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2009-09-24 9:04 AM

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Subject: Why am I running slower?
Not the end of the world, but an interesting problem that I would like some opinions on-

I had been runnnig a 1:48 half marathon, and my pace on most of my sprint tris run portion was in the 7:20 to just under 8:00 pace - depending on heat/humid and hills. Not great, but not too bad.
Swim and bike parts always much better, so I generally do ok for a 46 yr old guy.

This past fall I started some longer distance runs, getting ready for a marathon. My long runs went from 10 miles to eventually a series of 20 mile runs. My long runs were at least 13 to 17 for much of the fall and early spring.

So here I am in 2009, my endurance is better, but I just don't seem to have the speed. A recent sprint tri had my run pace at almost 8:35 and a recent half marathon was about 1:53. My 10k time is also a few minutes slower than it had been on the same course.

To add emphasis, when I finished the sprint tri where I could go no faster than 8:30, I felt so good at the end of the race, I jogged back thru the run portion to warm down, but almost at the same race pace. I still had plenty of fuel in the tank.

So now I wonder if was possible to build endurance at the cost of speed? Or maybe I am just getting older and don't have that kick? : )

What do you think?


2009-09-24 9:43 AM
in reply to: #2423830

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Subject: RE: Why am I running slower?
JohnP_NY - 2009-09-24 8:04 AM
So now I wonder if was possible to build endurance at the cost of speed? Or maybe I am just getting older and don't have that kick? : )
What do you think?


I've never been a fan of LSD training. IMO, a person's body replicates the way it's trained to a large degree. (EG. train by running slow and you'll get very good at running slow.) The way I've always built endurance is by gradually increasing the time/distance that I can maintain a pace. If I'm trying to train for a certain distance, I'll hold on to my pace as long as I can and then finish the distance easier. Every time I do that distance I'll try to hold the pace a little longer.
2009-09-24 9:50 AM
in reply to: #2423830

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Expert
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Subject: RE: Why am I running slower?
I totally hear you!! I was in that boat, but I was able to hold on to a bit of my speed by doing intervals on the track as one of my workouts each week. That keeps my body "remembering" how to run fast as I'm cranking up my long run distance. I'll do MOSTLY 800s and 1600s: 5-8 800s with 90 seconds rest between, or 3-4 1600s with 90 seconds rest. Sometimes, I'll crack out some 400s when I'm REALLY looking for some speed: 8-12 400s with 75 seconds rest (the 400s sound easy, but that workout SUCKS!)

So try some intervals. Work those in each week along with your long runs. To me, it's been the best of both worlds. Good luck!! Get that speed back!!
2009-09-24 10:01 AM
in reply to: #2423830

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Runner
Subject: RE: Why am I running slower?

You ARE faster.  You just don't know how to push yourself anymore.  You need to move out of your comfort zone.  How you manage to do that is entirely up to you.

And just to note.  LSD does NOT mean Long Slow Distance.  It means Long Steady Distance.  That was the original idea.  Also, the original idea was to not run everything easy.

Run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard.

2009-09-24 10:07 AM
in reply to: #2423997

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Subject: RE: Why am I running slower?
Scout7 - 2009-09-24 11:01 AM

You ARE faster.  You just don't know how to push yourself anymore.  You need to move out of your comfort zone.  How you manage to do that is entirely up to you.

And just to note.  LSD does NOT mean Long Slow Distance.  It means Long Steady Distance.  That was the original idea.  Also, the original idea was to not run everything easy.

Run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard.



What he said ^^^.
2009-09-24 10:09 AM
in reply to: #2424017

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Subject: RE: Why am I running slower?
Daremo - 2009-09-24 10:07 AM
Scout7 - 2009-09-24 11:01 AM

You ARE faster.  You just don't know how to push yourself anymore.  You need to move out of your comfort zone.  How you manage to do that is entirely up to you.

And just to note.  LSD does NOT mean Long Slow Distance.  It means Long Steady Distance.  That was the original idea.  Also, the original idea was to not run everything easy.

Run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard.



