General Discussion Triathlon Talk » IM and HIM power pacing: which %FT? Rss Feed  
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2009-12-08 3:18 AM

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Expert
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Subject: IM and HIM power pacing: which %FT?
Which %FT in power I should assume on pacing IM and HIM races?
Do you have any online reference?


2009-12-08 11:24 PM
in reply to: #2547417

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Champion
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Subject: RE: IM and HIM power pacing: which %FT?
I'm curious what others share...one key is to make sure you have your FTP set correctly.
2009-12-09 9:50 AM
in reply to: #2547417

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Master
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Subject: RE: IM and HIM power pacing: which %FT?
I have heard between 78-85% of your FTP for a 1/2 IM and this seems in line with my results. When I was over 85% I had a horrible start to my run, when I was just over 80% I felt good starting the run.

I have not raced an IM with pwr but think I remember hearing that 65-75% of FTP is the general rule.

These are dependant on fitness and speed - the sub 5 hour IM biker might be able to go 75% because he or she only needs to hold the 75% for 5 hours, the 7 hour biker would likely do better at a lower percent because he or she will need to hold that percentage for 7 hours.
2009-12-09 10:03 AM
in reply to: #2547417

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over a barrier
Subject: RE: IM and HIM power pacing: which %FT?
You need to start with an estimated bike split, make sure its realistic. An Athlete that is splitting 3 hrs rides at a lower % than an athlete splitting 2:20. TSS is the range 169 -180 should net a solid run anything over 180 TSS you start playing with fire. The range of %FTP would be 75% - 85%,


IM rides with TSS in the 270-290 produce solid runs. You start seeing TSS over 300 and you're in for a long run and the IM shuffle or you better be one heck of a runner. Generally 67 - 78% will be good safe % depending on how long you'll be on the course.

IMO, and I don't have the data to back it up put anything over 6:45 on the bike split you're going to suffer on the run no matter what, just because you've been out there so long.

All the numbers don't amount to a hill of beans if you're FTP is not accurate though. And don't spike your watts



2009-12-09 10:57 AM
in reply to: #2547417

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Coach
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Subject: RE: IM and HIM power pacing: which %FT?
It really is not as simple as saying at what % of FTP to pace as what might be beneficial for me might be the wrong 5 for you. In tri racing you also have to consider your swim AND run fitness in the equation which further complicates the answer. In general I can tell you that:

for strong athletes:
sub 5:30 hrs IM - 80-85% of FTP
sib 10:30 hrs IM - 70-75% of FTP

others
HIM - < 80% of FTP
IM - < 70% of FTP

You can to consider how long you'll be on the course, the longer it takes you to ride 56 or 112 miles the lower your IF will be. Also, how strong of a cyclist/runner are you? a stronger cyclist might be able to ride a bit higher IF and have a solid run while a stronger runner might need a lower IF for a solid run.

Some people have suggested using TSS as a way to know what IF (% of FTP) you can expect racing at based on your current fitness however I am not convinced it is the best approach. There seems to be a strong correlation for certain group of athletes, still at the pointy end of of the filed or at the back this TSS pacing strategy falls apart. There are AGers racing 14+ hrs for IM which will have a TSS higher of 300 just by the time they spent on the course, yet they've paced at the right IF for their given fitness level and still posting solid runs for them.

Based on your fitness and goals I would do some of my long rides at 'x' or 'y' IF and do some transition runs to see how well or not I feel. I would pick certain IF for race rehearsals and see what happens. I would collect all the data from all rides (short, long, hard, slow) during the season and take a look at your power curve from all ride around the distance/duration of what you expect to be on the race for the last 6-8 weeks of training prior your main race. You then should have a clear picture as to what IF range you can expect to race at given fitness, weather, topography, etc.
2009-12-09 2:56 PM
in reply to: #2550401

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Expert
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Zürich, Switzerland
Subject: RE: IM and HIM power pacing: which %FT?
JorgeM - 2009-12-08 5:57 PM It really is not as simple as saying at what % of FTP to pace as what might be beneficial for me might be the wrong 5 for you. In tri racing you also have to consider your swim AND run fitness in the equation which further complicates the answer. In general I can tell you that:

for strong athletes:
sub 5:30 hrs IM - 80-85% of FTP
sib 10:30 hrs IM - 70-75% of FTP

others
HIM - < 80% of FTP
IM - < 70% of FTP

You can to consider how long you'll be on the course, the longer it takes you to ride 56 or 112 miles the lower your IF will be. Also, how strong of a cyclist/runner are you? a stronger cyclist might be able to ride a bit higher IF and have a solid run while a stronger runner might need a lower IF for a solid run.

