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Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture (Page 4)
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 2010-02-20 9:17 PM in reply to: #2683804 |
Extreme Veteran  310 |  Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the RaptureAndrewMT - 2010-02-20 4:31 PM Despite my honest desire to have an open discussion, I've given up talking to any religious person about their belief because it's a dead end street. I look forward to the day when I meet a person of any faith who is willing to have an open, honest and logical discussion. While there are many who get quite defensive, I find it hard to believe that you have been unable to find anyone. Most people of faith have had to ask themselves the hard questions. If they haven't, when life kicks them around hard enough, they will have to then. To me faith isn't totally real if it hasn't ever been tested or questioned. About the deathbed question: I had to think about what would I change in my life right now if I knew death was the end of me. Really not that much. I wouldn't suddenly become a raging alcoholic or something. Really, if it had no more meaning than that, at least church is a great social support system and people get great comfort from their beliefs. I don't really see the downside. |
| 2010-02-20 10:00 PM in reply to: #2684138 |
Extreme Veteran 1996    Halifax, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture AlanaF - 2010-02-20 11:17 PM I don't really see the downside. More time fishing I'm sure many of us have seen the 'comfort' aspect at work. I came back home for 3 months to spend time with my mother as she was dying from cancer. Her faith was unwavering through this period and I'm sure it was the main reason that she suffered and died with such grace and calm, believing that better things were ahead. It was amazing to watch, and made me very proud. A family friend who was a CEO of a national telecommunications company, a strong man, dropped by once and as he left said to me " she makes you feel like you're the patient" because of her lack of self pity. I fear how I will handle that time without a 'faith'. Used wisely (and too often unwisely) faith is a very powerful thing. |
| 2010-02-20 11:04 PM in reply to: #2684138 |
Elite 4235 Spring, TX | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture AlanaF - 2010-02-20 9:17 PM AndrewMT - 2010-02-20 4:31 PM Despite my honest desire to have an open discussion, I've given up talking to any religious person about their belief because it's a dead end street. I look forward to the day when I meet a person of any faith who is willing to have an open, honest and logical discussion. While there are many who get quite defensive, I find it hard to believe that you have been unable to find anyone. Yeah, very hard to believe. But keep it mind that it's not an easy topic to bring up with most people. It's absolutely off limits at work and too emotional within the family. I've approached over 15 clergy over the past two years to have discussions, one of which went to Harvard for her seminary and none of them could hold an intelligent discussion on their own religion. Very disappointing. Anyway, I enjoyed this thread more when it was a lighthearted mocking of the absurdity of some people. |
| 2010-02-21 9:01 AM in reply to: #2684119 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture ScoopJackson - 2010-02-20 9:51 PM Daremo - 2010-02-20 9:27 PM There may be a heaven, but there is no hell. Because there is no sin. Sin was created by man therefore lives in their mind. The "punishment" of "sin" is an internal strife knowing what they believe is right versus wrong. I may be mistaken, but I do not believe there is a single description of hell in the bible. What everyone perceives as hell came from Dante's poem Inferno. So I go back to ^^^^. It is a man made punishment. All I gotta say on the subject. The New Testament is replete with allusions to Hell. On several occasions, Jesus talks about "weeping and gnashing of teeth". Rev. 20:13-15 is probably the most direct reference. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Right. But those are not descriptions of the place itself. It is more a foretelling of what happens to the infidels during the apocalypse/end of time. Being thrown into a lake of fire is to kill the "sinners" as their punishment. What is really interesting is that every religion has the same sort of myths of creation, the great flood and plagues and the apocalypse/end of time. What's even MORE interesting to me is that Revelations is so far outside the usual realm of the rest of the New Testament that it really raises the eyebrows. Most religions end of time is very similar (which to me reaks of a single myth source that has been adapted to whatever religion it is applied to) with damnation to the non-believers of that faith and ascendance and peace to the true believers. So riddle me this someone (not a direct question to this poster but brought to my mind from it): Are there multiple heavens and hells for all the different beliefs? Are the true believers from the Hindu faith going to hell in the Christian world but heaven in their own? Are the people of Jewish faith all going straight to hell in the Christian world for not believing that Jesus was anything more than a profit even though they worship the same god? What about the Muslims? They also worship the one god but have Muhammed as their main profit and Jesus was just a minor one. The extremist in that certainly believe all Christians are going straight to hell and only their faith will ascend? It is those sorts of questions that I would profer that people who's faith is a question to them ask all the time. It is why I stepped away from religion when given the opportunity by my parents even though I ended up marrying Catholic and all my kids are Catholic and attend church occassionally (as well as a Catholic school currently). I am allowing my children to make their own decisions but I hope that they will question their faith at some time and come to their own conclusion one way or another. |
