General Discussion Triathlon Talk » 700c vs 650c wheels Rss Feed  
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2009-09-17 1:24 PM

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Subject: 700c vs 650c wheels
Can somebody please tell me the difference in performance between 700c and 650c wheels.
Thanks


2009-09-17 1:27 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
Most people I know (me included) have 650 wheels because there are more design options for smaller frame sizes with 650 wheels. If you are interested, there is a YouTube video with Georgina Terry that explains how they design frames, and how you reach a point where you can't make it any smaller unless you drop the wheel size.

I guess there are people who have them for other reasons, but I don't know much about that side of it.

Each pedal stroke gets you less distance, so they are usually paired with larger gears to make up for it.

I would also guess I have a bit of an aero advantage on the 650s because I'm closer to the ground.

But for me, the decision was all about bike fit. I have a 48cm frame and also needed a short reach. This is just not very possible with 700 wheels.
2009-09-17 1:27 PM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
650 wheels improve my performance by allowing my stumpy little legs to actually reach the pedals.  Oh wait...

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2009-09-17 1:29 PM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
One more thing - they make it more of a b*tch to change a flat. The angle of the tire across the side of the circle is steeper, because the diameter is smaller, and it really sucks to get that last bit of the tire on. FYI.

Edited by ahohl 2009-09-17 1:32 PM
2009-09-17 1:30 PM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
ahohl - 2009-09-17 2:29 PM One more thing - they make it more of a b*tch to change a flat. The angle of the tire across the side of the circle is steeper, because the diameter is smaller, and it really sucks to get that last bit of the tire one. FYI.


i ride with a woman who rides 650s and she carries like 3 spare tubes because in a group of 8 of us, she's the only one on 650s and can never count on borrowing a tube from another rider!
2009-09-17 1:33 PM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
ahohl - 2009-09-17 1:29 PM One more thing - they make it more of a b*tch to change a flat. The angle of the tire across the side of the circle is steeper, because the diameter is smaller, and it really sucks to get that last bit of the tire one. FYI.


X2!! I have yet to successfully change a tire on my 650 wheels by myself. Even others who are pros at changing tires have quite the struggle with it. Sucks.

My LBS has to special order the 650 extended valve tubes for me as they usually only stock 1 or 2 at a time.


2009-09-17 1:39 PM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
stateu - 2009-09-17 2:24 PM Can somebody please tell me the difference in performance between 700c and 650c wheels. Thanks


There is none ..........
2009-09-17 1:43 PM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
Daremo - 2009-09-17 1:39 PM

stateu - 2009-09-17 2:24 PM Can somebody please tell me the difference in performance between 700c and 650c wheels. Thanks


There is none ..........


So, size is the main difference and shouldn't affect performance?
2009-09-17 1:50 PM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
Correct.

650 vs. 700 is one of those age old arguments and going back to the mid - 90's for a while 650 was king.  But as technology, and more importantly reality, progressed manufacturers and athletes went back to 700 unless it caused a frame sizing issue.

My wife is 5'-0".  There might only be a handful of 700c bikes in existance that could fit her.  But her 650 equipped Giant works awesome and is the perfect fit for her.

The thought behind why 650 was better was because it allowed you to ride a little lower to the ground and push a bigger gear.  The reality is that it takes "X" power to push the bike/rider through the wind.  Dropping 1" in the wheels does little to reduce the frontal area of a rider in the overall scheme so there is no real reduction in power required to move that athlete.

Now a 650 front and 700 rear that allows you to get lower and flatter?  That may have some merit and value.
2009-09-17 2:21 PM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
Daremo - 2009-09-17 1:50 PM

Correct.

650 vs. 700 is one of those age old arguments and going back to the mid - 90's for a while 650 was king.  But as technology, and more importantly reality, progressed manufacturers and athletes went back to 700 unless it caused a frame sizing issue.

My wife is 5'-0".  There might only be a handful of 700c bikes in existance that could fit her.  But her 650 equipped Giant works awesome and is the perfect fit for her.

The thought behind why 650 was better was because it allowed you to ride a little lower to the ground and push a bigger gear.  The reality is that it takes "X" power to push the bike/rider through the wind.  Dropping 1" in the wheels does little to reduce the frontal area of a rider in the overall scheme so there is no real reduction in power required to move that athlete.

Now a 650 front and 700 rear that allows you to get lower and flatter?  That may have some merit and value.


