General Discussion Triathlon Talk » To Kick or not to Kick Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2009-10-30 6:59 AM

Member
23

Ambler, PA
Subject: To Kick or not to Kick

This may sound like a stupid question but do you kick when you swim? Especially in ironman. One of the books that I read said that triathletes don't really kick because they need to save their legs for the bike and run. I have also heard that kicking is where most of your power comes from. I was watching 2006 ironman on NBC Universal last night and it looked like a lot of the people were kicking. I really don't know which way is beter. All of the races I have done I have not kicked, but I am doing my first IM this year and wanted to get some opinions.



2009-10-30 7:41 AM
in reply to: #2488452

User image

Expert
697
500100252525
Atlanta, GA
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick

Yes, I kick every time I swim.  It's just natural for me and I'm not worried about 'saving my legs'.

2009-10-30 7:48 AM
in reply to: #2488452

User image

Master
1222
1000100100
Lafayette, IN
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
I would disagree with the person who said " kicking is most of your power comes from."  If I swim kick only, I am much slower than if I do some laps pull only.  As far as kicking, I plan on kicking enough in my IM to keep me swimming "downhill" and then I will kick with more intensity the last 200 yards or so before I stand up to wake up my legs and get the blood moving in them.

It must be true that us triathletes don't kick much because I went to a master's class once and after a couple laps the instructor there said; "you must be a triathlete".  When I asked how she knew, she replied; " your not kicking!"Smile Now, in training, I kick.

Heck, if you guys here on BT are not kicking and are still swimming 1:30 100's then you are really fast!
2009-10-30 8:34 AM
in reply to: #2488452

User image

Master
2202
2000100100
Canton, Michigan
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick

I kick but it's minimal.  I just don't get that much forward propulsion from my kick even with good flexibility in the ankles and my size 13 feet.  I seem to get by just fine and find that my swim against other racers is my best event and normally finish in the top 25% and don't feel like I'm working all that hard in the water.  Not to mention with another 10-12 hours to go after the swim I'll save the legs for that part of the day.  The few minutes I could gain in the water could easily be lost during the rest of the day.

2009-10-30 8:39 AM
in reply to: #2488452

User image

Expert
1074
10002525
Madison, MS
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick

My calves can cramp very badly when I swim (think not-able-to-walk-for-2-days badly). It's not all the time, but I've only recently started to actually kick with more frequency. But, mostly, for long swims, I only kick enough to keep my legs from sinking. I swim a lot with a pull buoy when the legs are crabby. It worked fine at IMFL last year. The buoy had my legs used to the buoyancy of the wetsuit, I kicked only very lightly, until the end, and then I didn't kick at all.

2009-10-30 9:06 AM
in reply to: #2488452

User image

Coach
10487
50005000100100100100252525
Boston, MA
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
of course! You aren't seeking to gain much propulsion from it but kicking is very important for proper body balance, rotation and rhythm for your stroke.


2009-10-30 9:16 AM
in reply to: #2488452

User image

Veteran
419
100100100100
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
My kick is the best part of my stroke, so I kick every time I swim in a race.  I do try to take it easier with the kicking in an IM a little more though.
2009-10-30 9:34 AM
in reply to: #2488452

User image

Pro
5169
50001002525
Burbs
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
Most of your power in swimming comes from pulling.  Time yourself for 50m while kicking only with a board, then for 50m while pulling (no kick).

I kick, but like ^^ said, because it helps with balance and overall good form.
2009-10-30 9:50 AM
in reply to: #2488452

User image

New user
9

Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
I don't kick much because it seems to take a lot more energy from my legs for the rest of the day. I also found that by only using small kicks, just enough to keep me swimming down hill, I dont have as many issues with leg cramps later in the race, like on the run. Even without kicking I am still able to do around 1:28/ 100yds split on the 1/2IM and feel great when I come out of the water. I guess I could kick harder and shave a little time off the swim...but IMO it't better to have the energy for the bike and the run.
2009-10-30 11:54 AM
in reply to: #2488452

User image

Master
1790
1000500100100252525
Tyler, TX
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
I'm always amazed at how "real" swimmers often keep a strong 6-beat kick during long swims.  You can still be pretty fast with a good 2-beat kick, though.  It can give you propulsion in addition to correct body position, but not tire you out as much.  I hope that nobody is actually recommending no-kicking!

This is a good video contrasting fast swimmers, one using a two beat and the other a six beat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oac5nUDns94

Brian
2009-10-30 12:21 PM
in reply to: #2488452

User image

Elite
2423
2000100100100100
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick

Kick for sure.



