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2009-09-17 7:44 AM

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Elite
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Subject: puppy help

Need some advice here.  OUr 11 week old Aussie Shepherd puppy, while smart and very quick to learn tricks, is a bit of a monster!! 

We are still in the midst of crate training.  Right now during the day she's out in the am, we leave at 7:30, dog walker comes at 10, my BF goes home at 12, then DW comes back at 2, and BF is back home at 6.  I have evening duty. During the night, we're up 3 x to let her out.  We let her out immediately post eating/drinking (water is only out at eating time).  Lately we're running into her peeing before we can get her out, even if its only been 2 hours.  This is usually when she's playing.  She *should* be able to hold it for 3 hours, right? She doesn't go in her crate.

The other issue is the "toddling" and mouthing. The dog wants to be a biped, I swear. Paws up on everything and walking around on hind legs.  Not really an issue, but we'd like to discourage that!  And then the mouthing. She has about 10 toys, which we try to keep her busy with and play with her, but she's of course more interested in shoes, my skirts, my purse, my papers I'm grading...(sorry kid, my dog ate YOUR homework).

My only puppy experience was with my own dog, however I got him at 5 months, so he was beyond this state.  We can't take her in just yet for training, have to wait till all the vaccinations are done.  Is this a temporary stage?



2009-09-17 8:08 AM
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2009-09-17 8:17 AM
in reply to: #2411130

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Elizabethtown, KY
Subject: RE: puppy help

turtlegirl - 2009-09-17 8:44 AM

Need some advice here.  OUr 11 week old Aussie Shepherd puppy, while smart and very quick to learn tricks, is a bit of a monster!! 

We are still in the midst of crate training.  Right now during the day she's out in the am, we leave at 7:30, dog walker comes at 10, my BF goes home at 12, then DW comes back at 2, and BF is back home at 6.  I have evening duty. During the night, we're up 3 x to let her out.  We let her out immediately post eating/drinking (water is only out at eating time).  Lately we're running into her peeing before we can get her out, even if its only been 2 hours.  This is usually when she's playing.  She *should* be able to hold it for 3 hours, right? She doesn't go in her crate.

The other issue is the "toddling" and mouthing. The dog wants to be a biped, I swear. Paws up on everything and walking around on hind legs.  Not really an issue, but we'd like to discourage that!  And then the mouthing. She has about 10 toys, which we try to keep her busy with and play with her, but she's of course more interested in shoes, my skirts, my purse, my papers I'm grading...(sorry kid, my dog ate YOUR homework).

My only puppy experience was with my own dog, however I got him at 5 months, so he was beyond this state.  We can't take her in just yet for training, have to wait till all the vaccinations are done.  Is this a temporary stage?

We have an Aussie, Sam, who's a bit over a year old.  They're wonderful dogs, but like other herding breeds they have a powerful drive combined with their high level of intelligence.  Not always a good combination, particularly in situations where they're left alone for long periods of time.

IMO - she should be crated WHENEVER left alone, at least at this age.  Even at a year, and completely potty-trained, Sam will find something to chew up if we leave him out.  We finally just accepted the fact that the crate is a place of comfort and security to him.  Make sure you're feeding her in the crate and not using it as a form of punishment.

For potty-training:

1. There is no time expectation at 11 weeks.  If you aren't able to ACTIVELY monitor her when she's out of the crate she should be in it.  When she's playing, EVERY time she pauses and even thinks about sniffing the ground, take her out.

2. NEVER punish her for going in the house.

3. You cannot take her out TOO often.

 

Regarding the jumping up.  Yes, that will go away with age AND training, but she is a herding breed.  We still see times when Sam chases the kids around and will jump and "play-bite" at their hind quarters.  Kind of funny. 

When she's a bit older, make sure you don't allow her to jump up when you FIRST see her (waking up, coming home, etc).  Make her sit first.

Training is an absolutely critical investment for any breed, but particularly an Aussie.  She'll be a star, and you'll train her to "leave it" when she wants to mouth things (among other useful skills).

Good luck and have fun!

(sorry for the novel)

2009-09-17 8:31 AM
in reply to: #2411130

Expert
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Columbia, MD
Subject: RE: puppy help

This is the little troublemaker she's talking about:

I puppysat on Saturday and she is a handful, but look how cute. 

