General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts. Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 2
 
 
2009-12-06 9:56 PM

User image

Veteran
210
100100
Subject: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
Just bought this book hoping to improve the quality of my nutrition. What is everyone else's take on this? My first impression is $$$$$$$$$.


2009-12-06 10:13 PM
in reply to: #2545621

User image

Master
1473
10001001001001002525
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.

Check this thread out.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=154824&posts=154&start=

2009-12-07 2:05 AM
in reply to: #2545621

User image

Champion
5781
5000500100100252525
Northridge, California
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
Without reading the thread linked in the comment above...but having looked extensively at the "Paleo" (aka "Caveman") diet in the past...IMO, it's not any better or worse than other fad diets for athletes or anyone else.  It's low-fat, high-protein...so that's pretty much okay for athletes.  Not going to kill ya to try it out and might be helpful in some respects.

But anyone choosing it because they think it is "what humans are meant to eat" (which is what I was researching when I stumbled across it) are mostly kidding themselves.  It has only a fair bit to do with what anthropologists, evolutionary biologists, and geneticists think they know about actual Paleolithic human diet.  Much, much, higher fat in the meat Paleolithic people ate than the "Paleo Diet" admits (our ancestors...like most mammals...had to store up calories for lean periods and fat is the way to go).  And there is, in fact, evidence of grain consumption among Paleolithic peoples...though likely mostly as a food of last resort.

But the biggest issue is that we aren't Paleolithic humans any more and haven't been for more than 10,000 years...there have been recent significant advances in understanding the speed of human evolution and we change much faster than the old conventional wisdom (that humans had so mastered their environments that there was little pressure to adapt...not the case it turns out) would have it.  Most human beings today descend from a population that evolved very rapidly to incorporate both grain and dairy in their diets...the now-widespread mutations that allow for that didn't exist in Paleolithic populations but are ubiquitous among modern Westerners.  There's no good reason for most (non-lactose- or -gluten-intolerant) people to go out of their way to avoid those sources of useful carbs and protein.

All of that doesn't address the larger issue:  Paleo Diet isn't sustainable for large (non-hunter/gatherer band) populations...doesn't provide enough calories per square mile compared with agricultural use of land (esp. if measured against calories expended to gain those calories).  Agriculture obviously has its own issues, but it is what has allowed for the population we now have.  Individuals can certainly experiment with a "Caveman" diet, but for the human species as a whole, that ship has basically sailed.
2009-12-07 7:23 AM
in reply to: #2545621

User image

Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
I'm glad it came out. I started with the Atkins diet and lost about 50 pounds but didn't know where to go from there and I do know that carbs, aside from working out, are my downfall. Before I got the book I ended up on a "carbs right before, during and immediately following workouts only" and keeping it 50-75 Grams of carbs the rest of the day. That works great for me to maintain.

This book, the Atkins, South Beach, etc are good starting points but they will not tell you what YOUR BODY needs after the initial drop in weight. Use them as guidelines but not as gospel.

Oh, I'm 43 and I've found that just about everyone who is terribly adamant against low carb diets tend to be 35 and under. All that talk for what a 30 year old can and cannot eat has nothing to do with what a person whose carb switch is already thrown can and cannot eat. I think it's amusing to see the younger people demand their diet is the one true diet and all these lower carb diets are horrible and then watch when they hit about 40 and can no longer sustain that without porking up beyond belief
2009-12-07 7:50 AM
in reply to: #2545771

User image

Extreme Veteran
417
100100100100
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.

No comment on the Paleo diet but like Daniel, I've had good success on the Atkins.  I'm 41 and about 18 months ago I lost 35lbs over 3 months with a no/low carb diet and walking an hour a day, that's it.  I lost the weight, started running about 6 months later and I've since completed 2 marathons and eat whatever I want.

I do want to lose about 10 more lbs so I plan to do South Beach Phase 1 for 2 weeks here in a month or two (once P90X is completed).  The downside is that I won't have the energy to do any cardio but walking but I should be able to keep the strength training up.

2009-12-07 12:10 PM
in reply to: #2545621

User image

Expert
1187
1000100252525
Ontario
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
I read the book recently.. it's not a plan for me.  
I suggest you check out 'the eat clean diet'... not a 'diet' as such but a lifestyle eating plan that emphasizes lean protien, whole grains and complex carbs along with healthy fats.   To me a much more realistic way of eating as I love my grains.


2009-12-07 1:08 PM
in reply to: #2545621

User image

Regular
96
252525
Westborough, MA
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
+1 on what DanielG said. It's good to see a few other low carbers coming out. I started on Atkins and have modified it over time to suit my needs and lifestyle. I'm still experimenting to find the best diet for my endurance activities.