| 2010-02-21 9:51 AM in reply to: #2684403 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture Daremo - 2010-02-21 9:01 AM ScoopJackson - 2010-02-20 9:51 PM Daremo - 2010-02-20 9:27 PM There may be a heaven, but there is no hell. Because there is no sin. Sin was created by man therefore lives in their mind. The "punishment" of "sin" is an internal strife knowing what they believe is right versus wrong. I may be mistaken, but I do not believe there is a single description of hell in the bible. What everyone perceives as hell came from Dante's poem Inferno. So I go back to ^^^^. It is a man made punishment. All I gotta say on the subject. The New Testament is replete with allusions to Hell. On several occasions, Jesus talks about "weeping and gnashing of teeth". Rev. 20:13-15 is probably the most direct reference. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Right. But those are not descriptions of the place itself. It is more a foretelling of what happens to the infidels during the apocalypse/end of time. Being thrown into a lake of fire is to kill the "sinners" as their punishment. What is really interesting is that every religion has the same sort of myths of creation, the great flood and plagues and the apocalypse/end of time. What's even MORE interesting to me is that Revelations is so far outside the usual realm of the rest of the New Testament that it really raises the eyebrows. Most religions end of time is very similar (which to me reaks of a single myth source that has been adapted to whatever religion it is applied to) with damnation to the non-believers of that faith and ascendance and peace to the true believers. So riddle me this someone (not a direct question to this poster but brought to my mind from it): Are there multiple heavens and hells for all the different beliefs? Are the true believers from the Hindu faith going to hell in the Christian world but heaven in their own? Are the people of Jewish faith all going straight to hell in the Christian world for not believing that Jesus was anything more than a profit even though they worship the same god? What about the Muslims? They also worship the one god but have Muhammed as their main profit and Jesus was just a minor one. The extremist in that certainly believe all Christians are going straight to hell and only their faith will ascend? It is those sorts of questions that I would profer that people who's faith is a question to them ask all the time. It is why I stepped away from religion when given the opportunity by my parents even though I ended up marrying Catholic and all my kids are Catholic and attend church occassionally (as well as a Catholic school currently). I am allowing my children to make their own decisions but I hope that they will question their faith at some time and come to their own conclusion one way or another. I guess I would take a different slant on this. The fact that the traditions and beliefs of so many religions are so similar, IMO, only lends credence to their veracity. Sure, as different religions splintered off from each other, they developed slightly different takes on each as they were passed orally from one generation to the next (much like the children's game of "telephone"), but on the whole there are too many similarities to dismiss. The universality of subjects like the Great Flood, Heaven, Hell, even God, would seem to suggest they exist in some capacity or another. Rather than there being multiples of Heaven, Hell, etc., there are one of each-- the different religions simply developed parallel beliefs about them, much like different countries develop their own take on capitalism, communism or other political systems. IMO, we all started in the same place, and we're all headed to the same place. Or maybe places.  |
| 2010-02-21 12:29 PM in reply to: #2684211 |
