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2009-10-04 11:30 AM

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Subject: minimalist running
what's the word on this? I've heard bits and pieces. I actually am considering it. I swear sometimes it's my "stability" shoes that are causing some of my residual achillies problems.  I have some saucony racing flats, would that be a good start?


2009-10-04 12:06 PM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
Seems to be a movement on several fronts. Read Born to Run by Christopher McDougall for a very good read and some discussion from his point of view, and that of the Tarahumara Indians of Mexico.
2009-10-04 12:09 PM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
I posted a thread looing for advice on mimimalist shoes a few weeks ago, you can see people's suggestions here.

I recently purchased a pair of racing flats, and am in the process of switching over to more minimalist running. I'm gradually increasing the amount I run in them, and hope to switch over completely at some point. I have to say, so far I absolutely LOVE my flats, but the longest run I've done in them yet is 4 miles. They feel so comfy on my feet! I really love the feeling of having less shoe. So far it seems that my feet & ankles feel better after runs in the flats than runs in more padded shoes. I'm a believer!!


Edited by jsnowash 2009-10-04 12:10 PM
2009-10-04 12:19 PM
in reply to: #2441549

Master
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
Are you wearing your superfeet in them. (I guess really, did you use superfeet before?)
2009-10-04 12:39 PM
in reply to: #2441561

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Subject: RE: minimalist running
I didn't use superfeet before, and don't now..... just running in the shoes the way they came off the shelf.
2009-10-04 6:45 PM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
I find it hard to build millage cause my feet are still adapting and it hurts to do more than 1 more mile or so every other week. Hopefully they adjust soon and I can add 1 mile a week. Have fun enjoy, besides the aches I have no more knee problems.


2009-10-04 7:21 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
I run in flats & am happy!
2009-10-04 7:24 PM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
I ran in stability shoes for a while, up until I developed shin splints and stress fractures in both legs...I now run in flats (nike lunaracers, zoots before them) and am pain/problem free and have been since I made the switch
2009-10-04 7:56 PM
in reply to: #2441520

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Master
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Subject: RE: minimalist running

I don’t get it what is minimalist running?  Did I miss something?  Is it run less?



2009-10-04 8:09 PM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
I swear by it. I wore more minimalist shoes back in my h.s. track and cross country days, then after a long time away from running, listened to the crap being spewed by uninformed shoe salesman when I got back into it a few years ago. Definite mistake, at least for me.

Might not be for everybody, but I'd encourage you to look into it. Just make sure that if you decide to go the minimalist route, ease into it, listen to your body, and don't try to push through any pain tweaks your feeling with the new shoes (if you do). Any change that major could potentially cause injury if you dive into it too fast.
2009-10-04 8:26 PM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
Does this include the vibram 5 fingers shoes as well?


2009-10-04 9:47 PM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
tasr - 2009-10-04 8:56 PM

I don’t get it what is minimalist running?  Did I miss something?  Is it run less?



I didn't understand the thread title either.  Minimal shoe is what the OP is asking about.
2009-10-05 5:07 AM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
eliwashere - 2009-10-04 9:26 PM Does this include the vibram 5 fingers shoes as well?


Yes, but if you are running everything in 5 fingers I would say you are more a part of the barefoot movement. They are both very closely related.
I have 5 fingers, but just use them to walk the dogs etc and I have gone to running in lightweight trainers and flats so I can slowly buildup and get to run in the 5 fingers on some runs.
2009-10-05 9:58 AM
in reply to: #2441520

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Subject: RE: minimalist running
What are the benefits of minimalist running?

I have a pair of five fingers but only ever considered them water shoes for when i take the dogs to the lake or am wade fishing.
2009-10-05 11:28 AM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
I have been running in my VFFs (Vibram Five Fingers) 4-5 x's a week for almost a month now. I have always had weak ankles, shin splints, and had problems with heel striking - not anymore!

My ankles are just getting stronger and stronger, and I run with NO pain for the first time ever. The hardest part of going minimalist or nealry barefoot is the aching in your calves. Your calves will be sore for a week. I run completely barefoot on the highschool track by my house and use my VFFs for off and on road running. The longest I have run is 6 miles and I have to tell you it was great!
2009-10-05 11:33 AM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
Curious, if you train barefoot, do you also compete barefoot?


