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2009-11-21 1:57 PM
in reply to: #2524981

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Extreme Veteran
1996
1000500100100100100252525
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Canadian Health Care
CalgaryRunner - 2009-11-21 1:07 PM
ScoopJackson - 2009-11-21 8:34 AM Thanks for the information. That all seems reasonable to me considering the low rates you pay for healthcare. Perhaps the stories you hear on the news occasionally about Canadians having to wait for months at a time for medical procedures are exaggerated?


I think it depends on what the medical procedure is.  As you've read here - some folks have to wait an unreasonable amount of time for MRI's and orthopedic surgery.  My dad did not have to wait an unreasonable amount of time for his heart surgery.


And like the US, rather than wait for those non-acute procedures such as knee replacements, you can use private clinics in some provinces if you are willing to pay for it. As I've mentioned previously I also took my father to Boston a couple of times to a well regarded private clinic but I don't believe the care there was any better than here, though the cafeteria food was a distinct improvement.

Edited by blairrob 2009-11-21 1:58 PM


2009-11-23 11:52 AM
in reply to: #2524143

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Veteran
123
100
Carleton Place, Ontario
Subject: RE: Canadian Health Care
All in all, I'm quite happy with our health care system. My mother fought breast cancer for 20 years and was well treated with no big wait times to have the things done that she needed. My father was told he needed a knee replacement at the end of the summer last year. He had the surgery about 8 weeks later.

Since I'm a risk for breast cancer, I have yearly mammograms, and ultrasounds every few years. No wait times and its all paid for. This year I'm having knee problems and got my MRI after about 10 days. If you tell them you are willing to take a cancellation, it seems like you can get in pretty quickly. I was referred to a sports medicine doctor and got an appt in about a week.

For things like physio, dental, prescriptions etc, I have a good plan with my employer. I'm pretty happy.
2009-11-23 1:02 PM
in reply to: #2524667

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Champion
6962
500010005001001001001002525
Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: Canadian Health Care
blairrob - 2009-11-20 10:24 PM
ScoopJackson - 2009-11-20 11:02 PM I'm curious, what are the tax rates in Canada? What are folks paying in income, sales, property, etc. taxes?
  • 15% on the first $40,726 of taxable income, +
  • 22% on the next $40,726 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $40,726 and $81,452), +
  • 26% on the next $44,812 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $81,452 and $126,264), +
  • 29% of taxable income over $126,264.
  • add another 5% of salary up to a max  of 2k for Canada Pension contributions
  • add1.75% for unemployment  ins
Dividends- about 14% if your are a business owner and pay yourself that way.
sales tax- Federal 5%, provincial tack on up to 7%. Groceries, some essential items are untaxed.
Property taxes vary a lot- $2k to 5k for a $300m property in the burbs of smaller cities. Vancouver, TO, Calgary are a different story. (My Prop taxes #'s are a bit of a guess)          


So you're actually paying LESS than the 35% I am paying in taxes and you get free healthcare?

I currently am in a High Deductable plan and pay $67.73/2 weeks and my employer pays $203.20/2 weeks.  So that's ~$541.86/month.

Am I out to lunch or am I paying more in taxes and healthcare than a socialist high tax country
2009-11-23 1:13 PM
in reply to: #2527357

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Extreme Veteran
1996
1000500100100100100252525
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Canadian Health Care
Marvarnett - 2009-11-23 3:02 PM
So you're actually paying LESS than the 35% I am paying in taxes and you get free healthcare?

I currently am in a High Deductable plan and pay $67.73/2 weeks and my employer pays $203.20/2 weeks.  So that's ~$541.86/month.

Am I out to lunch or am I paying more in taxes and healthcare than a socialist communist high low tax country


   I'm guessing we pay about 5% more in consumption tax which can be a substantial amount for a high spending family, (maybe 3% of income?) and our health care coverage doesn't cover dental, whereas I suspect yours does? 
2009-11-23 1:21 PM
in reply to: #2527386

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Lost in the Luminiferous Aether
Subject: RE: Canadian Health Care
blairrob - 2009-11-23 2:13 PM
Marvarnett - 2009-11-23 3:02 PM
So you're actually paying LESS than the 35% I am paying in taxes and you get free healthcare?

I currently am in a High Deductable plan and pay $67.73/2 weeks and my employer pays $203.20/2 weeks.  So that's ~$541.86/month.

Am I out to lunch or am I paying more in taxes and healthcare than a socialist communist high low tax country


   I'm guessing we pay about 5% more in consumption tax which can be a substantial amount for a high spending family, (maybe 3% of income?) and our health care coverage doesn't cover dental, whereas I suspect yours does? 


Let's not forget that Canada's prescription drug costs are subsidized by US consumers through price controls, that shift costs to the US.  They also benefit form the big brother effect...their government defense spending is significantly lower than our because they reside under the US umbrella of protection.  Both of these things go for many European countries as well

Edited by trinnas 2009-11-23 1:22 PM
2009-11-23 1:36 PM
in reply to: #2527403

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Extreme Veteran
1996
1000500100100100100252525
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Canadian Health Care
trinnas - 2009-11-23 3:21 PM
Let's not forget that Canada's prescription drug costs are subsidized by US consumers through price controls, that shift costs to the US.  They also benefit form the big brother effect...their government defense spending is significantly lower than our because they reside under the US umbrella of protection.  Both of these things go for many European countries as well


Your second point is quite valid. However, I don't think Canada would ever need to have  defense spending as a % of GDP similar to the US as we have different foreign policy interests.