Pro 4292 Evanston, | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture AndrewMT - 2010-02-21 12:04 AM AlanaF - 2010-02-20 9:17 PM AndrewMT - 2010-02-20 4:31 PM Despite my honest desire to have an open discussion, I've given up talking to any religious person about their belief because it's a dead end street. I look forward to the day when I meet a person of any faith who is willing to have an open, honest and logical discussion. While there are many who get quite defensive, I find it hard to believe that you have been unable to find anyone. Yeah, very hard to believe. But keep it mind that it's not an easy topic to bring up with most people. It's absolutely off limits at work and too emotional within the family. I've approached over 15 clergy over the past two years to have discussions, one of which went to Harvard for her seminary and none of them could hold an intelligent discussion on their own religion. Very disappointing. Anyway, I enjoyed this thread more when it was a lighthearted mocking of the absurdity of some people. Hmm. I have no problem talking about my faith. But I didn't go to the seminary at Harvard - just the law school. That said, a BT thread about caring for pets post-rapture may not be the best place.  On a more serious level, I am super impressed with your perseverance. I know people who claim Christianity and "know they should" go to church but give up after visiting 3 or 4 congregations they don't like, or hit the door the first time someone (i.e., a fellow sinner) sins against them. It sounds like you have a lot of integrity in this. In Houston I knew plenty of reasonable people of faith. I'm thinking possibly a certain engineer friend of mine -- a thinky, nerdy type who took years to come to a major decision about his faith. Years. So shoot me a PM if you're up to pursuing yet another contact. |
| 2010-02-21 3:18 PM in reply to: #2684593 |
Elite 4235 Spring, TX | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture CitySky - 2010-02-21 12:29 PM AndrewMT - 2010-02-21 12:04 AM AlanaF - 2010-02-20 9:17 PM AndrewMT - 2010-02-20 4:31 PM Despite my honest desire to have an open discussion, I've given up talking to any religious person about their belief because it's a dead end street. I look forward to the day when I meet a person of any faith who is willing to have an open, honest and logical discussion. While there are many who get quite defensive, I find it hard to believe that you have been unable to find anyone. Yeah, very hard to believe. But keep it mind that it's not an easy topic to bring up with most people. It's absolutely off limits at work and too emotional within the family. I've approached over 15 clergy over the past two years to have discussions, one of which went to Harvard for her seminary and none of them could hold an intelligent discussion on their own religion. Very disappointing. Anyway, I enjoyed this thread more when it was a lighthearted mocking of the absurdity of some people. Hmm. I have no problem talking about my faith. But I didn't go to the seminary at Harvard - just the law school. That said, a BT thread about caring for pets post-rapture may not be the best place. On a more serious level, I am super impressed with your perseverance. I know people who claim Christianity and "know they should" go to church but give up after visiting 3 or 4 congregations they don't like, or hit the door the first time someone (i.e., a fellow sinner) sins against them. It sounds like you have a lot of integrity in this. In Houston I knew plenty of reasonable people of faith. I'm thinking possibly a certain engineer friend of mine -- a thinky, nerdy type who took years to come to a major decision about his faith. Years. So shoot me a PM if you're up to pursuing yet another contact. Thanks for the offer. The perseverance is for two reasons; curiosity at how people can believe such fantastical things with a complete lack of evidence and an acceptance that it's an important topic, one way or another. I "de-converted" 9 years ago, and have spent that entire time doing methodical research. I've come up complete empty handed on the side of religion. But because it's so prevalent in our society, I can't let it drop as an important issue for me. This is a very unfriendly country to athiests, so I will continue to educate myself so hopefully I can influence to christians around me. I do this with an open mind and all I ask is that they do so as well. This thread got waaaay too serious and/or off topic. My offer still stands to take pets for free! |
| 2010-02-22 11:43 AM in reply to: #2684729 |
| New user 420 Charlotte, NC USA | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture AndrewMT - 2010-02-21 4:18 PM The perseverance is for two reasons; curiosity at how people can believe such fantastical things with a complete lack of evidence and an acceptance that it's an important topic, one way or another. Things do not need to be proven to be true. |
| 2010-02-22 12:21 PM in reply to: #2686028 |
Champion 15211 Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture ScoopJackson - 2010-02-22 11:43 AM AndrewMT - 2010-02-21 4:18 PM The perseverance is for two reasons; curiosity at how people can believe such fantastical things with a complete lack of evidence and an acceptance that it's an important topic, one way or another. Things do not need to be proven to be true. Define truth. |
| 2010-02-22 3:50 PM in reply to: #2686028 |
Elite 4235 Spring, TX | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture ScoopJackson - 2010-02-22 11:43 AM AndrewMT - 2010-02-21 4:18 PM The perseverance is for two reasons; curiosity at how people can believe such fantastical things with a complete lack of evidence and an acceptance that it's an important topic, one way or another. Things do not need to be proven to be true. They absolutely do! And the more crazy the assertion, the more proof is needed...and by that measure, all religions need a ton of proof. If I claim to be a superhero, would you expect me to prove that or just accept it?