2009-09-17 8:31 AM
in reply to: #2411130

Elite
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Subject: RE: puppy help

Thanks so much!!!  I just needed some reassurance. We adore her, and did know what we were getting into with the breed (I regularly care for my friend's Aussie, but I've known her from ages 5-9, and I have a border collie cross, but he lives with my parents currently.  He's 11, and not yet a fan of puppy ).

She is a darling, has already learned sit, stay, is learning lay down. Very impressed so far!  Right now she has discovered her gross motor skills, and is bolting everywhere! Thank god the fence guys are coming today!  The goal is to eventually have an electric doggy door (the kind with a "key" that is on their collar so she can come and go when she pleases).

We do keep her crated all the time we aren't there, and also at night, and have been feeding her in it. yay! doing somethings right...just was getting worried that the accident tally was more than we expected!  Any more tips, I appreciate it!  Especially if you have any ideas of how to get a grumpy older dog to bond with a puppy....my dog is a sweetheart with people, but he doesn't really "get" playing with other dogs, especially the puppy.

 

2009-09-17 9:01 AM
in reply to: #2411227

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Subject: RE: puppy help

A couple more things:

A grumpy old dog is wonderful training for your puppy. Allow them to interact freely, and let the older dog "correct" the puppy however he pleases (unless REAL violence appears).  Along with a getting her (after the shots) into some kind of "puppy play group", this helps teach her the cues dogs use to play, admonish, show fear, pain, etc.

Introduce the puppy to as many new people and new environments as possible - parks, parades, dog stores, outdoor festivals, etc.   Encourage people (and kids especially) to come up and pet her.  It's less about training your dog good manners and more about teaching them not to fear other "packs".  Helps prevent aggression/over-protection issues later in life. 

If only those dogs that chase me on the bike would have done these things . . .



2009-09-17 9:30 AM
in reply to: #2411130

Master
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Subject: RE: puppy help
My Aussie is now about 10-1/2 months, I got her at 8-weeks so I remember well the baby days.  I think I had it easy with mine - she took to the crate from the 1st night I had her and still loves it, it's her place.  And after maybe two days knew that she should go to the bathroom outside, the challenge was for me to make sure I got her out there often enough.  I think as far as potty training the key is to let her out much more than you think you need to.  She ate, let her out, she just woke up, let her out, you guys just played, let her out.  It's been an hour, let her out.  You get the picture.  I remember a few times thinking, oh maybe she can hold it a little longer now and being proven wrong.  One suggestion if yo uaren't doing it already - pull her water bowl at around 6pm.  As she starts being able to make it thru the night start pulling it a little later.  If she has an accident, go back to the earlier time.

As far as the chewing I almost never (actually I think never) reprimanded her for chewing on something she shouldn't.  Just watch her like a hawk and when she starts chewing on a shoe or someones homework rush over and give her something you DO want her to chew on instead and when she starts shewing on that give her lots of praise.  Some things will still get chewed up (mine decided the cabinet, kitchen rug and molding near the door were ok) but now I feel good about giving her access to most of the house.  You can also try spraying bitter apple on things you don't want her to chew on although that didn't deter mine, I use hot sauce instead.

My other advice is to socialize, socialize socialize.  Aussie can be more reserved than other breeds so it's even more important for them.  We went to puppy preschool at least a couple of times a week and tried to get to at least 1 or two new places/situations every week.  Just sitting outside the supermarket was great.  I still have the jumping up problem since mine loves EVERYONE, best way to control that I found is to tire her out or have a foot on the leash so she can't jump. 

Good luck, she's adorable!   

Edited by drewb8 2009-09-17 9:32 AM
2009-09-17 9:30 AM
in reply to: #2411328

Champion
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the colony texas
Subject: RE: puppy help
I really needed a puppy thread.... too many political threads lately.  
2009-09-17 9:31 AM
in reply to: #2411130

Pro
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Without house
Subject: RE: puppy help
I have nothing to add by way of help, but want to say that your puppy is so incredibly adorable!!  ♥!!