2009-10-30 1:11 PM
in reply to: #2488982

User image

Master
1222
1000100100
Lafayette, IN
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
gbgice - 2009-10-30 9:50 AM I don't kick much because it seems to take a lot more energy from my legs for the rest of the day. I also found that by only using small kicks, just enough to keep me swimming down hill, I dont have as many issues with leg cramps later in the race, like on the run. Even without kicking I am still able to do around 1:28/ 100yds split on the 1/2IM and feel great when I come out of the water. I guess I could kick harder and shave a little time off the swim...but IMO it't better to have the energy for the bike and the run.


That is great!  I am really amazed at  how fast so many of you are!  Today in the pool, I did some all out sprints for 50 yds and my average was 1:20/100!  I figure for long course I am probably at least 2:00/100, maybe slower.  Reminds me of the average speeds on the bike I was looking at the other day.  Do most of you really average 22+ MPH on long course tris? 

I have a LOT of work to do!Smile
2009-10-30 1:29 PM
in reply to: #2488452

User image

Master
1572
10005002525
PA
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
johntoth - 2009-10-30 7:59 AM

This may sound like a stupid question but do you kick when you swim? 



Your kick can serve different purposes w/ different intensities.  My long distance swimming (slower pace) kick is there, but I don't even notice it.  It just comes naturally and it really is more for balance as others said.  It feels like I'm hardly kick though.  If I'm doing a sprint tri and the swim is only say 750M, I'm much more intentional about a kick that is more intense.  If I'm swimming hard 50s or 100s, my kick is even stronger.  So for me, it absolutely changes based on swimming slow, steady, moderate or fast.
2009-10-31 9:56 AM
in reply to: #2488452

User image

Bob
2194
2000100252525
Binghamton, NY
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
The whole "triathlete's don't kick to save their legs" theory is BS. The bottom line is that kicking is an important part of the stroke and you should practice kicking to be a more efficient swimmer. To compare kicking and pulling by how fast you can swim is comparing apples to oranges.

I have a 6 beat kick when I swim and consider it the strongest part of my stroke. Whether I'm swimming a 50 sprint or 2.4 miles I still use a 6 beat kick. Does it hurt my bike leg, absolutely not. Obviously swimming a 50 sprint I am kicking much harder than I am during an Ironman as it'd entirely anaerobic.

2009-10-31 10:26 AM
in reply to: #2488452

Master
1963
10005001001001001002525
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
Yes, to kick.
2009-10-31 11:22 AM
in reply to: #2488452

User image

Extreme Veteran
508
500
Fleming Island, FL
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
To me, swimming is just a necessary evil for doing triathlons and I could benefit from a good swim lesson. My kick sucks to say the least when doing laps in a pool. I find that when I have my wetsuit on during OWS I hardly kick at all. I love the bouyancy that the wetsuit gives.


2009-11-01 2:01 PM
in reply to: #2488452

User image

Member
53
2525
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
Not an expert swimmer, but with wetsuit on - I only kick to roll back over after taking some air... keeps the balance and speed up.... and saves energy over the duration.
2009-11-01 3:37 PM
in reply to: #2488833

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2009-11-01 4:42 PM
in reply to: #2492095

Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
PennState - 2009-11-01 1:37 PM
JorgeM - 2009-10-30 10:06 AM of course! You aren't seeking to gain much propulsion from it but kicking is very important for proper body balance, rotation and rhythm for your stroke.


This ^^^


x2.  I have a (sorta) 2 beat kick, helps rotation and balance.   Does very  little for my speed 
2009-11-02 2:27 PM
in reply to: #2488833

Veteran
867
5001001001002525
Vicksburg
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
JorgeM - 2009-10-30 9:06 AM of course! You aren't seeking to gain much propulsion from it but kicking is very important for proper body balance, rotation and rhythm for your stroke.


x2, excellent post.
2009-11-02 4:44 PM
in reply to: #2492150

Champion
5781
5000500100100252525
Northridge, California
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
ChrisM - 2009-11-01 2:42 PM
PennState - 2009-11-01 1:37 PM
JorgeM - 2009-10-30 10:06 AM of course! You aren't seeking to gain much propulsion from it but kicking is very important for proper body balance, rotation and rhythm for your stroke.


This ^^^


x2.  I have a (sorta) 2 beat kick, helps rotation and balance.   Does very  little for my speed 


x3 (or 4 or whatever) on Jorge's comment.  X2 to what Chris said.


2009-11-04 11:14 AM
in reply to: #2488452

Veteran
183
100252525
Buffalo Grove, IL
Subject: RE: To Kick or not to Kick
I barely kick at all. Maybe a slight scissor kick at the end of my stroke but that is it. Mostly my legs are just along for the ride. Doesn't effect my balance or rotation in the slightest. Totally works for me. Maybe I'd be a few seconds faster if I kicked but I prefer to save the legs for the bike and run. Plus I've been swimming like that for so long, to change it now would be a huge adjustment and not worth it in my opinion.
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » To Kick or not to Kick Rss Feed