Sorry, I'm applying the same burden of proof to all religions that most people only apply to other religions. edited to add: I really am trying to not get sucked into a debate here. I will refrain from further discussions in order to keep the peace and not insult the masses. Edited by AndrewMT 2010-02-22 3:52 PM |
| 2010-02-22 4:20 PM in reply to: #2686746 |
Master 2802 Minnetonka, Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture AndrewMT - 2010-02-22 3:50 PM ScoopJackson - 2010-02-22 11:43 AM AndrewMT - 2010-02-21 4:18 PM The perseverance is for two reasons; curiosity at how people can believe such fantastical things with a complete lack of evidence and an acceptance that it's an important topic, one way or another. Things do not need to be proven to be true. They absolutely do! And the more crazy the assertion, the more proof is needed...and by that measure, all religions need a ton of proof. If I claim to be a superhero, would you expect me to prove that or just accept it?
Sorry, I'm applying the same burden of proof to all religions that most people only apply to other religions. edited to add: I really am trying to not get sucked into a debate here. I will refrain from further discussions in order to keep the peace and not insult the masses. "Religion is the opiate of the masses", Karl Marx. Freudian slip??? ;-) |
| 2010-02-22 5:59 PM in reply to: #2679411 |
Elite 4547 | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture I loved all the posts in this thread...but most of all daremo's. The mention in there of Jesus being a "profit" cracked me up. (I'm sure the misspelling was unintentional) but man did that give me a chuckle. Now, on topic, I believe it was scoopjackson who let me know there is pre-trib, trib, and post-trib and it's 0, 3 1/2, and 7 years? I didn't want to look stupid by asking, is that trib short for tribulation? Anywhoo, you'll have to dumb it down more for me. You mean to tell me Jesus brings believers up to heaven before the end of the world? Does He destroy the world or do the nonbelievers end up destroying it themselves? Are we watching the pets for up to 7 years before the earth explodes or what? I'm confused. |
| 2010-02-22 8:22 PM in reply to: #2684446 |
Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture scoobysdad - 2010-02-21 10:51 AM Daremo - 2010-02-21 9:01 AM I guess I would take a different slant on this. The fact that the traditions and beliefs of so many religions are so similar, IMO, only lends credence to their veracity. Sure, as different religions splintered off from each other, they developed slightly different takes on each as they were passed orally from one generation to the next (much like the children's game of "telephone"), but on the whole there are too many similarities to dismiss. The universality of subjects like the Great Flood, Heaven, Hell, even God, would seem to suggest they exist in some capacity or another. Rather than there being multiples of Heaven, Hell, etc., there are one of each-- the different religions simply developed parallel beliefs about them, much like different countries develop their own take on capitalism, communism or other political systems. IMO, we all started in the same place, and we're all headed to the same place. Or maybe places. ScoopJackson - 2010-02-20 9:51 PM Daremo - 2010-02-20 9:27 PM There may be a heaven, but there is no hell. Because there is no sin. Sin was created by man therefore lives in their mind. The "punishment" of "sin" is an internal strife knowing what they believe is right versus wrong. I may be mistaken, but I do not believe there is a single description of hell in the bible. What everyone perceives as hell came from Dante's poem Inferno. So I go back to ^^^^. It is a man made punishment. All I gotta say on the subject. The New Testament is replete with allusions to Hell. On several occasions, Jesus talks about "weeping and gnashing of teeth". Rev. 20:13-15 is probably the most direct reference. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Right. But those are not descriptions of the place itself. It is more a foretelling of what happens to the infidels during the apocalypse/end of time. Being thrown into a lake of fire is to kill the "sinners" as their punishment. What is really interesting is that every religion has the same sort of myths of creation, the great flood and plagues and the apocalypse/end of time. What's even MORE interesting to me is that Revelations is so far outside the usual realm of the rest of the New Testament that it really raises the eyebrows. Most religions end of time is very similar (which to me reaks of a single myth source that has been adapted to whatever religion it is applied to) with damnation to the non-believers of that faith and ascendance and peace to the true believers. So riddle me this someone (not a direct question to this poster but brought to my mind from it): Are there multiple heavens and hells for all the different beliefs? Are the true believers from the Hindu faith going to hell in the Christian world but heaven in their own? Are the people of Jewish faith all going straight to hell in the Christian world for not believing that Jesus was anything more than a profit even though they worship the same god? What about the Muslims? They also worship the