2009-10-05 11:39 AM
in reply to: #2441520

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Subject: RE: minimalist running
Minimalist running is when you want to get the advantages of barefoot running without actually being barefoot or if you want to ease into barefooting.  I started running a few months ago and liked the idea behind barefoot running, but where I run is kind of scary looking for barefoot running - small scattered gravel over hard packed dirt and chip sealed roads.  So I use a pair of old discount store watershoes (with the liner torn out no less) and am very happy.  I did go and get a shoe fitting and shoes from a local running store when I started running and wore them alternating with the watershoes at first, but now I just run in the watershoes just because I find them to be more comfortable. 

Like others have said if you are coming from highly engineered shoes, motion control, stability, raised heels, etc, you may have to ease into it.  Run only short easy distances in the flats at first and switch back to your regular shoes for the rest of your training and gradually work up the distance and pace that you do in the flats.  Listen to your legs.

My husband runs much more than I do and runs a few of his miles in Vibram fivefingers.  He is more comfortable running longer distances and most of the time in his regular trainers (neutral Asics Gel 2130s).

2009-10-05 11:48 AM
in reply to: #2441544

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Subject: RE: minimalist running
the bear - 2009-10-04 12:06 PM Seems to be a movement on several fronts. Read Born to Run by Christopher McDougall for a very good read and some discussion from his point of view, and that of the Tarahumara Indians of Mexico.
 I am just waiting for Nike to come out with the tarahumaran huarache so I can run like my fellow mexicans

OP - as the bear said their seems to be a greater interest in this theories and also a belief that current shoe models cause more trouble with all their support and motion control stuff including running shoe companies. I've been running with Nike frees through the year mixing it up with light trainers or racing flats and so far so good. I've been building up slowly and making sure I dont do any crazy change too fast. What's interesting is that the days I run with the frees the next run it 'feels' like my legs are sturdier.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it! however if you feel your running shoes are giving you trouble I would start with a light cushioning shoe without any sort of support and rather flexible (that you can easily bend it in half) and start doing some short/easy runs on those and little by little get away from your current shoes. if that helps you can then move to lighter shoes.

Please keep in mind that weight, height and current fitness level are factors you want to consider when trying this; heavier/taller athletes will require a bit more cushion and will have to be more proactive and buidling very slowly and preferably find soft surfaces to let your legs adapt. Lighter/shorter runs can be a bit more aggressive but still training load, that is how much you run will remain the number 1 factor when it comes to injuries. That is, if you do too much too soon no matter what shoes you use or surface you run on your chances at getting hurt will increase.

Finally, I don't personsally buy 100% on the whole barefoot running by the simple fact that while we most likely weren't genetically designed to run with sneakers, also we weren't most likely designed to run on asphalt either.
2009-10-05 12:01 PM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
Probably not enough profit for Nike.  But you can get your own kit with Vibram soles.  http://barefootted.com/shop/
2009-10-05 12:57 PM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
I don’t get it what is minimalist running?  Did I miss something?  Is it run less?

LOL - I thought it was run less or run IN less, like maybe a speedo or thong....
2009-10-05 1:38 PM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
Jorge--

thanks! you kind of affirm my feeling that my shoes actually irritate me. I'm going to try some shorter runs in my racing flats and see what happens. I ran in them yesterday and had a great run. 


2009-10-05 3:10 PM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running
I'm really interested in this too and have been doing a lot of research. I think I'd like to ease into it and will probably get some lightweight trainers this week! My question though is do people wear their trainers/racers/VFF shoes on treadmills too??? And, can you wear these shoes for a marathon or do you need more cushioning?
2009-10-05 3:37 PM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running

I've been doing a vast majority of my running in Vibram Fivefingers KSOs for the past couple of months, up to and including a 50K trail run.  And, to further help strengthen my feet and ankles, I've changed my "everyday" footwear as well.  I now wear Feelmax Niesa shoes to work, which are about as close to barefoot as you can get while still wearing something that looks like a shoe.  I've really been enjoying this change.

