree with using a pull bouy, while it may keep your hips up and strengthen your pull, it does nothing to help your balance and leads to over or under rotation, its not designed for that, toss it! Strengthen your kick ,swim more, work on core and you ride with your hips on top of the water for longer periods.


2009-09-11 7:25 PM
in reply to: #2399917

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Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)
I would get a new coach.
2009-09-11 9:43 PM
in reply to: #2400951

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Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)
nevergivin - 2009-09-11 11:43 AM
Zupe - 2009-09-10 5:56 PM Just got home from Masters swim practice.  Coach says that I need to become more bouyant.  It is true, because I always feel like I am sinking.  When I swim, I feel like I am fighting to stay afloat instead of pushing forward through the water.  The problem is that he said he is not quite sure how to fix it.  Any suggestions?

I would be concerned if your coach can't offer any suggestions after looking at your stroke, this is very common for age group men, experienced swimmers should be versed in this. Work on your core strength, ab,obliques,lower back,hip flexors,etc. to strengthen your posture when you swim, you probably notice you sink more as the workout progresses, as your core fatigues so will your position leading to hips and legs sinking. As with biking,running,walking,etc. when you slouch or posture gets out of wack things get difficult real fast. I disagree with using a pull bouy, while it may keep your hips up and strengthen your pull, it does nothing to help your balance and leads to over or under rotation, its not designed for that, toss it! Strengthen your kick ,swim more, work on core and you ride with your hips on top of the water for longer periods.


Definitely disagree ith your "toss the pull buoy" assessment .

From direct experience, it was the BIGGEST help in adjusting my rotation correctly, balancing correctly, and developing a proper balanced upper body stroke. I can't imagine a coach even being able to verbally point out the numerous things it fixed for me, and the best part is that all I did was focus on swimming with the buoy while minimizing my kick and stabilizing my lower body for minimal movement. That's it. No extra drills, no complicated coach analysis, or anything else needed. If you have balance and rotation problems, they become painfully obvious when you do this with a buoy; itwill bring up flaws that you never even realized you had.

Over-rotation is a common one that gets fixed quick with the buoy - if you're over-rotating, you'll feel the buoy lurching between your legs - it should feel relatively stationary. I found that I had to swim "flat as a board" to get it right. (I later had my form checked by a OWS champion swim coach who said my rotation was perfect and who even called me a "natural swimmer!" when it was really all from pull buoy work - and I have a video of my pre-buoy technique to prove it.)

I did freestyle drills seriously up the wa-zoo for months prior to using the pull buoy - pretty much every one in the book, and not one of them yielded the technique benefit of pull buoy swimming.

I also found that weaning yourself off the buoy is EASY if you're swimming with minimal kick with the buoy. It took me 3-4 entire weeks of feeling like I was re-learning to swim all over again with the buoy, but once I felt comfortable with the buoy, the transition to buoy-less swimming was nearly instantaneous, and I had no dropoff in speed.

Best part is that the buoy also translates DIRECTLY to wetsuit swimming - you'll know intuitively after training with the buoy how to take advantage of the added buoyancy in your legs and hips.
2009-09-12 1:57 PM
in reply to: #2399917

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Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)
Aquagirl needs her own calendar.
2009-09-13 12:26 AM
in reply to: #2401805

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Modesto, California
Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)

agarose2000 - 2009-09-11 7:43 PM
nevergivin - 2009-09-11 11:43 AM
Zupe - 2009-09-10 5:56 PM Just got home from Masters swim practice.  Coach says that I need to become more bouyant.  It is true, because I always feel like I am sinking.  When I swim, I feel like I am fighting to stay afloat instead of pushing forward through the water.  The problem is that he said he is not quite sure how to fix it.  Any suggestions?

I would be concerned if your coach can't offer any suggestions after looking at your stroke, this is very common for age group men, experienced swimmers should be versed in this. Work on your core strength, ab,obliques,lower back,hip flexors,etc. to strengthen your posture when you swim, you probably notice you sink more as the workout progresses, as your core fatigues so will your position leading to hips and legs sinking. As with biking,running,walking,etc. when you slouch or posture gets out of wack things get difficult real fast. I disagree with using a pull bouy, while it may keep your hips up and strengthen your pull, it does nothing to help your balance and leads to over or under rotation, its not designed for that, toss it! Strengthen your kick ,swim more, work on core and you ride with your hips on top of the water for longer periods.