one god but have Muhammed as their main profit and Jesus was just a minor one. The extremist in that certainly believe all Christians are going straight to hell and only their faith will ascend? It is those sorts of questions that I would profer that people who's faith is a question to them ask all the time. It is why I stepped away from religion when given the opportunity by my parents even though I ended up marrying Catholic and all my kids are Catholic and attend church occassionally (as well as a Catholic school currently). I am allowing my children to make their own decisions but I hope that they will question their faith at some time and come to their own conclusion one way or another. Except that I don't think it IS true that most religions share creation myths or end of cycle stories. The Mayans, the Romans, the Vikings, the native americans, the Hindu mythologies are all different than the versions that are centered around books and stories from the "cradle of civilization" of Babylon - which is what led to the versions of creation etc. that the Hebrew tribes shared, from which the christian traditions descended. And universality of a myth would not prove it is true- all it proves is that human nature is more or less universal across cultures. In the same way that many schizophrenics share the delusion that they are Jesus or God. Doesn't make it so, just shows that when a brain breaks down, it happens in common and sadly predictable ways. Even the ideas of end times being bandied about here are mostly a christian model. In Judaism, hell is being separated from God. There is no "rapture", and no second coming, since the Messiah has not arrived yet, and it is his arrival that brings about peace on earth. Given the history of persecution, this is obviously a strong wish. Not to mention that many of the more fantastic ideas about Jesus had roots in earlier jewish prophets. Bottom line for me is that people will interperate things according to how they want to see them. |
| 2010-02-22 9:56 PM in reply to: #2679411 |
Extreme Veteran 756 Mexico! | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture ''Let your religion be less of a theory and more of a love affair'' just sayin |
| 2010-02-22 10:02 PM in reply to: #2687388 |
Elite 4235 Spring, TX | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture Prince of Denmar - 2010-02-22 9:56 PM ''Let your religion be less of a theory and more of a love affair'' just sayin
Prince of Denmar, I respect that passion. I really do. But isn't the topic of your salvation too important of an issue to be left to emotion? Humans are much too fickle to trust our feelings, especially on a topic that is arguably the most important possible topic to any of us. As important as it is, I would hope that there would be something more to back it up than the fact that it feels good. Referencing the "Guilty Pleasures" thread...this topic is my guilty pleasure, and I can't seem to help myself! Andrew |
| 2010-02-23 12:32 AM in reply to: #2683359 |
Expert 1244 New York | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture pga_mike - 2010-02-20 11:27 AM ChineseDemocracy - 2010-02-20 9:44 AM JBrashear - 2010-02-19 1:17 PM meherczeg - 2010-02-19 10:48 AM If you reach that last moment and find out that Jesus is nowhere to be found, how will you feel then? That's the question I'm asking; not how you feel now, but how you would feel on your deathbed if you found out your beliefs were wrong?JBrashear - 2010-02-18 11:43 PM RacerRik - 2010-02-18 10:31 PM Anyone stop to consider that if you are here to witness the rapture you will have more important things to think about than caring for pets. So you don't believe. That's fine with me. You are free to have that belief or non-belief to state it more accurately. But say it happens and you are left behind. Would you still consider it all BS and silly? Really?! Say you die & there's nothing there. In your last moment, are you going to regret living your life honoring a myth or spending all that time at church instead of with friends & family enjoying life? This goes both ways.Time spent at church is time spent with friends and family. And I enjoy my life pretty well believing that Jesus is coming back. I don't really feel like I'm missing out on anything or unhappy because of what I believe. JBrashear, nobody ever answers your questions man. That's not cool. I guess that's a very tough hypothetical for many folks out there. It would be refreshing to hear those of strong conviction be honest and say, "That sure would suck!" Actually, the bold section does answer the question pretty well. And I'm an agnostic. IE - I beleive in God, but not in religion. I just think that He spends more time in the woods than at church. Brief detour, and yeah, I'm joining the conversation a little late, but I thought being agnostic means you believe the existence of a deity of any sort is unknowable. Anyway. A friend of mine used to used Pascal's wager as argument that I should believe in God (that is, all things being equal, you have more to gain from believing in God, even if it turns out He/She/It doesn't exist, than vice versa). This always annoyed me, and personally, I sort of enjoy being a doubter anyway. It just makes more sense to me. And also, it's more interesting than believing something just 'cuz someone told you it was true. It shouldn't be my job to prove it's NOT true, it should be your job to prove that it IS. |