Yesterday I went to a park I've never run in before to do a ~2 hour trail run.  Since I've been searching for a minimalist shoe that can get me through the coming northern Illinois winter, I started the run in my new New Balance MR790 trail shoes, a very light and low profile shoe...like a racing flat for trails.  I was really enjoying the park and the trails, but after about 8 miles I really started to notice, and become annoyed by, the feeling of the arch support in the shoes pushing up on my arch.  I've gotten so used to having no arch support, that even a fairly minimally supportive shoe has started to become annoying.

So, I changed into my Fivefingers, and continued to run another 5 miles.  That last 5 miles was much more enjoyable than the first 8.  That feeling of really being connected to the Earth just feels right.  I even sought out and enjoyed picking my way through some of the rockiest sections of trail, running up and over the large glacial kame in the park, then finding a trail to take me back around to do it again.  I mean, I was really having fun!

Prior to this change, I've had on and off calf injury problems for the last several years.  I continue to have some soreness in my right Achilles from time to time, but it seems to be getting gradually better, not worse, and my calf problems have gone away.  Before the change, I was also starting to feel the early pangs of plantar fasciitis coming on.  As my feet have gotten stronger, that has entirely gone away.  When I started running, back in 2000, I had some significant knee pain.  My podiatrist, who is himself a distance runner, checked me out and pronounced me an overpronator, and recommend I run in motion control shoes.  I ran for a few years in Brooks Beasts, then a few years in Brooks Adrenaline stability shoes.  Common wisdom would have you believe that going from that level of support to virtually no support at all would certainly leave me hobbling.  It hasn't.  I'm enjoying my running now more than ever.

Barefooters will tell you if you want to go minimalist, start barefoot...skin on pavement, ideally on a smooth flat surface, not too soft...smooth concrete or asphalt being the best.  They'll have you believe that, if you really want to hone a natural running form, running the way your body was designed to run, running barefoot is your best way to get there.  Your feet are your best feedback mechanism, so anything that blocks the feeling of your feet against the ground may lead you to a running form that is less than ideal for you.  While I understand that logic and see the wisdom in it, that's not the way I've done it.  I have done a few short runs purely barefoot, but I've been unable or unwilling to really go full-on barefoot with regularity.  I'd like to think I've found a stride that works well for me even though I'm wearing something on my feet.  Time will tell, I guess.

As others have said, by far the biggest mistake people make when switching from supportive, cushioned shoes to minimalist or barefoot, is "too much, too soon".  You really do have to give your feet a lot of time to strengthen and adapt.  This is another reason why some folks will recommend you start barefoot.  Going barefoot, your feet will naturally govern your build up and prevent you from doing too much too soon.  Indeed I've personally heard of a few people who have broken metatarsals, seemingly without warning, as a result of doing too much too soon.  If this is a change you want to make, I recommend it, but I recommend you be very careful not to fall into the "too much, too soon" trap!

A couple places to learn more and ask questions...  Barefoot Ted started a Google group for minimalist running footwear (http://groups.google.com/group/huaraches?hl=en), and there is a Barefoot sub-forum on Runners World where you can get some good advice.

Run smart.  Have fun.



Edited by Steve in IL 2009-10-05 3:45 PM
2009-10-05 3:43 PM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running

Steve in IL - 2009-10-05 4:37 PM

... by far the biggest mistake people make ... is "too much, too soon".

Yes.

If the sole (heh...get it) benefit of minimalist or barefoot running is to get people to slow down and reduce their volume to a workable level, then it has accomplished its mission.

2009-10-05 4:01 PM
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Subject: RE: minimalist running

There are people who run marathons and beyond in VFF, and even barefoot.  I know of a couple people who have done 100 mile trail ultras in VFFs.

Regarding your question on the treadmill, I've run in my VFFs on the treadmill, but I just found it boring.  If your goal is to improve your running form, I really think a hard surface is the best.  A hard surface will give you better feedback and help you improve your form, teaching you how to get all the cushioning you need from your body.  I think the treadmill just has too much give for my tastes.

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