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2009-12-30 3:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
pitt83 - 2009-12-29 8:05 AM

mr2tony - 2009-12-29 9:55 AM

pitt83 - 2009-12-29 8:51 AM

I call bull $hit. Would you take it from your boss? Humilitaion? Abuse either physical or emotional? How would you feel being called out in a team setting then humiliated and told to "HTFU"? Barbaric and borderline illegal IMHO.


Did you EVER play team sports?


Yep. Swim team. Sure you were corrected and taught, but humiliation? Some. Did I like it: Never. Still carry a grudge against those who did it.

And jst because we've made transgressions against people in certain settings for the past 40+ years doesn't make it OK today. Lots of examples where society norms have improved. The pervasive culture of team sports should be a next evolution.

BTW: I'm out for a bit. Not stepping down from the discussion though: I opened the rats nest so should stay in it. Off to the LBS b/c my trainer flywheel broke


I know that in track, x-country, swimming, wrestling, etc. there are team points/awards given, but I don't really consider them to be team sports.

that aside, it is my **speculation** (and we are free to do that here, right?) that the player was whining excessively because he felt that he should or should not be doing "X" or "Y" at practice and the coach finally said fine "go sit in the dark and shut the hell up". he is not mistreating the player in a way that could cause direct injury to the player. he probably did hurt the kid's feelings and that was probably part of the intent. good for the coach, I say. Consider, if a player is misbehaving, or acting in a manner that is detrimental to the team, what can the coach do? Make him run laps, bench him? This kid couldn't be benched 'cause he gets relatively little playing time as is. Running laps would rightfully draw public ire given the recent head injury.

It seems like this was a punitive measure and I don't think it is necessarily a poor one.






2009-12-30 4:00 PM
in reply to: #2584819

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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
djluscher - 2009-12-30 3:35 PM

pitt83 - 2009-12-29 8:05 AM

mr2tony - 2009-12-29 9:55 AM

pitt83 - 2009-12-29 8:51 AM

I call bull $hit. Would you take it from your boss? Humilitaion? Abuse either physical or emotional? How would you feel being called out in a team setting then humiliated and told to "HTFU"? Barbaric and borderline illegal IMHO.


Did you EVER play team sports?


Yep. Swim team. Sure you were corrected and taught, but humiliation? Some. Did I like it: Never. Still carry a grudge against those who did it.

And jst because we've made transgressions against people in certain settings for the past 40+ years doesn't make it OK today. Lots of examples where society norms have improved. The pervasive culture of team sports should be a next evolution.

BTW: I'm out for a bit. Not stepping down from the discussion though: I opened the rats nest so should stay in it. Off to the LBS b/c my trainer flywheel broke


I know that in track, x-country, swimming, wrestling, etc. there are team points/awards given, but I don't really consider them to be team sports.

that aside, it is my **speculation** (and we are free to do that here, right?) that the player was whining excessively because he felt that he should or should not be doing "X" or "Y" at practice and the coach finally said fine "go sit in the dark and shut the hell up". he is not mistreating the player in a way that could cause direct injury to the player. he probably did hurt the kid's feelings and that was probably part of the intent. good for the coach, I say. Consider, if a player is misbehaving, or acting in a manner that is detrimental to the team, what can the coach do? Make him run laps, bench him? This kid couldn't be benched 'cause he gets relatively little playing time as is. Running laps would rightfully draw public ire given the recent head injury.

It seems like this was a punitive measure and I don't think it is necessarily a poor one.



I'm not sure having a kid sit in a closet for 3 hours is OK punishment, irrespective of whether he has a concussion. I'm sure the player was a prima donna and annoyed everyone. Suspend him from the team, kick him off the team, yank his scholarship, tell him if he doesn't shape up you'll do any of those things. All of those are more professional, and more humane, solutions to dealing with a punk player. You're right that running laps or some sort of extra practice, which would seem more appropriate, are out of the question given the concussion, but locking the kid in a closet as the next step was a bad decision.
2009-12-30 4:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
Also, I believe that part of being a coach is being a role model for young people. Irrespective of what you teach kids about the sport they're playing, the most valuable lessons are what you teach about dealing with adversity, working as a team, treating others, personal responsibility, etc. Leach isn't teaching anybody anything about how to be a dickhead with moves like this.
2009-12-30 4:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
I wonder what his teamates think. Could they boycott the bowl game in support of the coach. I'm sure the team is in shock to lose their leader this way, time will tell. Seems like theirs sports drama on a daily basis anymore!
2009-12-30 5:05 PM
in reply to: #2584871

