What say you?

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2009-09-13 11:54 PM

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Subject: What say you?
Four years ago this month my younger brother and I did our first triathlon and have been training and racing together ever since. He is five years younger than I am, which really isn't that much, but I do feel that he is maybe more genetically suited for triathlons being a little taller and leaner. We swim fairly equally, bike equally, but he is a much faster runner than I am. Because of this disparity in the run I had never held any hopes of beating my brother......until this year. We have raced four times this year, and somehow have beat him three out of the four. The last two races, our first Half and an olympic I rented some race wheels that my brother does not have anything like. Though we both ride very equal carbon framed bikes it may be that these wheels gave me a significant advantage on the bike. As we were cleaning up and preparing to go home from our race yesterday he said to me, that I had "purchased" my last two victories.

So.....my question is, did I purchase my wins over him, or do you think he is just whinning that his older brother is now beating him? What say you?

2009-09-14 2:52 AM
in reply to: #2404325

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Subject: RE: What say you?
All's fair in love and war. With that said id make a special 2nd place medal for him.
2009-09-14 3:57 AM
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Subject: RE: What say you?
Ask him how much he thinks the wheels saved you over the ride... seriously, going from a regular 32-spoke box rim to a pair of Zipp 808s saves just over 60seconds as an average of 26MPH... most of us can't average that speed, so the time benefit is less.

Did you beat him by less than a minute? If so, then maybe (but a BIG maybe), did your investment help you out... but he's free to rent wheels as well right?
2009-09-14 5:22 AM
in reply to: #2404388

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Subject: RE: What say you?
audiojan - 2009-09-14 3:57 AM Ask him how much he thinks the wheels saved you over the ride... seriously, going from a regular 32-spoke box rim to a pair of Zipp 808s saves just over 60seconds as an average of 26MPH... most of us can't average that speed, so the time benefit is less. 


I would argue that the time benefit would be more at a slower speed simply by virtue of being on the course longer. Whether or not it was the reason the OP beat his brother, I can't tell. How much did you beat him by?
2009-09-14 5:39 AM
in reply to: #2404325

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Subject: RE: What say you?
I think that both of you may possibly be spending too much time worrying about beating each other. 
2009-09-14 6:39 AM
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Subject: RE: What say you?
D@MN right you "purchased" it. With hard work, sweat, persisteance, perseverity, conditioning, training, and strategy.
Each and one of these available to him, it was his choice not to take advantage of these. Relish your victory.

Some one on here has a sig line something like this: While you are resting some where some one else is training, on race day he will beat you.

2009-09-14 7:37 AM
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Subject: RE: What say you?
the bear - 2009-09-14 6:22 AM

audiojan - 2009-09-14 3:57 AM Ask him how much he thinks the wheels saved you over the ride... seriously, going from a regular 32-spoke box rim to a pair of Zipp 808s saves just over 60seconds as an average of 26MPH... most of us can't average that speed, so the time benefit is less. 


I would argue that the time benefit would be more at a slower speed simply by virtue of being on the course longer. Whether or not it was the reason the OP beat his brother, I can't tell. How much did you beat him by?


Bear, as usual, you are correct. If you look at aerodynamic drag, the faster rider will save more, but this was about time and since the slower rider will spend more total time on the bike, the total saving as a percentage of time will be greater. I stand corrected.

Still, let's assume 60sec. savings... just to keep the discussion on track.

Edited by audiojan 2009-09-14 7:38 AM
2009-09-14 7:49 AM
in reply to: #2404325

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Subject: RE: What say you?
Sounds like your brother is looking for an excuse.

Fancy race wheels will make you a little faster, but not more than 60-90 sec, and the 90sec estimate is for something like a 1080/Sub9 combo and might be a little generous.

I guess you could make the argument that you "bought" the win if you won by less than 60 seconds, but otherwise your brother needs to HTFU, or save up enough money for some race wheels.
2009-09-14 7:49 AM
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Subject: RE: What say you?
Don't you have your splits from the races? Were the results consistent with your previous races? I would think that would be your answer as to whether or not the race wheels changed the game.
2009-09-14 9:12 AM
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Subject: RE: What say you?
Next race, lend him your wheels and still beat him.  That will settle it.
2009-09-14 9:16 AM
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Subject: RE: What say you?
Sounds like sour grapes to me.

2009-09-14 9:17 AM
in reply to: #2404735

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Subject: RE: What say you?
Just tell him that with 3 out 4 better results that you kicked his azz regardless of what you were riding with and that you don't even need the wheels to do it!  In fact, you could even beat him on a mountain bike with slicks.

That will get his competitive juices flowing and he'll be motivated to train more!

There are two brothers that race IM's that have finished within minutes of each other a few different times.  And they were actually racing to beat the other, not pacing and going together.  Now THAT is brotherly competition!!
2009-09-14 9:30 AM
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Subject: RE: What say you?
Paul32Crosh - 2009-09-13 10:54 PM
So.....my question is, did I purchase my wins over him, ...


Absolutely not. I have Zipp 1080s and I'm still not convinced they are any faster than my Bontrager XXX lite's. I know the 1080s are slower on hills w/wind because I can't ride as aggressively on the descents. For that reason, I chose not to run my front 1080 in my last HIM and will probably never use it again except on a super-flat sprint/oly with no wind.
2009-09-14 2:39 PM
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Subject: RE: What say you?

Does he have a problem that his purchased carbon bike is lighter/faster than the non-carbon bikes of others in the race?

2009-09-14 3:35 PM
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Subject: RE: What say you?

OK...so given combinations of swim, bike, run fitness and swim, bike, and run gear, how much time would you spot him?  I did this when I recruited my brother (who, in HS, was a much better athlete than I was).  In 2006, he and I agreed to do a race together.  It was my third sprint (second season) and his second sprint (first season).  I was training for a HIM, but he'd been cycling for almost 20 years.  I think I spotted him 10 minutes.  In 2007, he and I did the same OLY.  He'd been training much more consistently than I was and knew that we'd be competitive, so there was no "spotting" and I ran the whole 10K like I was being chased (which I was). 

 

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