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2009-11-30 8:17 AM

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Subject: 4 police officers killed, a major failure of the criminal justice system

This never shold have happened:

Clemmons has an extensive violent criminal history from Arkansas. He also recently was arrested and charged in Washington state for assaulting a police officer, and second-degree rape of a child. Using a bail bondsman, he posted $150,000 — only $15,000 of his own money — and was released from jail last week.

Documents related to the pending charges in Washington state indicate an unstable and volatile personality. In one instance, he is accused of punching a sheriff's deputy in the face, The Seattle Times reported. In another, he is accused of gathering his wife and young relatives and forcing them to undress, according to a Pierce County sheriff's report.

"The whole time Clemmons kept saying things like trust him, the world is going to end soon, and that he was Jesus," the report said.

In 1989, Clemmons, then 17, was convicted in Little Rock for aggravated robbery. He was paroled in 2000 after Huckabee commuted a 95-year prison sentence. Huckabee, who was criticized during his run for the Republican presidential nomination in 2008 for granting many clemencies and commutations, cited Clemmons' youth. Clemmons later violated his parole, was returned to prison and released in 2004.



2009-11-30 9:58 AM
in reply to: #2535480

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Subject: RE: 4 police officers killed, a major failure of the criminal justice system

There are a lot of things I like about Huckabee, mostly from a fiscal conservative POV. If this is accurate and I'm assuming it is I have two thoughts, 1. He should carry a significant amount of the responsibility for what that POS has done since he pardoned him 2. He should NOT run for any public office in the future. 3. He should contribute a large amount of $$$ to the fallen officers family.

My hearfelt thoughts go out to the families, friends and co-workers of the fallen officers.

Thanks for sharing this info.

2009-11-30 10:05 AM
in reply to: #2535700

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Subject: RE: 4 police officers killed, a major failure of the criminal justice system
The reality is that the guy went back to prison after Huckabee pardoned him because he violated his parole. Maybe his life would have been different had he be forced to serve the entirety of his first sentence, but maybe he would have done something worse. I would not hold Huckabee responsible for this latest atrocity after pardoning him so long ago. I would question why the guy was back on the streets after so much violence afterwards.
2009-11-30 10:26 AM
in reply to: #2535480

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Subject: RE: 4 police officers killed, a major failure of the criminal justice system
dodgersmom - 2009-11-30 7:17 AM

This never shold have happened:

Clemmons has an extensive violent criminal history from Arkansas. He also recently was arrested and charged in Washington state for assaulting a police officer, and second-degree rape of a child. Using a bail bondsman, he posted $150,000 — only $15,000 of his own money — and was released from jail last week.

Documents related to the pending charges in Washington state indicate an unstable and volatile personality. In one instance, he is accused of punching a sheriff's deputy in the face, The Seattle Times reported. In another, he is accused of gathering his wife and young relatives and forcing them to undress, according to a Pierce County sheriff's report.

"The whole time Clemmons kept saying things like trust him, the world is going to end soon, and that he was Jesus," the report said.

In 1989, Clemmons, then 17, was convicted in Little Rock for aggravated robbery. He was paroled in 2000 after Huckabee commuted a 95-year prison sentence. Huckabee, who was criticized during his run for the Republican presidential nomination in 2008 for granting many clemencies and commutations, cited Clemmons' youth. Clemmons later violated his parole, was returned to prison and released in 2004.



I agree this is horrible, and hindsight is 20/20, but for every story like this, there are 100s of thousands of stories where an outcome like this didn't happen.

RIP officers. (This from a person who can't stand Huckabee).
2009-11-30 10:34 AM
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Subject: RE: 4 police officers killed, a major failure of the criminal justice system

eberulf - 2009-11-30 10:05 AM The reality is that the guy went back to prison after Huckabee pardoned him because he violated his parole. Maybe his life would have been different had he be forced to serve the entirety of his first sentence, but maybe he would have done something worse. I would not hold Huckabee responsible for this latest atrocity after pardoning him so long ago. I would question why the guy was back on the streets after so much violence afterwards.

He wasn't released by Huckabee.  His sentence was commuted (on the reccomendation of the parole board to Huckabee), which made him eligible for parole.  He then had to convince a parole board he was not a danger to get paroled.  He violated the parole, and was taken back to jail, but was not prosecuted on the charges that would have kept him there, so he was once again released.

While I think Huckabee will end up bearing the brunt of this, I think this is more a failure at multiple levels than something to pin on one person alone.