As we get older, carbs affect us more and more, and not in a positive way (I'm 41). While I have nothing against carbs, I think the refined ones do the most damage. Lately I've been getting most of my carbs from uncooked salads and I had a really great 9 mile run yesterday.

Keep us posted on your findings.


2009-12-07 1:15 PM
in reply to: #2545771

User image

Master
1853
10005001001001002525
syracuse
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
DanielG - 2009-12-07 8:23 AM I'm glad it came out. I started with the Atkins diet and lost about 50 pounds but didn't know where to go from there and I do know that carbs, aside from working out, are my downfall. Before I got the book I ended up on a "carbs right before, during and immediately following workouts only" and keeping it 50-75 Grams of carbs the rest of the day. That works great for me to maintain. This book, the Atkins, South Beach, etc are good starting points but they will not tell you what YOUR BODY needs after the initial drop in weight. Use them as guidelines but not as gospel. Oh, I'm 43 and I've found that just about everyone who is terribly adamant against low carb diets tend to be 35 and under. All that talk for what a 30 year old can and cannot eat has nothing to do with what a person whose carb switch is already thrown can and cannot eat. I think it's amusing to see the younger people demand their diet is the one true diet and all these lower carb diets are horrible and then watch when they hit about 40 and can no longer sustain that without porking up beyond belief


when you say "low carb diets" do you in fact mean "low carbs" or "low bread/starch/grain?"

I find it hard to beleive that if you ate brocolli, spinnach, apples, , black beans, and other fruits/veggies/beans that are far from "low carb" all day long you would "pork up beyond belief"
2009-12-07 1:16 PM
in reply to: #2546468

User image

Master
1853
10005001001001002525
syracuse
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
ab1ht - 2009-12-07 2:08 PM +1 on what DanielG said. It's good to see a few other low carbers coming out. I started on Atkins and have modified it over time to suit my needs and lifestyle. I'm still experimenting to find the best diet for my endurance activities.

As we get older, carbs affect us more and more, and not in a positive way (I'm 41). While I have nothing against carbs, I think the refined ones do the most damage. Lately I've been getting most of my carbs from uncooked salads and I had a really great 9 mile run yesterday.

Keep us posted on your findings.




The Paleo diet is a low carb diet?
2009-12-07 1:17 PM
in reply to: #2545771

User image

Master
2380
2000100100100252525
Beijing
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
DanielG - 2009-12-06 8:23 AM  This book, the Atkins, South Beach, etc are good starting points but they will not tell you what YOUR BODY needs after the initial drop in weight. Use them as guidelines but not as gospel.


I lost about 40 lbs on South Beach, without any exercise to speak of.  I wish that they wouldn't call it a "diet" because of all the baggage that comes with that word.   Overall, I think it does a good job of phasing you back to a sustainable way of eating.   I've got about another 20-25 pounds to go before I'm a fairly lean 170-175.   The book also gives fairly good, simple explanations of how simple sugars/carbs affect your body, and good ways to avoid/mitigate them.  
2009-12-07 1:22 PM
in reply to: #2545621

User image

Extreme Veteran
418
100100100100
Pittsburgh
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
I know several people (mostly from the Internet) who have had great results with the paleo diet. (Most of them are powerlifters, not endurance athletes, but that is quite possibly due to my skewed sampling methodology.)

I don't think the paleo diet would work for me -- for one thing, it's too expensive for me to be able to follow this diet while eating foods I enjoy, and for another thing, if I drop my carb intake too low, my performance suffers on long runs and rides. However, I'm 26.

I think that nutritionally, the paleo diet is probably no worse than any other trendy diet, and a lot better than most, given its emphasis on lean protein and whole foods. Given that the genetic diversity of humans is much greater than that of, say, lab rats, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that this diet works really well for a subset of the human population. But, at the same time, I'm skeptical of the rationale that this is how humans as a species are supposed to eat, for evolutionary reasons previously mentioned (i.e. massive selective pressure to digest grains and dairy at the dawn of agriculture).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that people probably shouldn't live their entire lives by trying to follow someone else's one-size-fits-all system. It doesn't matter whether it's training, nutrition, or whatever -- the point of us being individuals is that we are all different (which is a good thing, otherwise we'd die out), and no one system is going to work for any of us. Of course, certain systems aren't going to work for anybody -- just look at how well the "sit on the couch watching football while chowing down on refined starches and trans fat" program is working for America -- but as long as you're within a certain set of parameters (like mostly eating food that recognizably came from something that was once alive), finding the best nutritional plan for any given athlete will come down to that athlete's unique physiological needs, body chemistry, and preferences (nobody's going to follow a diet made of foods they can't stand).



