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Tri Bike for Hilly Courses
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 2009-10-08 7:27 AM |
Veteran 353   41° 4' 36" N 71° 56' 10" W |  Subject: Tri Bike for Hilly CoursesI have heard it once said that the benefits of a tri bike are less when hills are involved. Your take? (most of the training and races I like to do involve what they call "challenging climbs") Thanks |
| 2009-10-08 7:48 AM in reply to: #2449090 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses How "hilly" are you talking here? I have done IMLP and it is easily a tri bike course (mine was down for the count during that and I planned on riding my road bike anyway because when I ride it, I don't push as hard). I also ride the Columbia Tri olympic on my tri bike and it is a very challenging and rolling course. Unless you are talking about Savageman or the Monaco 70.3, there are not many courses out there that cannot be ridden comfortably on a tri bike. |
| 2009-10-08 7:58 AM in reply to: #2449090 |
Veteran 249 Littleton, Colorado | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses I think there are two points on how a tri bike would be less beneficial on a hilly course. First off, while climbing there will be a near negligible amount of wind resistance, so you lose your aero advantage. Secondly, if the course has so extreme hills, the gearing on your tri bike might not go low enough for you. The last tri I did had a 21 mile bike ride that averaged 90ft/mile of climbing. If I had a tri-bike I still would have used my roadie for this as the front crank is a triple instead of the double you see on virtually all tri-bikes. You could definitely see those with tri-bikes were struggling at the tops of climbs mashing away in their lowest gear, where I was able to spin up most climbs - passing them and leaving my legs a littler fresher for the run. |
| 2009-10-08 8:00 AM in reply to: #2449162 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses V1per41 - 2009-10-08 8:58 AM Secondly, if the course has so extreme hills, the gearing on your tri bike might not go low enough for you. Please explain for the dumb kids in the class how gearing has ANYTHING to do with a tri bike over a road bike. Edited by Daremo 2009-10-08 8:00 AM |
| 2009-10-08 8:11 AM in reply to: #2449090 |
| Veteran 353 41° 4' 36" N 71° 56' 10" W | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses Not sure how to compare. If the average guy is only managing about 8-10 mph up some of these climbs (maybe a qtr mile at most), yes hilly, but I have not basis for comparison on other challenging course in the country. But as a basis of comparison, on one course, averaging 20 mph the entire course (including the scary downhill sections where you could easily go 35) is mostly limited to the elite bracket. |
| 2009-10-08 8:11 AM in reply to: #2449165 |
Pro 3804   Seacoast, NH! | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses Daremo - 2009-10-08 9:00 AM V1per41 - 2009-10-08 8:58 AM Secondly, if the course has so extreme hills, the gearing on your tri bike might not go low enough for you. Please explain for the dumb kids in the class how gearing has ANYTHING to do with a tri bike over a road bike. I think we're talking about double/triple cranks. If you're looking to buy a bike and there's a triple crank road bike and a regular crank/double tri bike for a real hilly course, and you aren't the best of hill riders, then the triple may be better for you. Especially if you're comfortable at a higher cadence. |
| 2009-10-08 8:24 AM in reply to: #2449090 |
Extreme Veteran 745 Colo Springs, CO | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses I believe that most "racing" road bikes come with standard (which is a double) or compact cranksets. Generally, triples are put on "touring" road bikes. And aside from beginners, I rarely see triples, even around here (CO mountains.) Again, it all depends on what you consider "hilly". 90 ft/mile (mentioned by an earlier poster) is less climbing than my regular loop, and I do it with a compact . There is no way I'd need a triple for that little amount of climbing. |
| 2009-10-08 8:32 AM in reply to: #2449222 |
Pro 3804 Seacoast, NH! | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses lodewey - 2009-10-08 9:24 AM I believe that most "racing" road bikes come with standard (which is a double) or compact cranksets. Generally, triples are put on "touring" road bikes. And aside from beginners, I rarely see triples, even around here (CO mountains.) Again, it all depends on what you consider "hilly". 90 ft/mile (mentioned by an earlier poster) is less climbing than my regular loop, and I do it with a compact . There is no way I'd need a triple for that little amount of climbing. Yeah...I'd have to agree. Guess we need some more info. from the original person asking the question. |
| 2009-10-08 9:14 AM in reply to: #2449090 |
Veteran 121 | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses When I first got my tri bike I was disappointed to see my times increase for some of the hills I used for hill repeats. Since I got the bike during the off-season, I thought it was a fitness issue and didn't give it a second thought. Later in the season, I was doing hill repeats on the road bike and all my splits were better than the tri bike. |
| 2009-10-08 9:22 AM in reply to: #2449090 |