Good grief, I want a dog...
2009-09-17 9:55 AM
in reply to: #2411130

Master
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Ann Arbor, MI
Subject: RE: puppy help
AUSSIES!! What an adorable little girl! You are in trouble with that face Check my album- our girls could be sisters

OK, at 11 weeks old, I'm going to give you the advice my mom gave me over and over again- RELAX, she's a puppy!! Don't have all these high expectations from the get go. And, it will be really hard for a while- she's a puppy!!

First of all, pups can pee almost every hour. Swear to god. Cody (my aussie) would whine at the door every single hour, and every single time I ignored her, she peed on the carpet. I learned that lesson quickly. Every hour- outside. Also- do not bring her back in immediately. Stay outside and play for a bit after she pees, so that she doesn't NOT go, in an effort to be outside longer.

Teething/mouthing- you do realize you bought a herding dog, right? Cody was a monster with her teeth. She didn't chew-destroy anything except 1 shoe and 1 hat, but she chewed the crap out of my arms, hands, sweatshirts- everything- homework, pens, papers, anything that I had- she HAD to chew/bite, even if her bone was right next to her.  She was a shark. And it lasted till she was almost a year. Nothing worked. Giving her other toys, praising her, correcting her by pinching her tongue- nothing. Believe me, we were very fed up, and tried it all. Then, finally, she just stopped biting so much. Now, she is so very careful with her mouth, and we play fun little 'mouthy' games, where I stick my hands in her mouth, she pretends to bite, but never makes contact. She is very accurate with her mouth, and now that she knows right from wrong, I trust her  completely. When I tell her the game is over, she turns off, and gives me tons of kisses.

As far as jumping, that is something you can work on now. Do not give her attention if she jumps up. Don't pet her, don't touch her, don't say anything nice, just ignore her. As soon as all 4 paws are on the floor, then praise her. Make her sit before you give her any kind of attention. Make her sit before she gets fed. Make her sit before you give her a treat, or even a pet. That will also help with dominance. By her touching you and putting her paws on you, if she is a bit more of an 'alpha' dog, she might be signalling that she is trying to be the alpha and pushing your buttons, so getting her to sit, and sit often, is key.

I could give you advice forever. Just ask Drew   My aussie is now 2 years old, and although I'm biased, I truly believe she is the best dog in the world. She was a TERROR until 1 year old. But both my fiance and I worked very, very hard with her on everything, and now I couldn't ask for a better dog. Greta, (drew's dog), is a very close second But he had it easy- she was an angel from the start
2009-09-17 9:59 AM
in reply to: #2411130

Master
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Ann Arbor, MI
Subject: RE: puppy help
Oh, and crates. You have to practice getting her in the crate when it is not time to leave. While you are still home, put treats in her crate, and a good chew toy. When she goes in, praise her like crazy, and use the 'crate' word- we said 'GOOD go to bed'. Don't just have the crate be solely associated with you leaving her, or else she won't like it. That's a tough one, though, but after about a month, Cody would 'go to bed' when we told her to. She never loved her crate like some dogs do, because she never wanted to be more than 1 inch away from me at all times. She is still that way, she is my shadow, or 'velcro' dog. I love it, but as a puppy, I probably should've enforced more personal space. hehe.


2009-09-17 10:12 AM
in reply to: #2411130

Master
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Denver
Subject: RE: puppy help
Heh, I was shocked I got to this thread before Alaina

But I can't believe I forgot that advice about jumping up, that is spot on.  The worst thing you can do to a puppy is ignore it.  There's good attention, a little lower is bad attention and then way at the bottom is no attention.  If they are jumping up on you, don't acknowlege it, just fold your arms and turn away, once her paws are on the ground give her attention again.  Theres a saying, 'you raise what you praise'.  The hard part is with strangers out on the street.  People don't mind an adorable puppy jumping up on them and some even encourage it, but when she's bigger it's not so cute and can scare some people who don't like dogs.  Its hard to tell strangers not to though, I wish I'd enforced that more and said something like "I'm trying to train her not to do that, can you help me" or something like that more often.  And yeah, like Alaina mentioned, it's never too early to let her know that you're the alpha.  Once she knows 'sit' she should have to earn everything - dinner, play, a scratch behind the ear...  Mine is middle of the road - she'll assert herself if you don't but doesn't test you every day like Cody will.  In short, listen to Alaina

Edited by drewb8 2009-09-17 10:15 AM
2009-09-17 10:19 AM
in reply to: #2411130

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Subject: RE: puppy help
have you practiced any sort of clicker training? should look it up as it is a great way for positive reinforcement. With potty training it works to teach them that, when they go potty outside they get a treat. When they go inside, they dont. Naturally they start to go outside and hold it. 11 weeks is definately a bit young for them to understand it all but generally dogs do not potty where they sleep/eat.