| 2010-02-23 1:53 AM in reply to: #2687490 |
Extreme Veteran 1996 Halifax, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture swishyskirt - 2010-02-23 2:32 AM pga_mike - 2010-02-20 11:27 AM Brief detour, and yeah, I'm joining the conversation a little late, but I thought being agnostic means you believe the existence of a deity of any sort is unknowable. And I'm an agnostic. IE - I beleive in God, but not in religion. I just think that He spends more time in the woods than at church. Yeah, it sounds like you're a theist. Her definition of Agnosticism is correct. An Atheist doesn't believe in any gods but would if given evidence of same. And clearly, any God who spends a lot of time in the woods is not omnipotent and needs to spend more time at the driving range. |
| 2010-02-23 7:13 AM in reply to: #2686746 |
Champion 14571 the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture AndrewMT - 2010-02-22 4:50 PM ScoopJackson - 2010-02-22 11:43 AM AndrewMT - 2010-02-21 4:18 PM The perseverance is for two reasons; curiosity at how people can believe such fantastical things with a complete lack of evidence and an acceptance that it's an important topic, one way or another. Things do not need to be proven to be true. They absolutely do! And the more crazy the assertion, the more proof is needed...and by that measure, all religions need a ton of proof. If I claim to be a superhero, would you expect me to prove that or just accept it?
Sorry, I'm applying the same burden of proof to all religions that most people only apply to other religions. edited to add: I really am trying to not get sucked into a debate here. I will refrain from further discussions in order to keep the peace and not insult the masses. Andrew - I know you don't want to get sucked into a debate, but I will say that I have spent some time learning about other religions (admittedly not studying them in depth as I do my own - Christianity) and most major religions require that theirs is the one true religion, so then I start drilling down and looking for holes within that framework. Doing a lot of Old Testament study right now and REALLY struggling with Judaism vs Christianity...when you become mature in your faith (generic YOU here) you almost HAVE to challenge it to grow stronger in it. I may not have the perfect method or all the answers, but I have challenged myself over the last 15 years and consistently come back to Christianity as the answer. |
| 2010-02-23 7:16 AM in reply to: #2687610 |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture meherczeg - 2010-02-23 6:13 AM AndrewMT - 2010-02-22 4:50 PM ScoopJackson - 2010-02-22 11:43 AM AndrewMT - 2010-02-21 4:18 PM The perseverance is for two reasons; curiosity at how people can believe such fantastical things with a complete lack of evidence and an acceptance that it's an important topic, one way or another. Things do not need to be proven to be true. They absolutely do! And the more crazy the assertion, the more proof is needed...and by that measure, all religions need a ton of proof. If I claim to be a superhero, would you expect me to prove that or just accept it?
Sorry, I'm applying the same burden of proof to all religions that most people only apply to other religions. edited to add: I really am trying to not get sucked into a debate here. I will refrain from further discussions in order to keep the peace and not insult the masses. Andrew - I know you don't want to get sucked into a debate, but I will say that I have spent some time learning about other religions (admittedly not studying them in depth as I do my own - Christianity) and most major religions require that theirs is the one true religion, so then I start drilling down and looking for holes within that framework. Doing a lot of Old Testament study right now and REALLY struggling with Judaism vs Christianity...when you become mature in your faith (generic YOU here) you almost HAVE to challenge it to grow stronger in it. I may not have the perfect method or all the answers, but I have challenged myself over the last 15 years and consistently come back to Christianity as the answer. Out of curiosity can you tell us why you keep coming back to Christianity as the answer? |
| 2010-02-23 7:17 AM in reply to: #2687614 |
Champion 14571 the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture JoshR - 2010-02-23 8:16 AM meherczeg - 2010-02-23 6:13 AM Andrew - I know you don't want to get sucked into a debate, but I will say that I have spent some time learning about other religions (admittedly not studying them in depth as I do my own - Christianity) and most major religions require that theirs is the one true religion, so then I start drilling down and looking for holes within that framework. Doing a lot of Old Testament study right now and REALLY struggling with Judaism vs Christianity...when you become mature in your faith (generic YOU here) you almost HAVE to challenge it to grow stronger in it. I may not have the perfect method or all the answers, but I have challenged myself over the last 15 years and consistently come back to Christianity as the answer. Out of curiosity can you tell us why you keep coming back to Christianity as the answer? I really don't have time to go into that here!! Like I said, 15 years of asking Why Jesus? Leads to a LONG LONG discussion. |