The deaths of the officers in Washington is tragic, and I hope that justice will finally be served upon Clemmons, if he is the shooter responsible ( and it certainly appears that way at this time ).

2009-11-30 12:00 PM
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2009-11-30 12:03 PM
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Subject: RE: 4 police officers killed, a major failure of the criminal justice system
If this is the Rapture, I want a refund.
2009-11-30 12:27 PM
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Subject: RE: 4 police officers killed, a major failure of the criminal justice system
AcesFull - 2009-11-30 12:00 PM

Choosing which of those hundreds of thousands will end up killing police officers and which will not is beyond our current ability. 



Even when someone has an extensive violent criminal past?
That's the part that gets me. It wasn't one or two or three strikes. It was multiple, violent, criminal activity.

2009-11-30 12:38 PM
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2009-11-30 2:09 PM
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Subject: RE: 4 police officers killed, a major failure of the criminal justice system
AcesFull - 2009-11-30 12:38 PM

lisac957 - 2009-11-30 12:27 PM
AcesFull - 2009-11-30 12:00 PM

Choosing which of those hundreds of thousands will end up killing police officers and which will not is beyond our current ability. 



Even when someone has an extensive violent criminal past?
That's the part that gets me. It wasn't one or two or three strikes. It was multiple, violent, criminal activity.

Again, not at all uncommon.  Many, many criminals have these types of histories, and multiple police murders are, fortunately, relatively rare.  Choosing which of the hundreds of thousands of guys who look like this guy is beyond our capacity at this time. 

It is nice to think that we could somehow have prevented this through due diligence and screening, but that just isn't possible.  Sure, we could lock everyone up, in perpetuity, but the expense of doing so (borne in higher taxes which, as is often noted in COJ and elsewhere is stifling to the economy) is prohibitive.  As California is discovering, prisons and "three strikes" laws are very expensive. 




Could be cheaper if law libraries, rec. rooms, a/c, television, art classes, etc. were not provided and if inmates were required to work.  Joe Arpino seems to be able to house inmates at a cost far cheaper than most.  Perhaps California and other states should take note.
2009-11-30 2:14 PM
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2009-11-30 3:06 PM
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Subject: RE: 4 police officers killed, a major failure of the criminal justice system

I find this story just terrifying.  My husband became a full time officer this year.....it's so scary to think he could be targeted just because of the uniform he wears.

I remember not long ago I was driving through town and saw that he had someone pulled over.  Just as I was passing, I noticed that he put his hand on the back of the person's car before he approached the driver.  I asked him later why he did this and his response was that in the academy, they teach them to put their fingerprints on the car to prove that they had contact with the vehicle in case anything happened to them.  (as in a shooting, for example)

I know that the likeyhood is low, but that fact that it's there bothers me still.  I hope I can get more used to it as time goes on.

My thoughts to those families that were affected by this.

 

2009-12-01 8:11 AM
in reply to: #2535480

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Subject: RE: 4 police officers killed, a major failure of the criminal justice system
Problem solved.  Police found him and solved any further issues of cost to the goverment.  Good on them!
2009-12-01 3:08 PM
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2009-12-01 7:36 PM
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Subject: RE: 4 police officers killed, a major failure of the criminal justice system
2009-12-01 7:59 PM
in reply to: #2535480

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Subject: RE: 4 police officers killed, a major failure of the criminal justice system
Acesfull, thanks for your your valuable insight into this. Too many people often  think they have all the answers and have no idea what the question en tales.


2009-12-01 8:47 PM
in reply to: #2535716

Subject: RE: 4 police officers killed, a major failure of the criminal justice system

eberulf - 2009-11-30 8:05 AM The reality is that the guy went back to prison after Huckabee pardoned him because he violated his parole. Maybe his life would have been different had he be forced to serve the entirety of his first sentence, but maybe he would have done something worse. I would not hold Huckabee responsible for this latest atrocity after pardoning him so long ago. I would question why the guy was back on the streets after so much violence afterwards.

After hearing more details of what Huckabee did and events between then and now I don't feel Huck is as much responsibility as I first thought or stated. It does appear that a lot of opportunites to confine this POS were missed or miss managed.

I think the world is a better place this evening than it was last night.

To all of the Law enforcement personell and their famalies, thanks and be safe.

2009-12-01 8:57 PM
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Subject: RE: 4 police officers killed, a major failure of the criminal justice system
I just hope the perp was in terrible pain with his gut shot and duct tape bandage.
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