Expert 1035 lake forest, California | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses I've been under the impression the geometry of a road bike being different than a Tri bike will be more suited to climb due to which muscles are used. I have a Half Iron this weekend- 6000' of climbing on the bike course. I consider that pretty hilly and have trained exclusively on my roadie for that reason. Is this correct? What about riding a Tri bike with a compact crank and different geared cassette? Would this be equal? |
| 2009-10-08 9:47 AM in reply to: #2449365 |
Master 1651 Breckenridge, CO | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses marq - 2009-10-08 8:14 AM Later in the season, I was doing hill repeats on the road bike and all my splits were better than the tri bike. My training rides are typically 55-60 miles with 4500 - 5000 feet climbing on long sustained climbs (I did 19 of them in September). When I first moved to a tri bike, I hated it. The hate was due to many years of riding slack geometry. I just felt weak and had fatigue in strange places. In terms of the ride, my biggest complaint was on the descents. Due to the twitchiness and location of the brake levers, I couldn't be nearly as aggressive as on my road bike. On the climbing the only thing I didn't like was that it's hard to shift out-of-saddle. I don't remember noticing the extra weight at all. But after riding my tri bike on climbing routes for about 2000 miles, I'm now obviously faster on my tri bike than on my road bike. The ride negatives are still there but I've adjusted to them so they don't really bug me much anymore. PS. Those who think wind resistance is not a major factor on climbing should come to the mountains and ride. On my rides the wind is almost always blowing downhill because, 1) cold air at higher elevations is heavy and drops downhill, 2) storms sit at high elevations due to orographics and generate outflows down the mountain. IMO, my tri-bike is a great advantage due to those headwinds while climbing. Edited by breckview 2009-10-08 9:48 AM |
| 2009-10-08 9:49 AM in reply to: #2449090 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses I was being facetious. The gearing on one bike over another is entirely irrelevant as you can get the same gearing on all bikes. In fact, mine are the exact same. The geometry of a tri bike can be the exact same as the geometry of a road bike and still be called a "different" style of bike (perhaps because of aero tubing). There is no standard that makes a tri bike steep with a short top tube. Every manufacturer is different. And I can guarantee that someone who is a strong rider will smoke others regardless of which bike they rode, even up hill. I've beaten many people on road bikes up hills on my tri bike. And I can stand and climb with it no problem. |
| 2009-10-08 10:00 AM in reply to: #2449383 |
Master 1651 Breckenridge, CO | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses jbjboc - 2009-10-08 8:22 AM I have a Half Iron this weekend- 6000' of climbing on the bike course. I consider that pretty hilly ... 6000' of climbing over 56 miles is enormously hilly, which compares to TdF climbing stages. Assuming it was one linear climb, and realizing that any loop must have an equal amount of descending vert, the climbing would be an average 4.1% grade (0.041= 6000 / ((56/2)*5280)) Here the mapmyride link of the course: http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/united-states/ca/castaic/468124406267... It states 4846' of climbing but I think mapmyride climbing gains are usually low so I don't doubt your 6000' number. |
| 2009-10-08 10:02 AM in reply to: #2449449 |
Champion 5781 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses Daremo - 2009-10-08 7:49 AM I was being facetious. The gearing on one bike over another is entirely irrelevant as you can get the same gearing on all bikes. In fact, mine are the exact same. The geometry of a tri bike can be the exact same as the geometry of a road bike and still be called a "different" style of bike (perhaps because of aero tubing). There is no standard that makes a tri bike steep with a short top tube. Every manufacturer is different. And I can guarantee that someone who is a strong rider will smoke others regardless of which bike they rode, even up hill. I've beaten many people on road bikes up hills on my tri bike. And I can stand and climb with it no problem. ^^ That and cockpit configuration. My Kestrel is "technically" a road bike, but with the basebar/aerobar cockpit and the two-position seatpost (saddle in the forward position), the only thing that argues for that characterization is the seatpost angle. In all other respects, it's a time trial build. In most people's eyes, it's a "tri bike." And I wouldn't even consider riding my (aluminum) Scott roadie in a race, even on a "hilly" course. Weight trumps geometry (and even granny gear) for me...I was intimidated by the prospect of climbing with a double rather than a triple at first. Then I got out and trained hills, hills, and hills on the new bike. Unless a climb is, literally, 12%+ grade, I don't miss the triple anymore. |
| 2009-10-08 11:02 AM in reply to: #2449468 |
Expert 1035 lake forest, California | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses Mile 0-7.2: (Total climb 7.2 miles) 4.5 percent grade, 1700 feet ascent. Mile 9-11 and 23-25: (Total climb 2.0 miles) 4.2 percent grade, 471 feet ascent Mile 14-16 and 28-30: (Total climb 2.0 miles) 1.7 percent grade, 188 feet ascent Mile 18-21 and 32-35: (Total climb 3.2 miles) 5.8 percent grade, 921 feet ascent Mile 38-40: (1.4 Total climb miles) 5.2 percent grade, 391 feet of ascent 5648' total actually- heres the breakdown from the website. But anyways I know Daremo was being facitious about the gearing, but I am surprised that the geometry of a road and tri frame could be similar in some cases. I also realize its not the bike but the legs working it! So I suppose the major differences in bike style is how you set it up- |