As for the mouthing, even with toys, puppy is at that stage. She does not have hands but as others have said, Aussies are very very smart and curious. As such, and being a puppy, she will explore anything and everything with her mouth, whether you want her to or not. She will eventually grow out of it being destructive and depending on her she may grow out of it entirely but training will come in play here again in a big way. It sounds like you are doing everything right, setting a schedule, keeping it, playing with her, etc. eventually she will get used to the schedule and be able to handle it better and better.

She is cute!
2009-09-17 10:28 AM
in reply to: #2411436

Elite
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Subject: RE: puppy help

Gaarryy - 2009-09-17 9:30 AM I really needed a puppy thread.... too many political threads lately.  

 

glad I could help!   btw, for any of you Red Sox fans, her name is Fenway. I am not a sox fan, but no one really wants to admit to being a Pirates fan, so we stuck with Red Sox (BF is diehard).  I was voting for Boggs or Yaz though as a name. This was the compromise.

2009-09-17 10:32 AM
in reply to: #2411603

Master
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Denver
Subject: RE: puppy help
turtlegirl - 2009-09-17 9:28 AM

glad I could help!   btw, for any of you Red Sox fans, her name is Fenway. I am not a sox fan, but no one really wants to admit to being a Pirates fan, so we stuck with Red Sox (BF is diehard).  I was voting for Boggs or Yaz though as a name. This was the compromise.



Ack.  Actually I meant do the opposite of what I said. Sorry for misleading you  

Edited by drewb8 2009-09-17 10:34 AM
2009-09-17 10:34 AM
in reply to: #2411603

Elite
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Subject: RE: puppy help

Oh , and we are doing the clicker training. She already has got the idea that clicker is good.   We do need to make the crate more of a home....is it wrong to put her in at night?  That is the one thing we cannot figure out. She's not crying anymore, but the first two weeks! wow, she would cry.  Sometimes we'd let her sleep on the towel outside the crate, but now she is braver and crawlign everywhere, with the teeth following.

Who would have known there were so many triathletes with Aussies?  Must be a type A connection.

How about you all post your babies? Aussie and otherwise. I adore labs...I have two at my barn that are my constant companions.  Thats ANOTHER thing, I have to get her horse acclimated, but I'm TERRIFIED of that!



2009-09-17 10:42 AM
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2009-09-17 10:48 AM
in reply to: #2411130

Master
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Ann Arbor, MI
Subject: RE: puppy help
I like this one of her- taken about a month ago. She LOVES kayaking!

Photobucket

Crate every night, for sure. It makes it more 'her' space.

Drew is a diehard yankees fan, he may never speak to you again

Edited by jazz82482 2009-09-17 10:48 AM
2009-09-17 10:51 AM
in reply to: #2411617

Master
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Denver
Subject: RE: puppy help
turtlegirl - 2009-09-17 9:34 AM

Oh , and we are doing the clicker training. She already has got the idea that clicker is good.   We do need to make the crate more of a home....is it wrong to put her in at night?  That is the one thing we cannot figure out. She's not crying anymore, but the first two weeks! wow, she would cry.  Sometimes we'd let her sleep on the towel outside the crate, but now she is braver and crawlign everywhere, with the teeth following.

Who would have known there were so many triathletes with Aussies?  Must be a type A connection.

How about you all post your babies? Aussie and otherwise. I adore labs...I have two at my barn that are my constant companions.  Thats ANOTHER thing, I have to get her horse acclimated, but I'm TERRIFIED of that!