Thanks. I am 5'8" and have seen several bikes on the internet that are 52cm w/650s and I am wondering if they would fit me.
2009-09-17 2:21 PM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels

stateu - 2009-09-17 1:43 PM
Daremo - 2009-09-17 1:39 PM
stateu - 2009-09-17 2:24 PM Can somebody please tell me the difference in performance between 700c and 650c wheels. Thanks


There is none ..........
So, size is the main difference and shouldn't affect performance?

Theoretically, the 650C, because it is slightly smaller is a little more aerodynamic. 
Theoretically, the 700C, because it is slightly larger has slightly lower rolling resistance. 

Which wins?  Hard to tell. 

The 650's are a little bit smaller so they can be relatively lighter weight (For the Vresdestein Fortezza, the 650C is 200g while the 700C is 225g) for better acceleration.  Mavic OpenPro rims are 390g and 435g respectively.  Assuming a 10g difference in tube weight 6 grams per spoke (144g for 24 spokes), the 650C wheel/tire will be about 224g lighter than an equivalent 700C wheel.  (Don't forget you have two wheels. )  A change of 500 grams of rotating weight may be significant for many cyclists (at least if you pay attention to the marketing literature for lighter weight wheels and tires). 

In short, don't be afraid of bikes with 650C wheels.  Tire selection is a limited, but you can get either cheap or high-end tires.  You can't borrow your buddy's 700C tube if you flat, so it's probably good to keep a couple spare tubes and maybe even a spare set of tires on hand. 



2009-09-17 2:50 PM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
Used 650c race wheels are cheaper on eBay

I have a 650c Zipp disc I got for $200 over last winter, plus a Tri spoke rear and several areo front wheels that I found a lot cheaper than their 700c versions.

As noted, you better be prepared on 650c wheels to take care of flats yourself.
2009-09-17 3:11 PM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels

I have 650c wheels on my winter bike (stock trek) and 700c wheels on my summer bike (custom built). I really wanted to go with 700c wheels because I do a lot of races where neutral wheel support is provided and they simply aren't equiped to give you a 700c wheel. I guess I'm lucky because both bikes fit me well.

Because I'm switching back and forth, I sometimes bring the wrong size tube with me though. In a pinch, you can use a 700c tube in a 650c wheel.



Edited by jeng 2009-09-17 3:12 PM
2009-09-17 4:36 PM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
Daremo - 2009-09-17 11:39 AM
stateu - 2009-09-17 2:24 PM Can somebody please tell me the difference in performance between 700c and 650c wheels. Thanks


There is none ..........


Thanks for confirming what I already thought/knew...

As a side note and not part of this thread, there are siginificant differences between 26" and 29" wheels when it comes to MTN biking and performance.

BTW, Cannondale played around years ago with a 700 rear and 650 front.  How annoying would THAT be to have to bring 650 AND 700 tubes every time you raced/trained.

Edited by Aikidoman 2009-09-17 4:38 PM
2009-09-17 5:01 PM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
stateu - 2009-09-16 2:43 PM So, size is the main difference and shouldn't affect performance?


That is my story, and I am sticking to it.
2009-09-17 8:54 PM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
hands down the best article I've ever read on this topic. A must read: http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Yet_more_wheel_size_debates_223.html


2009-09-17 9:02 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
my c'dale roadie has 700s and my cervelo tri bike has 650s, i'm 5'5''...i can't tell the difference bt the wheel sizes..
2009-09-18 8:10 AM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
. As noted, you better be prepared on 650c wheels to take care of flats yourself.


You should be prepared to take care of ANY flats yourself ;-)
2009-09-18 8:27 AM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
ironlib - 2009-09-17 9:54 PM hands down the best article I've ever read on this topic. A must read: http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Yet_more_wheel_size_debates_223.html... />
Wow, great article!
2009-09-18 4:12 PM
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Subject: RE: 700c vs 650c wheels
Thanks. I am 5'8" and have seen several bikes on the internet that are 52cm w/650s and I am wondering if they would fit me.


I'm also 5'8" and just bought a 51cm QR Tequilo with 650 wheels off of craigslist.  The fit seems great.

As for the wheel size, the other poster was right.  Back in the '90s, it was thought that 650s were more aerodynamic.  That's been debunked. 

The wheel size makes no difference on the bike fit.  Do you know about "stack" and "reach"?  That's what you should be looking for.  The bike size (e.g. 52) can vary dramatically by manufacturer.

And, yeah, since 650s have fallen into disfavor you can find some great deals with people dumping their used 650 race wheels.  On the down side, since they're much less common it'll be harder to find wheels, tubes, etc. at your local bike shop. 
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General Discussion Triathlon Talk » 700c vs 650c wheels Rss Feed