The first point is correct only if American drugmakers sold their products at a loss in Canada. They don't in the vast majority of cases. They do sell their drugs here at a lower margin, but that does not equal a subsidy.
EDTA;   The pharmaceutical industry is the most profitable in the USA  despite spending on one of the largest  lobby groups in the US and being one of the largest spending advertising sectors, (like an ad for plavix is going to make me go out and buy it). To cut prescription drug costs there you need to fetter your unfettered free markets abit.

   Comrade Blair        


Edited by blairrob 2009-11-23 1:46 PM


2009-11-24 2:55 AM
in reply to: #2527357

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Extreme Veteran
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Langley, BC, 'Wet Coast' Canada
Subject: RE: Canadian Health Care

Marvarnett - 2009-11-23 11:02 AM
blairrob - 2009-11-20 10:24 PM
ScoopJackson - 2009-11-20 11:02 PM I'm curious, what are the tax rates in Canada? What are folks paying in income, sales, property, etc. taxes?

  • 15% on the first $40,726 of taxable income, +
  • 22% on the next $40,726 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $40,726 and $81,452), +
  • 26% on the next $44,812 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $81,452 and $126,264), +
  • 29% of taxable income over $126,264.
  • add another 5% of salary up to a max  of 2k for Canada Pension contributions
  • add1.75% for unemployment  ins

Dividends- about 14% if your are a business owner and pay yourself that way.
sales tax- Federal 5%, provincial tack on up to 7%. Groceries, some essential items are untaxed.
Property taxes vary a lot- $2k to 5k for a $300m property in the burbs of smaller cities. Vancouver, TO, Calgary are a different story. (My Prop taxes #'s are a bit of a guess)          



So you're actually paying LESS than the 35% I am paying in taxes and you get free healthcare?

I currently am in a High Deductable plan and pay $67.73/2 weeks and my employer pays $203.20/2 weeks.  So that's ~$541.86/month.

Am I out to lunch or am I paying more in taxes and healthcare than a socialist high tax country


I am not a tax expert, but AFAIK, those rates listed are Federal tax rates. I believe that there may also be Provincial income taxes. We also pay, here in BC anyway, a pretty high sales tax, with a Federal GST and Provincial sales tax, as mentioned. The GST, Goods and Services Tax, really adds up, as it is applied to nearly every purchase and payment, (all utilities etc..)
Health Care insurance fees are Provincially set, usually income-based, so it is not 'free'....You must pay as a resident of BC. I believe Alberta has eliminated this fee for its residents...
Though not called 'taxes', Canada Pension Plan and  (Un)Employment Insurance deductions are also withheld.
I do not know how this compares to most of the US, or other parts of the world.

As for the medical services here in BC, I have always received prompt care when required. I have been very lucky -I have never had a serious medical emergency
(knocks on wood  

2009-11-24 6:36 AM
in reply to: #2527357

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Master
2006
2000
Portland, ME
Subject: RE: Canadian Health Care
Marvarnett - 2009-11-23 1:02 PM
blairrob - 2009-11-20 10:24 PM
ScoopJackson - 2009-11-20 11:02 PM I'm curious, what are the tax rates in Canada? What are folks paying in income, sales, property, etc. taxes?
  • 15% on the first $40,726 of taxable income, +
  • 22% on the next $40,726 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $40,726 and $81,452), +
  • 26% on the next $44,812 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $81,452 and $126,264), +
  • 29% of taxable income over $126,264.
  • add another 5% of salary up to a max  of 2k for Canada Pension contributions
  • add1.75% for unemployment  ins
Dividends- about 14% if your are a business owner and pay yourself that way.
sales tax- Federal 5%, provincial tack on up to 7%. Groceries, some essential items are untaxed.
Property taxes vary a lot- $2k to 5k for a $300m property in the burbs of smaller cities. Vancouver, TO, Calgary are a different story. (My Prop taxes #'s are a bit of a guess)          


So you're actually paying LESS than the 35% I am paying in taxes and you get free healthcare?

I currently am in a High Deductable plan and pay $67.73/2 weeks and my employer pays $203.20/2 weeks.  So that's ~$541.86/month.

Am I out to lunch or am I paying more in taxes and healthcare than a socialist high tax country


If you have a mortgage, I assume you are claiming interest expense as a deduction. In Canada you can't claim that so adjusted gross is much higher.

Also you have to factor in the excise taxes which on many products are excessive. Ask a canadian how much a case of beer is up there.
2009-11-24 10:31 AM
in reply to: #2524143

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Master
1641
100050010025
Seattle, California
Subject: RE: Canadian Health Care
I've been pretty happy with the system.  I haven't been to the doctor a ton myself as I'm young and in good health but my parents are getting older and use the system more frequently.  Their quality of care has been good.    I had to wait 8 months for an elective surgery once (repair a deviated septum), but I waited 7 years to see a doctor about the issue so I didn't really care. 

In general I think that there are improvements that need to be made but all in all I'm pretty happy.  I wouldn't want to change to a US style model.  There isn't much argument against the fact that if you have the money you can receive the best health-care in the world in the US but for me access for all citizens matters more.  I live in a very wealthy country and I believe that we have an obligation to provide basic care to all of our citizens.

As far as taxes go if you added in the healthcare premiums that people pay per month to the amount they pay in income tax I think you would find the tax rates are very competitive or better.  In BC my wife and I are in the top % of income earners and collectively our tax rate will be less then 25% after deductions this upcoming year.  My wife and I probably could make more in the US but I love Canada, my life is good and I'm happy.  An extra 5-10k a year isn't going to affect my life at all. 
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