General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes? Rss Feed  
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2009-10-07 10:57 AM


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Subject: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?
Hi,

I currently run x3 per week in Saucony Triumphs (v.cushioned) with orthotics that are to correct overpronation. I'm also coming off the back of a bout of Achilles Tendonitis, so I'm not running any great distances at the moment, just doing gentle runs of 30-40mins.

I'm interested in the idea of minimalist running shoes and I would like to try using some racing flats or similar once a week as a way of strengthening my legs and feet.

I think Newtons would be ideal as I tend to land towards my forefoot, but they are a bit too expensive or me, so I was hoping you could recommend something similar.

I'd also be interested to hear your thoughts on using minimalist shoes once per week and then my usual shoes with orthotics the rest of the time? Do you think this would be a good way to strengthen my feet and legs to stop the AT recurring?

Thanks for your help.


2009-10-07 11:02 AM
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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?
Why try and change your natural stride with a shoe???

As for which "minimalist" shoe to go with?  Talk to your shop and see what they recommend for a pronator.  There are a few out there I believe.  (The Zoot model comes to mind - check out their site).
2009-10-07 11:25 AM
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?
Thanks for your reply.

I wouldn't say that I was trying to change my running style, rather that I was looking for a shoe that will compliment it while offering the benefits that I've been reading about recently regarding barefoot running/minimal running shoes.
I don't want to go as far as barefoot running, but I think that using a simple shoe or a racing flat once a week could be a good way to strengthen my feet.

I will go to see my local shop and see what they recommend.
2009-10-07 11:26 AM
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Pro
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?
Popular topic lately!

I'm in the process of switching over to more minimalist shoes myself. I think my feet must be pretty strong to begin with, as I spend as much time as I can barefoot (just feels better to me). Cushioned shoes were making my feet hurt! I'm rotating in two new pairs of minimalist shoes, gradually building up distance, but haven't run longer than 5 miles in either pair yet. So far so good! I've had absolutely no issues with them so far, and love the way they feel!

I think it's a good idea to break into a new style of shoe slowly. Start by using them one run per week (one of your shorter runs) and increase the amount you run in them gradually each week.

As to which shoes.... I think Rick is right - you just need to go to some local running stores and try a few on. If Saucony shoes fit you well, they make a few minimalist models: A3 (more of a true racing flat); Fast Twitch (still very light and with a flexible sole, but has a bit more of a built up heel); and Tangent (billed as a "light stability" shoe - this might be a good one for you to try).

Most of the big shoe manufacturers have minimalist models on the market now - I think you just need to get out there and try some on....

Good luck!
2009-10-07 12:25 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?

I'd recommend Vibrams for minimalist footwear.  If thats too expensive, then go with some really cheap river shoes from Walmart.  You can pick up a pair for less than $10.

As for Newtons, be careful.  My understanding is that they over-emphasize the forefoot strike.  Your body will naturally figure out the most comfortable way for your foot to land with minimalist shoes on.

2009-10-07 1:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?
Ridgelake - 2009-10-07 12:25 PM

I'd recommend Vibrams for minimalist footwear.  If thats too expensive, then go with some really cheap river shoes from Walmart.  You can pick up a pair for less than $10.



This leads to my question: If you're really looking for minimalist, would you require any features? How do you judge one pair of minimalist shoes to be "better" than the others? If you seek out shoes for a pronator (as Rick suggests) or "light stability" shoes (per Jenny), are they still "minimalist"? I though the idea was to avoid constraining the foot artificially.

Personally I'm working in a pair of Asics Priranha SPs that were abandoned at one of our triathlons. Not sure if I'd pay the $110 for them, though.

If that goes well, maybe I'll try the water shoes or barefooting.



Edited by the bear 2009-10-07 1:07 PM


2009-10-07 1:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?
the bear - 2009-10-07 3:04 PM

Personally I'm working in a pair of Asics Priranha SPs that were abandoned at one of our triathlons. Not sure if I'd pay the $110 for them, though.

If that goes well, maybe I'll try the water shoes or barefooting.



A great option that I would suggest to people looking for a lighter shoe is to look for a spikeless x-country flat; if you buy last season's model you can usually pick them up for under $50.

Shane

Edited by gsmacleod 2009-10-07 1:08 PM
2009-10-07 1:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?
the bear - 2009-10-07 2:04 PM

Ridgelake - 2009-10-07 12:25 PM

I'd recommend Vibrams for minimalist footwear.  If thats too expensive, then go with some really cheap river shoes from Walmart.  You can pick up a pair for less than $10.



