How much Z4 should I have?

If it's a comfortable pace, it's likely not really Zone 4. How do you define Zone 4 and how did you establish it?

When was your last running threshold field test, and how did you establish your HR zones? (Sorry if you've already discussed this on the forum, I didn't go back too far).

I don't know how the algorithm works here on BT, but as you train, your zones may change, but the algorithm that shows you how much time you spent in each zone may not take the change into account. For example if your changed your Zones on Dec 1st, the november HR data may show time in zone based on the new zones. It would be great if we could clarify this...

My initial thought though is that if it truly feels "comfortable", then you rzones may be set too low.

If you live in a hilly area, even if you do an "easy" run, you're HR will climb on hills unless you deliberately walk.

As a direct answer to yoru question, however, How much Zone 4 should you have? You'll get a lot of different answers on that. The 'training bible' answer is none, but I think it's safe to have up to 20% of your training time in Zone 4 with running depending on your total run volume. More running necessitates less time in higher zones simply due to recovery time. Less run training may actually enable you to get away with more time in higher zones, but there is a definate balance. You don't want your trainingi time to be limited because you are training in zone 4 and need extra rest. That being said, if life circumstances and schedule prevent you from getting out to run much, then "running less and running faster" may be a good approach.

Every one is different, and you'll get otehr answers here too.

I established my LT at the end of Oct,, with another test scheduled in January.  Here are my zones based on my previous test, along with how much time I have spent in each zone since Nov 1.

Run 2009-11-01 HR/Pace label Range data label Cumulative Time in zone 1 - Recovery 122 - 157 46m 33s 2 - Extensive Endurance 158 - 168 1h 32m 57s 3 - Intensive Endurance 169 - 176 1h 31m 33s 4 - Sub-Threshold 178 - 184 1h 12m 19s 5a - SuperThreshold 185 - 189 44m 19s 5b - Anaerobic Endurance 190 - 195 20m 21s 5c - Power 196 - 205 24s

I live in East TN, it is pretty hilly around here.  Nothing too big, but lots of rolling ups and downs.

What kind of LT test did you do? Running in a true Zone 4 shouldn't be easy or even moderate, so clearly your zone 4 estimate is too low.

From the info you've given, I agree with Bryan.

There is no way you should have spent an hour in Zones 5a/b and not have puked many times.  That's a zone where you can sustain for 1-3 minutes before you break down.

Agree that maybe your field test was flawed, but if that's all the running you've done in two months (I'm counting ~ 6hours here, but even the ~19 hours/~120 miles shown in your logs show), I'd forget about Z4 until I've grabbed a whole lot more Z2.

Edited by the bear 2009-12-24 8:01 AM

The first rule of testing is to discard the first test and repeat it. No need to wait 4 months between tests. You can do it as often as every 4 weeks, but I think that 16 weeks is too long.

If I have an athlete that has a "bad" test and we really feel that the test result is interfering with establishing good training zones, I'll have them repeat it the next week, or depending on their fitness level, later t hat same week. If you are planning to base training off of heart rate or power zones, then it's really important that you're confident in those numbers.

The time spent above Z4 doesn't mean a lot in cumulative, b/c as another poster stated, you can only sustain your VO2 max effort for about 5-6 minutes at a time (Corresponding to roughly Friels HR Zone 5a/b). However because HR lags behind effort, the time spent in your HR zone 5a will be less than the time you actually spent performing at taht level...which means that cumulative time in Zones above 5 are actually underestimates of your true performance.

At the end of each workout, do you have sustained periods of longer than 3,5, 6 minutes in Zone 5a and above? If so, then your zones are clearly too low. Is the majority of your run in Zone 4 and are you still describing it as "comfortable?" then your zones are probably too low.

Do you have a flat or gradual steady grade where you can do yoru testing rather t han on the hilly areas near you? the key to getting a good LTHR Field test is having a steady flat or steady gradual grade in order to get a sustained performance at your threshold effort, rather than pushing hard uphill for 2-4 minute and trying to push it on the downhill where your HR will drop no matter how hard you try to keep it up.

This discussion just highlights the importance of not only trying to establish your training off of an objective measure, but also continuing to listen to your body and not just blindly follow the numbers.

So it's good that you are reviewing this data and asking questions...in the end you learn more about your body and about how it functions which is the best training tool you can master.

Yeah, my numbers HR times look goofy because, I was only recording Avg Hr until I got my Garmin, which explains the discrepancy between the graph and logs.  Sorry for the confusion.  I think I will retest as soon as the holdiays are over next week.  Thanks for the inputs all.

Merry Christmas