| 2009-10-08 11:24 AM in reply to: #2449627 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses jbjboc - 2009-10-08 12:02 PM ......... but I am surprised that the geometry of a road and tri frame could be similar in some cases. I also realize its not the bike but the legs working it! So I suppose the major differences in bike style is how you set it up- Bingo. The manufacturer sets up the geometry. It just so happens that the general trend right now (again - it is cyclical) is toward steep seat angles and most US tri bikes are being built that way. That is not always the case. For manufacturers that are focusing on the pro cyclists, they are limited to the location of the front of the saddle in relation to the centerline of the bottom bracket. They cannot go with 78+ degree seat tubes without the mechanics having to literally cut the noses off of the saddles to make the bike compliant with UCI regulations. And while brands like Cervelo have made their reputation bigger off of the tri crowd, the big names usually don't give a sh-t about them and set their bikes up around the pro peloton (as it should be since that is their market). |
| 2009-10-08 11:29 AM in reply to: #2449669 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses Any time you spend on the hoods takes away from the advantage a tri bike is built for. So if you can stay in aero on the hills, you win. If you have to ride the hoods for hills or comfort or techinical course, whatever reason, you lose... |
| 2009-10-08 11:45 AM in reply to: #2449090 |
| Veteran 353 41° 4' 36" N 71° 56' 10" W | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses A little more info if this helps- I currently ride a Specialized Allez with clip ons. It has 3 gears up front. There is only one .2 mile part of one race where I ever go into that 3rd gear. I do jump out of the saddle on the aggressive climbs in sprint and oly distances, but getting much better in terms of keeping my fanny on the seat. I am probably considered a faster rider, FWIW, as I seem to finish in the top 10-15 pct for the bike leg. I seem to make up a lot of time on the hills (but probably pay for it on ths run  ) I asked this question about tri bikes and hills because - just like a number of other posts I made here recently - I am trying to weigh the cost/benefits of a tri bike. For me, my races will probably always be sprint-oly with oly being my favorite distance. I may do one HIM in the future (my favorite course, which is roughly that same HIM, is reportedly a 2200 total feet of elevation gain). And wind is almost always an issue. |
| 2009-10-09 11:34 AM in reply to: #2449196 |
Veteran 249 Littleton, Colorado | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses jgerbodegrant - 2009-10-08 9:11 AM Daremo - 2009-10-08 9:00 AM V1per41 - 2009-10-08 8:58 AM Secondly, if the course has so extreme hills, the gearing on your tri bike might not go low enough for you. Please explain for the dumb kids in the class how gearing has ANYTHING to do with a tri bike over a road bike. I think we're talking about double/triple cranks. If you're looking to buy a bike and there's a triple crank road bike and a regular crank/double tri bike for a real hilly course, and you aren't the best of hill riders, then the triple may be better for you. Especially if you're comfortable at a higher cadence. Exactly. I'm seeing more and more road bikes come in triples where I don't think I've ever seen a TT bike come in anything but a double. This was the difference I was referring too in the gear ratios. |
| 2009-10-09 3:02 PM in reply to: #2449446 |
Extreme Veteran 1996 Halifax, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses breckview - 2009-10-08 11:47 AM marq - 2009-10-08 8:14 AM Later in the season, I was doing hill repeats on the road bike and all my splits were better than the tri bike. My training rides are typically 55-60 miles with 4500 - 5000 feet climbing on long sustained climbs (I did 19 of them in September). PS. Those who think wind resistance is not a major factor on climbing should come to the mountains and ride. On my rides the wind is almost always blowing downhill because, 1) cold air at higher elevations is heavy and drops downhill, 2) storms sit at high elevations due to orographics and generate outflows down the mountain. IMO, my tri-bike is a great advantage due to those headwinds while climbing.To boot, it is critical for pro riders to draft as long as they can on big climbs like Alpe Duez and Ventoux to save energy. And if there's a draft, there is wind resistance. Aero helps on uphills as well, just not as much. |
| 2009-10-09 5:01 PM in reply to: #2449090 |
Extreme Veteran 644 Anaheim | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses To really answer the origional question: depends. The other have made good points, also you should understand that you change your virtual geometry by sliding back and forth on your seat and where you put your hands. I think we need a working definition of challenging climbs and hilly. |
| 2009-10-09 6:24 PM in reply to: #2449090 |
| New user 80 McKinney,TX | Subject: RE: Tri Bike for Hilly Courses I switched to a compact on my Felt S22 & love to climb with it,just slide my toosh back on the saddle. |
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