2009-12-07 1:23 PM
in reply to: #2545621

User image

Champion
9600
500020002000500100
Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
Carbohydrates ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. Peoples lack of impulse control when it comes to the consumption of specific, high glycemic carbohydrates is.
2009-12-07 1:33 PM
in reply to: #2546513

User image

Extreme Veteran
418
100100100100
Pittsburgh
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
bryancd - 2009-12-07 2:23 PMCarbohydrates ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. Peoples lack of impulse control when it comes to the consumption of specific, high glycemic carbohydrates is.
But.... but.... but... high-glycemic carbohydrates are so TASTY, especially when mixed with chocolate! :D
2009-12-07 1:34 PM
in reply to: #2546333

User image

Veteran
294
100100252525
Papillion, NE
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
cathyd - 2009-12-07 12:10 PM I read the book recently.. it's not a plan for me.  
I suggest you check out 'the eat clean diet'... not a 'diet' as such but a lifestyle eating plan that emphasizes lean protien, whole grains and complex carbs along with healthy fats.   To me a much more realistic way of eating as I love my grains.


This is the best advice yet.
2009-12-07 1:41 PM
in reply to: #2546513

User image

Master
2380
2000100100100252525
Beijing
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
bryancd - 2009-12-06 2:23 PM Carbohydrates ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. Peoples lack of impulse control when it comes to the consumption of specific, high glycemic carbohydrates is.


yes..... and no.  

And by "no" I mean:   Finding foods that don't have "-ose" (glucose/sucrose/fructose) or "enriched" as part of the first 3 ingredients can be expensive and/or difficult. 

And by "yes" I mean: You are correct 90% of the time.
2009-12-07 1:46 PM
in reply to: #2546548

User image

Champion
9600
500020002000500100
Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
moondawg14 - 2009-12-07 1:41 PM

bryancd - 2009-12-06 2:23 PM Carbohydrates ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. Peoples lack of impulse control when it comes to the consumption of specific, high glycemic carbohydrates is.


yes..... and no.  

And by "no" I mean:   Finding foods that don't have "-ose" (glucose/sucrose/fructose) or "enriched" as part of the first 3 ingredients can be expensive and/or difficult. 

And by "yes" I mean: You are correct 90% of the time.


Expensive, maybe, but difficult, no. They are all around the outside edges of your local supermarket. And still, the presence of a "-ose" in and of itself isn't the issue, it's how much of them one eats, and that is a CHOICE. Pay now for better quality food or pay later in expensive health bills, another CHOICE.

Edited by bryancd 2009-12-07 1:47 PM


2009-12-07 1:52 PM
in reply to: #2546548

User image

Runner
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.

moondawg14 - 2009-12-07 2:41 PM 

   Finding foods that don't have "-ose" (glucose/sucrose/fructose)

Ummmm...glucose is pretty important in cell biology.  In fact, I think that's what cells use for energy.

Fructose is naturally occuring.

Sucrose is what is found in many fruits, and honey.

2009-12-07 1:54 PM
in reply to: #2546513

User image

Coach
10487
50005000100100100100252525
Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
bryancd - 2009-12-07 1:23 PM Carbohydrates ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. Peoples lack of impulse control when it comes to the consumption of specific, high glycemic carbohydrates is.
amen!

It shouldn't be that complicated - cosume lean protein, good fats and choose comple carbs (or low glycemic) and limit simple carbs (or high glycemic) during or after training/racing; try to eat whole foods as much as possible and don't over do it!
2009-12-07 1:57 PM
in reply to: #2546548

User image

Coach
10487
50005000100100100100252525
Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
moondawg14 - 2009-12-07 1:41 PM
bryancd - 2009-12-06 2:23 PM Carbohydrates ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. Peoples lack of impulse control when it comes to the consumption of specific, high glycemic carbohydrates is.


yes..... and no.  

And by "no" I mean:   Finding foods that don't have "-ose" (glucose/sucrose/fructose) or "enriched" as part of the first 3 ingredients can be expensive and/or difficult. 

And by "yes" I mean: You are correct 90% of the time.


I personally love all foods that have "-ose" during and right after training. Those are great sources for fueling and as post-training recovery meals.
2009-12-07 1:59 PM
in reply to: #2545621

User image

Extreme Veteran
465
1001001001002525
Atlanta, GA
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
I am on a pseudo paleo diet. It's actually pretty simple:Eat lean meats, veggies, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar. That's pretty much it. I do throw some grains in every once in a while but when I do, they are whole grains.I don't consider it a diet, it's just a way of eating. Eat good wholesome food and avoid all the processed crap that is out there.
2009-12-07 2:47 PM
in reply to: #2546579

User image

Master
2380
2000100100100252525
Beijing
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
Scout7 - 2009-12-06 2:52 PM

moondawg14 - 2009-12-07 2:41 PM 

   Finding foods that don't have "-ose" (glucose/sucrose/fructose)

Ummmm...glucose is pretty important in cell biology.  In fact, I think that's what cells use for energy.