What he said ^^^.
x 2 and btw, good to see you posting Scout!


2009-09-24 10:09 AM
in reply to: #2423830

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Subject: RE: Why am I running slower?
Hey, Scout7's back!
2009-09-24 10:21 AM
in reply to: #2423997

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Subject: RE: Why am I running slower?

Scout7 - 2009-09-24 9:01 AM

You ARE faster.  You just don't know how to push yourself anymore.  You need to move out of your comfort zone.  How you manage to do that is entirely up to you.

And just to note.  LSD does NOT mean Long Slow Distance.  It means Long Steady Distance.  That was the original idea.  Also, the original idea was to not run everything easy.

Run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard.

I would agree.  I think I have been guilty of doing the long SLOW distance since I've been in my 40s.  Mostly because I just could not keep from getting injured!  When I was younger I trained with alot more intensity and much faster.  I am really going to try to pick up the intensity with my running for next season and hope to remain free of any injuries. 

 

eta: Scout, glad to see you posting again.



Edited by rayd 2009-09-24 10:22 AM
2009-09-24 10:24 AM
in reply to: #2424023

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Subject: RE: Why am I running slower?
the bear - 2009-09-24 11:09 AM Hey, Scout7's back!


Is it still cool to yell out "Scout for Overlord!"?
2009-09-24 10:36 AM
in reply to: #2423830

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Subject: RE: Why am I running slower?
What's your cadence like? Lots of LSD training might have inadvertently caused your to reduce your cadence. Incorporate some workouts into your routine in which you focus on increasing your strides per minute.

My favorite is to use my Timex watch countdown timer. I set it to beep every minute. First minute is running at my regular pace. Second minute I count my strides, trying to get up to a higher number each time. Then I repeat, alternating steady run/cadence drill each minute. I like to do this drill in the second half of the run, which helps me to maintain speed as my legs get tired.
2009-09-24 10:38 AM
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Subject: RE: Why am I running slower?
I'm a big fan of running lots of miles at a slower pace. That being said, if all you ever do is run at a slower pace then it will limit your ability to run fast. People use various approaches for adding in some speed. Most use intervals, tempo, and/or fartleks. I don't, but I race very often. I have found that racing will make me run much harder than I can push myself in training by myself. Over the last couple years of training this way I've been getting progressively faster and at age 53 I am still setting new PRs.

Pick whatever form of speedwork that suits you and add it into your training. Keep up with the higher mileage and between the two you should end up being faster in a few months.


2009-09-24 10:40 AM
in reply to: #2424068

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Subject: RE: Why am I running slower?
mrbbrad - 2009-09-24 8:24 AM
the bear - 2009-09-24 11:09 AM Hey, Scout7's back!


Is it still cool to yell out "Scout for Overlord!"?


1. welcome back Scout
2.  OP, listen to him 
2009-09-24 12:58 PM
in reply to: #2423830

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Subject: RE: Why am I running slower?
Makes sense, I guess I have to re-train myself to tolerate the faster pace. That is, if going faster is that important.

Was interesting on a run this summer I was chugging along thinking, wow I am getting pooped. I looked at my HR monitor. 133 BPM! Used to be I was only starting to feel it at about 140.

I also like the races and cadence ideas. I do seem to gain after beating myself up on a good race.
2009-09-24 2:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Why am I running slower?

mrbbrad - 2009-09-24 10:24 AM
the bear - 2009-09-24 11:09 AM Hey, Scout7's back!


Is it still cool to yell out "Scout for Overlord!"?

Ummmm.... YEAH! 

2009-09-24 9:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Why am I running slower?
Great info in this thread.  I've been doing all LSD too and noticed getting slower.  Running 3 times per week currently.  1 day I'll use for pacework now. 

Thanks
2009-09-25 6:43 AM
in reply to: #2425487

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Runner
Subject: RE: Why am I running slower?

jeffw85 - 2009-09-24 10:12 PM Great info in this thread.  I've been doing all LSD too and noticed getting slower.  Running 3 times per week currently.  1 day I'll use for pacework now. 

Thanks

What is "pacework"?



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