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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
MLJ - 2009-12-30 3:00 PM
djluscher - 2009-12-30 3:35 PM
pitt83 - 2009-12-29 8:05 AM
mr2tony - 2009-12-29 9:55 AM
pitt83 - 2009-12-29 8:51 AM I call bull $hit. Would you take it from your boss? Humilitaion? Abuse either physical or emotional? How would you feel being called out in a team setting then humiliated and told to "HTFU"? Barbaric and borderline illegal IMHO.
Did you EVER play team sports?
Yep. Swim team. Sure you were corrected and taught, but humiliation? Some. Did I like it: Never. Still carry a grudge against those who did it. And jst because we've made transgressions against people in certain settings for the past 40+ years doesn't make it OK today. Lots of examples where society norms have improved. The pervasive culture of team sports should be a next evolution. BTW: I'm out for a bit. Not stepping down from the discussion though: I opened the rats nest so should stay in it. Off to the LBS b/c my trainer flywheel broke
I know that in track, x-country, swimming, wrestling, etc. there are team points/awards given, but I don't really consider them to be team sports. that aside, it is my **speculation** (and we are free to do that here, right?) that the player was whining excessively because he felt that he should or should not be doing "X" or "Y" at practice and the coach finally said fine "go sit in the dark and shut the hell up". he is not mistreating the player in a way that could cause direct injury to the player. he probably did hurt the kid's feelings and that was probably part of the intent. good for the coach, I say. Consider, if a player is misbehaving, or acting in a manner that is detrimental to the team, what can the coach do? Make him run laps, bench him? This kid couldn't be benched 'cause he gets relatively little playing time as is. Running laps would rightfully draw public ire given the recent head injury. It seems like this was a punitive measure and I don't think it is necessarily a poor one.
I'm not sure having a kid sit in a closet for 3 hours is OK punishment, irrespective of whether he has a concussion. I'm sure the player was a prima donna and annoyed everyone. Suspend him from the team, kick him off the team, yank his scholarship, tell him if he doesn't shape up you'll do any of those things. All of those are more professional, and more humane, solutions to dealing with a punk player. You're right that running laps or some sort of extra practice, which would seem more appropriate, are out of the question given the concussion, but locking the kid in a closet as the next step was a bad decision.


If you look around theres a video that shows the "closet". It is far from the closet and if my memory serves me it is in fact the post game interview room.
2009-12-30 5:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
i would NOT consider sitting in a room for 3 hours 'less humane' than basically any of the rest of those options. . . he easily could have went to sleep or something too.  .

I agree, that is it is a pansy thing to complain about. . IMO, he should have had a one on one with the coach first and expressed his concerns (unless he did that, which I'm sure if he did, he would have mentioned).  I think it is much more beneficial to talk to someone one on one about an issue then make it a big deal in front of a crowd (the country, in this case), even if the action was out of line.


2009-12-30 5:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
It was NOT a "closet". They show pictures of it on the news and it's larger than my bedroom!! This cannot be the reason Coach Leach was fired. This is perhaps an excuse to fire him, but this incident in a non-incident. I'm all for treating kids with respect and dignity, but this closet issue is not an example of extreme discipline (from everything I have heard being reported here in Lubbock on the local news). There is something more going on that we haven't heard about.

I'm going to miss the coach. If he is treating players inappropriately, I will be the first to support his dismissal. Until I hear such, I'm very suspicious of the motives.
2009-12-30 5:56 PM
in reply to: #2585057

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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
Here is the Video

After watching it my opinion is this is basically a witch hunt to get Leach fired. Why are none of the medical personal being condemned for this

Sending a player off to a large room to be monitored by medical personal checking on him every so often sounds like a good idea to me.  

the player was allowed to leave, lay down, drink water, was attended to, etc...