Some people have suggested using TSS as a way to know what IF (% of FTP) you can expect racing at based on your current fitness however I am not convinced it is the best approach. There seems to be a strong correlation for certain group of athletes, still at the pointy end of of the filed or at the back this TSS pacing strategy falls apart. There are AGers racing 14+ hrs for IM which will have a TSS higher of 300 just by the time they spent on the course, yet they've paced at the right IF for their given fitness level and still posting solid runs for them.

Based on your fitness and goals I would do some of my long rides at 'x' or 'y' IF and do some transition runs to see how well or not I feel. I would pick certain IF for race rehearsals and see what happens. I would collect all the data from all rides (short, long, hard, slow) during the season and take a look at your power curve from all ride around the distance/duration of what you expect to be on the race for the last 6-8 weeks of training prior your main race. You then should have a clear picture as to what IF range you can expect to race at given fitness, weather, topography, etc.


Excellent answer. At the moment, early season, I would like to know this to start pacing my long rides at IM pacing so I would set between 70-75% as you suggest since I target 5h00' for the bike portion of IM Zurich (challenging but possible). This is because I think that (best case) the IM marathon can be run at my long runs pace and it should be a good starting point pacing the long rides with the IM bike race pace. This is what I think at the moment.
Basically High Zone 2 for IM and Low Zone 3 for HIM according to your suggestions.


2009-12-10 1:55 PM
in reply to: #2547417

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Elite
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Subject: RE: IM and HIM power pacing: which %FT?
i also wonder if we should use normalized vs avg watts...

in 09 my ftp has been anywhere from 308-324 (lets split the difference for %)

for philly OLY 1:08 split (2:20) i did  275 (87%) but about 295 (93%) norm
for augusta HIM 230 split (4:50) 255 (81% ) but 275 (87%)  norm
for IMAZ 5:30 split (11:14) 210 (66%) but 220 (70%) norm

2009-12-10 2:24 PM
in reply to: #2552916

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Coach
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Subject: RE: IM and HIM power pacing: which %FT?
phatknot - 2009-12-10 1:55 PM i also wonder if we should use normalized vs avg watts...

in 09 my ftp has been anywhere from 308-324 (lets split the difference for %)

for philly OLY 1:08 split (2:20) i did  275 (87%) but about 295 (93%) norm
for augusta HIM 230 split (4:50) 255 (81% ) but 275 (87%)  norm
for IMAZ 5:30 split (11:14) 210 (66%) but 220 (70%) norm



Avg watts -  If your VI (NP/AP) is significant then you are doing a poor job pacing wise (i.e. spiking power on the hills) leaving some run speed on the bike.

Of course the shorter the distance the less important VI becomes but for HIM and IM the tighter your VI then most likley the better you'll be able to run. 

August 70.3 - VI 1.07 - *I* would say you left some runnning speed on the bike
IMAZ - VI 1.04 - *I* would say for that course the VI could have been tighter but still within reasonable variance range.

You can analyze your power files to pick this up and work towards improving that.

Edited by JorgeM 2009-12-10 2:25 PM
2009-12-10 2:52 PM
in reply to: #2552977

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Elite
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Subject: RE: IM and HIM power pacing: which %FT?
thats what i am hoping shanks will sort me out with this year. that racing phool is gonna max my azz out in 2010 if it kills me!
2009-12-10 5:42 PM
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2009-12-11 6:19 AM
in reply to: #2553285

Elite
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Subject: RE: IM and HIM power pacing: which %FT?
as i recall, philly is a 3-4 looped course with a few sharp climbs (on each loop of course) that i hammered if that helps any. what kind of views would you be looking for?


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