Definitely disagree ith your "toss the pull buoy" assessment .

From direct experience, it was the BIGGEST help in adjusting my rotation correctly, balancing correctly, and developing a proper balanced upper body stroke. I can't imagine a coach even being able to verbally point out the numerous things it fixed for me, and the best part is that all I did was focus on swimming with the buoy while minimizing my kick and stabilizing my lower body for minimal movement. That's it. No extra drills, no complicated coach analysis, or anything else needed. If you have balance and rotation problems, they become painfully obvious when you do this with a buoy; itwill bring up flaws that you never even realized you had.

Over-rotation is a common one that gets fixed quick with the buoy - if you're over-rotating, you'll feel the buoy lurching between your legs - it should feel relatively stationary. I found that I had to swim "flat as a board" to get it right. (I later had my form checked by a OWS champion swim coach who said my rotation was perfect and who even called me a "natural swimmer!" when it was really all from pull buoy work - and I have a video of my pre-buoy technique to prove it.)

I did freestyle drills seriously up the wa-zoo for months prior to using the pull buoy - pretty much every one in the book, and not one of them yielded the technique benefit of pull buoy swimming.

I also found that weaning yourself off the buoy is EASY if you're swimming with minimal kick with the buoy. It took me 3-4 entire weeks of feeling like I was re-learning to swim all over again with the buoy, but once I felt comfortable with the buoy, the transition to buoy-less swimming was nearly instantaneous, and I had no dropoff in speed.

Best part is that the buoy also translates DIRECTLY to wetsuit swimming - you'll know intuitively after training with the buoy how to take advantage of the added buoyancy in your legs and hips.

and when you discover that it keeps you from getting faster , maybe you will toss itWink

Sorry if you are not a performance member, this is one of the best videos I have seen on balance and rotation and how to drill correctly to improve.



Edited by nevergivin 2009-09-13 12:40 AM
2009-09-13 1:33 PM
in reply to: #2399917

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Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)
I actually studied Total Immersion in great detail, book & DVD.

I just watched that video. It's good, but it doesn't quite agree with what he prescribes in his book.

For example - in the book, he says rotate with your body to get air, not the neck,and that your belly button should be pointing to the wall. For most beginners that will mean a HUGE over-rotation (and they already invariably over-rotate for air.) In the very video link pointed in the post above, there is no such belly-button pointing - he swims virtually flat, with just the minimal rotation required for a stroke.

There are bunch of these contradictions in the TI book that don't jive at all with what a good swimmer (including the very ones in his own videos) does. I still think the book overall is valuable for beginners, but not so for those seeking to really get fast. 


2009-09-13 6:51 PM
in reply to: #2399917

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Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)
I've been out of town this weekend it has been my first opportunty to check everyone's responses.  I appreciate everyone's input.

When I say more bouyant, I mean that my legs are sinking.  Even when I swim with a pull bouy, my legs still sink a little.  I spoke with my brother--who was a college swimmer--this weekend.  He is not a coach but he gave me a few suggestions.  First, he said that i am going to sink more than the average guy because of my build.  I am 6'2", 200 pounds, and have very little body fat.  He hasn't seen me swim since we were doing cannonballs in the backyard pool as kids so he hasn't seen my form.  He suspects that the crux of my problem is probably body positioning--which is what pretty much what everyone here says.  He recommended that I pull my stomach in and up to straighten out and lengthen my body because I am probably slouching when I get tired.  He said that I probably need to strengthen my core to maintain this form for any period of time. 

Learning to swim properly has been the most difficult thing for me to pick up athletically.  I have always been a natural athlete and have never struggled to learn a new skill like have with swimming.  I've been swimming since the beginning of the year and thought that if I just swam long enough that it would eventually just click.  Boy was i wrong.  However, now that I have some coaching, I still am not getting it.  I am just so frustrated because I have worked so hard at this.  I'm gonna hit the pool in the morning and see if all this advice doesn't help.  Hopefully I will have something good to report tomorrow evening.  Thanks again everyone.
2009-09-14 5:59 PM
in reply to: #2399917

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Subject: RE: swimming bouyancy (without wetsuit)

I swam today and tried to concentrate on the proper body positioning my brother discussed.  I have no idea if I was doing things right or not.  It is so hard to tell.

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