Is it just bad timing that he was do a 800k  bonus if he was the coach tomorrow??
2009-12-30 10:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
rayd - 2009-12-29 10:34 AM

mr2tony - 2009-12-29 8:14 AM
rayd - 2009-12-29 9:04 AM

"While signs of concussion can last for weeks to months, most people recover without any permanent damage. Repeated concussions should be avoided at all costs. If you return to sports too early, you risk suffering from "second impact syndrome." There is evidence that repeated head injuries over time (especially within 3 months of each other) can result in permanent brain damage and sometimes even death. After several concussions, most doctors will recommend that you considering changing sports or current activities."

Up until last year I guess I was one of those guys that thought as long as you are breathing just HTFU and don't be a wuss.  Then my son had two concussions in a 7-month period.  I learned to take concussions seriously.  Why risk permenent brain damage?  he's doing fine but we make sure he is wearing a helmet in most of activities.  We didn't let him ski or snowboard last year because we didn't want to risk another head injury.  Concussions really are serious business!

I agree. But I dont see how making him sit in a dark closet, if that's indeed what happened, is going to cause another concussion.

Agreed.  Sitting in the closet would not cause a concussion.  However, my understanding is that he was left alone in the closet for 3-hours.  If that's the case, that was wrong.  If he already had a concussion he could have blacked out with nobody there at the time to help him.  Seems unlikely but it could happen.  Then how would Leach explain that?




Leach got what he deserved, fired, effective immediately. 
Here's what should have happened. 
1-player gets concussion
2-medical staff rush to player
3-coach taps player on shoulder pads, "get better kid, these folks will take care of ya."
4-medical staff takes care of player
5-coach has a job.
2009-12-30 10:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
ChineseDemocracy - 2009-12-30 9:03 PM
rayd - 2009-12-29 10:34 AM

mr2tony - 2009-12-29 8:14 AM
rayd - 2009-12-29 9:04 AM

"While signs of concussion can last for weeks to months, most people recover without any permanent damage. Repeated concussions should be avoided at all costs. If you return to sports too early, you risk suffering from "second impact syndrome." There is evidence that repeated head injuries over time (especially within 3 months of each other) can result in permanent brain damage and sometimes even death. After several concussions, most doctors will recommend that you considering changing sports or current activities."

Up until last year I guess I was one of those guys that thought as long as you are breathing just HTFU and don't be a wuss.  Then my son had two concussions in a 7-month period.  I learned to take concussions seriously.  Why risk permenent brain damage?  he's doing fine but we make sure he is wearing a helmet in most of activities.  We didn't let him ski or snowboard last year because we didn't want to risk another head injury.  Concussions really are serious business!

I agree. But I dont see how making him sit in a dark closet, if that's indeed what happened, is going to cause another concussion.

Agreed.  Sitting in the closet would not cause a concussion.  However, my understanding is that he was left alone in the closet for 3-hours.  If that's the case, that was wrong.  If he already had a concussion he could have blacked out with nobody there at the time to help him.  Seems unlikely but it could happen.  Then how would Leach explain that?




Leach got what he deserved, fired, effective immediately. 
Here's what should have happened. 
1-player gets concussion
2-medical staff rush to player
3-coach taps player on shoulder pads, "get better kid, these folks will take care of ya."
4-medical staff takes care of player
5-coach has a job.


I was under the impression the concussion occurred several days before the "closet" event.
2009-12-30 10:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
JoshR - 2009-12-30 10:09 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2009-12-30 9:03 PM
rayd - 2009-12-29 10:34 AM

mr2tony - 2009-12-29 8:14 AM
rayd - 2009-12-29 9:04 AM

"While signs of concussion can last for weeks to months, most people recover without any permanent damage. Repeated concussions should be avoided at all costs. If you return to sports too early, you risk suffering from "second impact syndrome." There is evidence that repeated head injuries over time (especially within 3 months of each other) can result in permanent brain damage and sometimes even death. After several concussions, most doctors will recommend that you considering changing sports or current activities."

Up until last year I guess I was one of those guys that thought as long as you are breathing just HTFU and don't be a wuss.  Then my son had two concussions in a 7-month period.  I learned to take concussions seriously.  Why risk permenent brain damage?  he's doing fine but we make sure he is wearing a helmet in most of activities.  We didn't let him ski or snowboard last year because we didn't want to risk another head injury.  Concussions really are serious business!