Fructose is naturally occuring.

Sucrose is what is found in many fruits, and honey.



Yeah, I know.  And when it's naturally occurring in the food you're eating, it's not called out on the label. (generally)   The problem is the "ose-s" show up in foods where they don't really need to be, so you have to watch labels like a hawk to avoid ADDED sugar. 

And Bryan, I'm glad you can afford whole foods.  Frankly, I can too, at the expense of other things.  There are alot of people out there that can't... and it's NOT a choice.  


2009-12-07 3:11 PM
in reply to: #2546513

User image

Regular
96
252525
Westborough, MA
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
bryancd - 2009-12-07 1:23 PM Carbohydrates ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. Peoples lack of impulse control when it comes to the consumption of specific, high glycemic carbohydrates is.


With all due respect, this sounds as if you're saying that if a person can't control food cravings, it must be a personal flaw; as if they're simply weak-minded and/or mentally inferior. I'm not sure if that's what you meant.

Sugar addiction is very real
; it's not simply a mental / will power issue. For many, eating low carb is the only way to control blood sugar levels and, in turn, their cravings for sweets. Speaking from personal experience, I used to crave "junk" foods (cookies, chips, pasta, etc.). When I eliminated the junk carbs from my diet, the cravings went away.

To be clear, I don't think anyone (i.e. low carbers) are saying that carbs are bad. In fact, I think we're saying the same thing: The carbs that we eat should be good quality and not spike our blood sugar. The amount of blood sugar spike that a food creates will vary from person to person. Younger folks tend to handle it better than the older folks.

2009-12-07 3:33 PM
in reply to: #2546486

User image

Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
cusetri - 2009-12-07 2:15 PM

when you say "low carb diets" do you in fact mean "low carbs" or "low bread/starch/grain?"

I find it hard to beleive that if you ate brocolli, spinnach, apples, , black beans, and other fruits/veggies/beans that are far from "low carb" all day long you would "pork up beyond belief"


No, I mean low carbs. Yes, I mean 50-75 grams carbs total. I don't eat brocolli, spinnach, apples, black beans, etc. Yes, I gain weight as soon as I break about 100 grams of carbs a day, with the exception of my about 300ish calories an hour during 4+ hour workouts.

You're welcome to find it hard to believe all you want. I've been weighing, measuring, exercising and trying to find a damn way to maintain or lose and that's what I've found works.
2009-12-07 3:37 PM
in reply to: #2546513

User image

Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
bryancd - 2009-12-07 2:23 PM

Carbohydrates ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. Peoples lack of impulse control when it comes to the consumption of specific, high glycemic carbohydrates is.


You believe what you want and suggest what you want. I've been trying to work on this for literally years and I've found that yes, carbs are the problem. I do believe if you've not hit 40+ and been overweight you may very well never know what I'm talking about. That's fine and I hope you never do.
2009-12-07 4:00 PM
in reply to: #2546805

User image

Champion
9600
500020002000500100
Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts.
ab1ht - 2009-12-07 3:11 PM

bryancd - 2009-12-07 1:23 PM Carbohydrates ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. Peoples lack of impulse control when it comes to the consumption of specific, high glycemic carbohydrates is.


With all due respect, this sounds as if you're saying that if a person can't control food cravings, it must be a personal flaw; as if they're simply weak-minded and/or mentally inferior. I'm not sure if that's what you meant.

Sugar addiction is very real
; it's not simply a mental / will power issue. For many, eating low carb is the only way to control blood sugar levels and, in turn, their cravings for sweets. Speaking from personal experience, I used to crave "junk" foods (cookies, chips, pasta, etc.). When I eliminated the junk carbs from my diet, the cravings went away.

To be clear, I don't think anyone (i.e. low carbers) are saying that carbs are bad. In fact, I think we're saying the same thing: The carbs that we eat should be good quality and not spike our blood sugar. The amount of blood sugar spike that a food creates will vary from person to person. Younger folks tend to handle it better than the older folks.



Addiction is an extreme form of impulse control, it's the complete lack of it, so we are talking about the same thing, just differing degrees.

And sometimes people due suffer from issue's of will power, not weak minded.

Edited by bryancd 2009-12-07 4:09 PM
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Paleo Diet for Athletes...Your Thoughts. Rss Feed  
 
 
of 2