I crated mine from the first night.  She took to it right away though, I think I had maybe an hours worth of crying total.  I'd leave a toy, something to chew on and a blanket for her to sleep on although before long she would push the blanket aside.  When I had to leave her during the day I would fence off the kitchen adn keep her there (her crate is in the kitche as well) and once she started pulling the blanket out and tearing it up I just removed it altogether.  A couple of months ago when I felt comfortable with her not chewing things I started allowing her to sleep in my room so now she sleeps on the floor next to my bed.  But if she's being annoying at night (at first she was very attentive to any sounds) or if I just want her out from under my feet for a few minutes into the crate she goes and I think crating her at night when she was little was crucial to making her ok with it.  It's her place and she still likes to spend time in it on her own. 
2009-09-17 11:05 AM
in reply to: #2411130

Master
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Denver
Subject: RE: puppy help
PS - I think Boggs would've been a great name.
2009-09-17 11:52 AM
in reply to: #2411130

Elite
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Subject: RE: puppy help

wouldn't it have been?? Here Boggs!!  It just rolls off the tongue.

 

btw, some really cute team stuff out there. I can't wait to buy  her a steeler collar. That is what Casey is adorned in...and of course, a swim bark run collar.

When are you able to start actively running with your dog? My friends told me to wait at least until a year, but gee, she was so bored walking today.



2009-09-17 12:03 PM
in reply to: #2411862

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Subject: RE: puppy help

turtlegirl - 2009-09-17 12:52 PM

When are you able to start actively running with your dog? My friends told me to wait at least until a year, but gee, she was so bored walking today.

At least a year, and then only short distances, preferably on soft surfaces like trails.  Dogs need to slowly build up endurance just as people do, and running can be bad on their joints if done too much too early.

Keep in mind, a dog has a hard time saying no, so when you do start running with her, remember that she has to drink at least as frequently as you do, if not more so.

Those warnings said, running with your pup is a wonderful experience, especially when she's figured out not to get under your feet.

2009-09-17 12:37 PM
in reply to: #2411130

Expert
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Columbia, MD
Subject: RE: puppy help

Did someone say post more photos????

I have a lot of video too, but it's stuck on my iPhone for now.  I'll try to post some tonight.

2009-09-17 12:41 PM
in reply to: #2411130

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: puppy help
definately wait at least a year, maybe 18 months before starting running with her. Stay on soft dirt trails to start with. Even if she looks full grown she will probably still have growth occurring and to much running could cause problems down the line for her. If she is bored you could start on Agility training or puppy park socialization? 

No Aussie here but I do have my retriever mix and my lab mix. My lab is crate trained and it took a bit with her as we got her when she was 4.5 years old. we started feeding her in her crate right away, putting her favorite blanket in there, and just sitting in front of it, door open, with her inside feeding her treats. Now she sleeps in it on her own (she makes her blanket into a little nest) with the door open and does not come out at night unless she has to wake me up to let her out to go to the bathroom. It really works well!
2009-09-17 1:15 PM
in reply to: #2411130

Master
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Ann Arbor, MI
Subject: RE: puppy help
Talk to your vet about running with her. My vet said it was OK to play-run with Cody on off-road trails and in the park, as long as it wasn't structured running, but I'm not sure how young she was- maybe 4mos?  The reason people hold off on running with dogs is to make sure their growth plates finish growing. Since Aussies are smaller, they don't often take as long to grow as some other breeds, where the typical '1 year to 2' rule applies (labs, goldens, german shephards, weimerainers, etc). I am by no means saying go run now- but Cody and I would practice running as a pup, to help her control her herding instinct and get all of that extra energy out. That way, she could understand that running next to me didn't involve trying to bite my legs and ankles and to pin me in a corner

A point my vet made is that your pup is going to run like crazy, regardless of if they are with you or in the yard- they are puppies and they run a lot. Just don't force her on long runs on a leash on the sidewalk or road. Go to a park and run around a baseball field- it's a blast! Go to a trail and jog a bit, then walk, for about a mile- nothing crazy. Don't prevent your dog from being a puppy

LOVE the pics! She really has that same look Cody had- the, 'I am plotting your destruction with my beautiful face' kind of look. Hehehe- goodluck!!!!
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