I agree. But I dont see how making him sit in a dark closet, if that's indeed what happened, is going to cause another concussion.

Agreed.  Sitting in the closet would not cause a concussion.  However, my understanding is that he was left alone in the closet for 3-hours.  If that's the case, that was wrong.  If he already had a concussion he could have blacked out with nobody there at the time to help him.  Seems unlikely but it could happen.  Then how would Leach explain that?




Leach got what he deserved, fired, effective immediately. 
Here's what should have happened. 
1-player gets concussion
2-medical staff rush to player
3-coach taps player on shoulder pads, "get better kid, these folks will take care of ya."
4-medical staff takes care of player
5-coach has a job.


I was under the impression the concussion occurred several days before the "closet" event.


 It did,  His firing just sounds more justified the other way.  

the kid was checked before practice it was determined that he had some residual effects/complaints (elevated HR, light sensitivity) so the coach sent him off with medical supervision,  the trainers, to have him rest somewhere supervised.


2009-12-31 6:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
Gaarryy - 2009-12-30 11:41 PM
JoshR - 2009-12-30 10:09 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2009-12-30 9:03 PM
rayd - 2009-12-29 10:34 AM

mr2tony - 2009-12-29 8:14 AM
rayd - 2009-12-29 9:04 AM

"While signs of concussion can last for weeks to months, most people recover without any permanent damage. Repeated concussions should be avoided at all costs. If you return to sports too early, you risk suffering from "second impact syndrome." There is evidence that repeated head injuries over time (especially within 3 months of each other) can result in permanent brain damage and sometimes even death. After several concussions, most doctors will recommend that you considering changing sports or current activities."

Up until last year I guess I was one of those guys that thought as long as you are breathing just HTFU and don't be a wuss.  Then my son had two concussions in a 7-month period.  I learned to take concussions seriously.  Why risk permenent brain damage?  he's doing fine but we make sure he is wearing a helmet in most of activities.  We didn't let him ski or snowboard last year because we didn't want to risk another head injury.  Concussions really are serious business!

I agree. But I dont see how making him sit in a dark closet, if that's indeed what happened, is going to cause another concussion.

Agreed.  Sitting in the closet would not cause a concussion.  However, my understanding is that he was left alone in the closet for 3-hours.  If that's the case, that was wrong.  If he already had a concussion he could have blacked out with nobody there at the time to help him.  Seems unlikely but it could happen.  Then how would Leach explain that?




Leach got what he deserved, fired, effective immediately. 
Here's what should have happened. 
1-player gets concussion
2-medical staff rush to player
3-coach taps player on shoulder pads, "get better kid, these folks will take care of ya."
4-medical staff takes care of player
5-coach has a job.


I was under the impression the concussion occurred several days before the "closet" event.


 It did,  His firing just sounds more justified the other way.  

the kid was checked before practice it was determined that he had some residual effects/complaints (elevated HR, light sensitivity) so the coach sent him off with medical supervision,  the trainers, to have him rest somewhere supervised.



Gaarryy, if what you say is true, and the firing is completely unjustified (I have my doubts, but anyway) if that's true, he can sue Tech and use the settlement to buy his own university.  Something tells me he didn't get fired "effective immediately" without just cause.
2009-12-31 7:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach


I was under the impression the concussion occurred several days before the "closet" event.

 It did,  His firing just sounds more justified the other way.  

the kid was checked before practice it was determined that he had some residual effects/complaints (elevated HR, light sensitivity) so the coach sent him off with medical supervision,  the trainers, to have him rest somewhere supervised.



Gaarryy, if what you say is true, and the firing is completely unjustified (I have my doubts, but anyway) if that's true, he can sue Tech and use the settlement to buy his own university.  Something tells me he didn't get fired "effective immediately" without just cause.


 And that is what is going on right now.  People get fired all the time for lots of unjustified reasons.  You have to remember the relationship Leach had with the AD.  He was having a hearing about his suspension and before he gets the chance to defend himself gets canned.
Just a few of the documented things they were in disagreement about. or as some call it a long time feud,

The AD is a former Basketball coach that didn't was on record saying that he wished Tech was a Basketball school, not football.
They constistantly were at odds over the football schedule.
The AD actually was caught stopping Leach's mail from going out.
Leach went over his head (ignored him) when he renegotiated his contract last year
Leach was due a huge bonus (800k)if he was the coach on Jan 31st.  