This leads to my question: If you're really looking for minimalist, would you require any features? How do you judge one pair of minimalist shoes to be "better" than the others? If you seek out shoes for a pronator (as Rick suggests) or "light stability" shoes (per Jenny), are they still "minimalist"? I though the idea was to avoid constraining the foot artificially.

Personally I'm working in a pair of Asics Priranha SPs that were abandoned at one of our triathlons. Not sure if I'd pay the $110 for them, though.

If that goes well, maybe I'll try the water shoes or barefooting.



I think that's probably the ultimate goal, but maybe someone who has been in a highly engineered shoe for a long time could benefit from gradually decreasing levels of engineering?? (just speculating here.....) I imagine moving directly from a highly engineered shoes to vibrams or complete barefooting might be tough, especially if someone wants to keep their weekly mileage up in the process.
2009-10-07 1:31 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?

Here's my take.  But first, a little background.  I'm in the process of going barefoot/minimalist.  I started a few weeks ago.  I got into tris about 5 years ago, but had foot problems most of the last 4.  I've done the gamut of highly supportive footwear, the motion control shoes.  I've had multiple sets of custom orthotics.  Numerous visits to podiatrists.  Cortisone shots.  Strassburg Socks.  You name it.  Nothing has seemed to work.

I'm a heel striker.  My foot rolls inward upon contact.  At least thats what I do with the motion control shoes.  With orthotics, I can usually keep that from happening.  But I've still had foot problems.

I decided to go the complete opposite route.  My running motion is totally different barefoot or in Vibrams than it is with my regular running shoes.  I land on the balls of my feet for one thing.  Its gosh darn hard to pronate if thats where you're landing.  It feels so natural running barefoot.  I havent looked at tape or whatnot, but I have a pretty good idea that I am running much more as we're supposed to do.  Much more efficiently.

I don't think gradually stepping down is the right move.   And actually might make things worse.  You may be getting benefit from all that motion control.  With a step down shoe, your stride may not change, but you'll lose the support. 

Going barefoot or minimalist is starting from scratch.  Like 5 to 10 minutes for awhile.  You stress different body parts running that way.  It takes them awhile to adapt.  I'm willing to do that given how limited I've been historically.

2009-10-07 2:55 PM
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Elite
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?
I pronate, but less so since I've been running in Nike Free.  I do all my runs in them, max 13.1 so far but doing the marathon in 2 weeks in them.  Most of my running is on rocky trails so I like the thick sole.  I was having knee and hip issues before moving to these and I still have a bit of stiffness now and then but no injuries.  I tried scuba booties but the sole is too thin for the trails and the neoprene was too hot in summer -- may try them again this winter in the snow.
2009-10-07 9:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?
I also want to go the minimalist route and am looking at getting lightweight trainers or the VFF. However, I went to my local running store and I explained to the sales person what I wanted and she kept telling me that racing flats/lightweight trainers would break down very quickly if they were worn for long distance running and she recommended only racing in the trainers, but continuing my training in my normal shoes (which is what I really want to get away from). She also said that the trainers wouldn't have enough cushioning for a full marathon and my feet would really suffer if I ran a marathon in them. But, isn't going the minimalist/barefoot route all about "retraining" your feet/legs so I won't need all of the cushioning in regular shoes, hence making the trainers/VFF fine to run in even at long distances? So, I guess my question is, if I do make the switch to trainers/VFF how often would I have to replace my shoes if I were doing ALL of my running in them..including marathon training?


2009-10-07 10:04 PM
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2009-10-07 10:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?
I've been running exclusively in VFFs since April.  In the first month all of my ITB problems vanished and have not returned. Since then I've put in LOTs of miles on them.  I've run a 25K race, a half-mary race and a sprint tri in them as well.  Will be training in them through the winter for a February Marathon. I have no plans to go with a more padded shoe.  In fact, I've tried a few runs in my asics and find them to be just plain uncomfortable now...too much padding and bulk. 

For what it is worth, I switched over to the VFFs and never went back to my old shoes.  It just didn't make sense to go back to the style of shoe that seemed to be causing all my problems.  I was up to 6 miles per run in VFFs in a matter of just a few weeks.  Now don't get me wrong, I DO think that was too fast of a transition BUT I was just so desperate to solve my ITB issues that had plagued me for years.  And I was lucky...no major problems (excepts for some very sore calves for a few weeks).  Before VFFs, a half-mary was a painful undertaking and a marathon was out of the question. Now, I do 13+ miles with no issues.  I anticipate the same for the upcoming marathon.