If this was about a player being mistreated what is the reason that none of the medical staff that was watching the player have been fired, he was examined by the team doctor (who has said that Leach's "treatment" of him was helpful), and at least two medical trainers.

Did you by chance watch the video i posted  to see this alleged "shed" and "electrical closet"?

I think at the least Leach should have gotten equal TV time as ESPN's James did (the boy father) since he was comparing the "shed" to his son being waterboarded.

eta changed color and snippage


Edited by Gaarryy 2009-12-31 7:30 PM
2010-01-01 10:37 AM
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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
Interesting article in the NYT today. Leach places the blame pretty squarely on Craig James' shoulders. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/01/sports/ncaafootball/01leach.html?...

2010-01-01 12:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach

From CBS:

Another side to the Leach/Texas Tech story

Posted on: January 1, 2010 12:19 pm
Edited on: January 1, 2010 12:30 pm

Shame on Craig James.

Shame on ESPN.

Shame on Texas Tech.

If what Mike Leach said was true in the New York Times on Friday,then what we all thought two days ago is a mirage. Leach and other sources claim that the coach did not, in fact, mistreat Adam James. They say there was no "electrical closet" or "shed" as has been reported. They say there was no confinement. Leach is backed up by head trainer Steve Pincock and a team doctor.

Leach hasn’t spoken this candidly because he was busy suing the school. But now that it has fired him, the gloves are off. Most telling is the accusation that James leveraged his position as an ESPN analyst to get more playing time for his son.

I received two calls this week from people I trust saying the same thing. Big Daddy James had become a royal pain in the you-know-what. None of that should dismiss the assertion that Leach allegedly mistreated James' son. But if a court ultimately rules in favor of Leach in what is sure to be an unlawful termination suit brought by Leach, James' job could be in danger.

I thought from the beginning it was borderline unethical that friends and co-workers of James were reporting this story. It had that "railroad" smell to it from the beginning with James being portrayed as the protective parent.

There is definitely another side to this, a side that ESPN hasn’t reported until after the Times ran its story.  At the least, ESPN hasn’t balanced. Just throwing this out there but where was the Worldwide Leader’s info coming from – James, his son, maybe both? That’s OK if Craig James worked for Fox. It’s not OK if he drives a story in his favor with his employer.

Where the e-mails from former and current Texas Tech players and coaches that called into question Adam James’ character? I wrote that story earlier this week and provided copies of the e-mails in a blog. It’s not like the e-mails weren’t available. A source was more than willing to share them.

With Leach firing back, Texas Tech better check its bank account and ESPN should consider firing Craig James. First, he is now as radioactive as Leach in his own profession.  The rumor that James is considering a Senate run might have to be addressed. Free publicity, it would seem, for a future politician?

Also, what coach will want to talk to James in the future? Even if his son was mistreated by Leach, the allegation that has been badgering the Texas Tech staff will not go over well in the coaching profession.

As is usually the case, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle but let's look at this a different way. The fact that Leach would not "apologize" to the James family didn’t make sense from the beginning. If Adam’s treatment was so heinous, why would a simple apology make Big Daddy go away?

There are three sides of this story: Texas Tech's, Leach's and James'. I don’t know quite who to believe but I do know who has lost. The Phony Express, Big Daddy James.  



Edited by tmwelshy 2010-01-01 12:53 PM
2010-01-02 4:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
The more I read about this, the more I think Leach got canned because Tech was looking for a reason to can him & found a good enough excuse. It would be hilarious if Leach got his job back out of this.

p.s. Craig James is a douchenozzle.


2010-01-02 6:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
JBrashear - 2010-01-02 4:39 PM

It would be hilarious if Leach got his job back out of this.



Oh please, please, please, please, please!!!!!
2010-01-02 9:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Texas Tech Suspends Mike Leach
JBrashear - 2010-01-02 4:39 PM



p.s. Craig James is a douchenozzle.


And that's like 100X worse than the actual bag.


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