Bottom line, I just don't buy it that we need all that padding under our feet.  And, except for the occasional true biomechanical/physical foot deformity, I don't believe most people need any motion control either.  The foot is a fantastically made device that, if allowed to function properly (i.e. not confined/restricted/controlled by a shoe) will serve quite nicely and reliably.  In my case, that has certainly been proven.  BUT, each person will certainly have to try this out for themselves to see if the same is true in their case.  Maybe I'm the exception rather than the rule...??? Laughing
2009-10-07 10:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?
JeepFleeb - 2009-10-07 10:04 PM Slightly related topic:
The new VFF Bikila's will be out next spring and are designed specifically for road running.  They'll have a new heel, EVA foam in the arch, and a more traditional tred pattern.  I'm really geeked for this shoe!



I've worked my way down from Asics light trainers to Nike Free 3.0 to VFF.  I love the feel of running with next to nothing on my feet and I doubt I'll ever go back.  My VFF's only have a summer of use but I have an ultra-runner friend with more than 1,000 miles on a pair.


can't wait to try them!
2009-10-07 10:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?
I love my VFF's. The only problem I have with them is that one of my feet is a bit smaller than the other, so it tends to slide around in them, especially when they get sweaty. Oh well. they feel great to run in, and all my shin splints and knee aches have been gone ever since I started.
2009-10-08 12:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?
JeepFleeb - 2009-10-07 11:04 PM Slightly related topic:
The new VFF Bikila's will be out next spring and are designed specifically for road running.  They'll have a new heel, EVA foam in the arch, and a more traditional tred pattern.  I'm really geeked for this shoe!



I've worked my way down from Asics light trainers to Nike Free 3.0 to VFF.  I love the feel of running with next to nothing on my feet and I doubt I'll ever go back.  My VFF's only have a summer of use but I have an ultra-runner friend with more than 1,000 miles on a pair.


Hmmm....maybe I'll wait to get a pair of VFF until these come out.


2009-10-08 9:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?

I've switched almost all of my running to Fivefingers.

I've also been experimenting with some low profile shoes for (a) very rocky or very long trail runs/ultras, and/or (b) northern Illinois winter running.  For that I've tried the light, low profile New Balance MR790, and I've tried a spikeless XC flat, the Brooks Mach 11 Spikeless.  Jury's still out on each of them since I still like the Fivefingers better.

Edit to add:  Besides running shoes, I've also made a major switchover in my everyday shoes as well.  I work in a business casual office environment, in my case being heavy on casual, light on business.  I've been exclusively wearing Feelmax Niesa shoes to work for the past several weeks.  These are even more minimal than VFFs..the sole is just 1 mm thick, but they have the appearance of regular shoes.  I think this has really helped in further strengthening my feet and ankles since I'm in these shoes ~12 hours a day, versus more typically ~1 hour per day running my my FFs.



Edited by Steve in IL 2009-10-08 9:52 AM
2009-10-08 2:08 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?

I would suggest that you go for a cheap pair of water shoes from Wal-Mart. They are less than $10.00 and have zero support. Your feet and legs have to use all of their muscles.

Its not that I don't like the Vibrams, I don't like the price. They are a little bit lighter than water shoes but offer no other benefit.

I ran the 2007 Chicago Marathon in water shoes and did just fine.

If you want to take advantage of barefoot running and don't want to run on pavement. Find a park and run on the grass. Especially if you are nursing an injury. I use to run the perimenter of a park near my house. It got boring running in half mile circles but it felt great.

2009-10-08 2:47 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?
Steve in IL - 2009-10-08 10:26 AM

Edit to add:  Besides running shoes, I've also made a major switchover in my everyday shoes as well.  I work in a business casual office environment, in my case being heavy on casual, light on business.  I've been exclusively wearing Feelmax Niesa shoes to work for the past several weeks.  These are even more minimal than VFFs..the sole is just 1 mm thick, but they have the appearance of regular shoes.  I think this has really helped in further strengthening my feet and ankles since I'm in these shoes ~12 hours a day, versus more typically ~1 hour per day running my my FFs.



Thank you! I have also discovered that some of my dress shoes cause more problems than my running shoes. I wish I could get away with these at work. Let me know if you come across anything similar that is just a bit more acceptable with a pair of dress pants or a suit.
Thanks!
2009-10-08 3:07 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?
I too, just posted on this and am making my way to a sort of minimalist. I am running either in my race flats or my stability shoe without superfeet (I've only been at it for a week).

the only think I noticed after my first run was that my legs were a bit sore. but my ankle, my nagging injury, felt fine.

good luck. 
2009-10-08 4:37 PM
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Champion
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Subject: RE: Which minimalist/forefoot running shoes?

Okay I am in with this minimalist stuff theoretically at this point.  I have a Marathon in less than 2 months and I am thinking it would be a bad time to try changing,  but once that is over almost barefoot is where I am going.



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