| 2010-02-23 10:18 AM in reply to: #2687615 |
Elite 4235 Spring, TX | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture meherczeg - 2010-02-23 7:17 AM JoshR - 2010-02-23 8:16 AM meherczeg - 2010-02-23 6:13 AM Andrew - I know you don't want to get sucked into a debate, but I will say that I have spent some time learning about other religions (admittedly not studying them in depth as I do my own - Christianity) and most major religions require that theirs is the one true religion, so then I start drilling down and looking for holes within that framework. Doing a lot of Old Testament study right now and REALLY struggling with Judaism vs Christianity...when you become mature in your faith (generic YOU here) you almost HAVE to challenge it to grow stronger in it. I may not have the perfect method or all the answers, but I have challenged myself over the last 15 years and consistently come back to Christianity as the answer. Out of curiosity can you tell us why you keep coming back to Christianity as the answer? I really don't have time to go into that here!! Like I said, 15 years of asking Why Jesus? Leads to a LONG LONG discussion. A very long discussion indeed! The spirit of Josh's question remains though; why do you come back to chritianity? Is it because of the body of evidence, or because of your pre-existing familiarity and comfort level with the teachings? If you're like me, you were brainwashed from the time you were born to believe in a specific faith, and examining other faiths without bias can be difficult. (Not looking for an answer here, this is just a thought) I've spent almost 10 years of very intense study of religion, and have found a complete void of any evidence to make me believe that religion is anything more than a man made institution to help us deal with the fact that life is tough and that we don't have all the answers. Not a shred of evidence that shows that the christian assertions is even remotely plausible. And that's with me starting out as a christian in an effort to reaffirm my faith! I agree that at some point, any person of true faith must challenge their beliefs. I challenged mine and found them severely lacking. |
| 2010-02-23 1:30 PM in reply to: #2687490 |
Extreme Veteran 310 | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture swishyskirt - 2010-02-23 12:32 AM it's more interesting than believing something just 'cuz someone told you it was true. There is always an assumption that people who believe in God do so because they were told to. I believe in God because of his evidence in my own life. Most of it is way too personal to post in an internet forum, but here a few reasons why: Many many times I have come across problems in life that were bigger than me. I was stuck between a rock and hard place with nowhere to go and I couldn't see a way forward. After praying for help, a way would open. You call that coincidence, I call it evidence. The ONE night my family wasn't home, our home burned to ground so quickly that there's NO WAY we could have gotten all of our kids out alive. You call it a lucky break, I call it divine interference. The very complexity of human beings, the beauty of nature, all these things denote there is a God. If you strictly follow science then you know that all things left alone tend to chaos, not to order. Look at our planet. It is gorgeous and complex. I'm not trying to convince anyone, it's a personal journey, but just be careful not judge people who believe in God as mindless sheep. Most people have their own evidence of God in their own lives. |
| 2010-02-23 3:52 PM in reply to: #2688840 |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture AlanaF - 2010-02-23 12:30 PM swishyskirt - 2010-02-23 12:32 AM it's more interesting than believing something just 'cuz someone told you it was true. There is always an assumption that people who believe in God do so because they were told to. I believe in God because of his evidence in my own life. Most of it is way too personal to post in an internet forum, but here a few reasons why: Many many times I have come across problems in life that were bigger than me. I was stuck between a rock and hard place with nowhere to go and I couldn't see a way forward. After praying for help, a way would open. You call that coincidence, I call it evidence. The ONE night my family wasn't home, our home burned to ground so quickly that there's NO WAY we could have gotten all of our kids out alive. You call it a lucky break, I call it divine interference. The very complexity of human beings, the beauty of nature, all these things denote there is a God. If you strictly follow science then you know that all things left alone tend to chaos, not to order. Look at our planet. It is gorgeous and complex. I'm not trying to convince anyone, it's a personal journey, but just be careful not judge people who believe in God as mindless sheep. Most people have their own evidence of God in their own lives. If say God had allowed someone in your family to not have made it out of the house, would that imply that God let them die? Personally I have lost 2 uncles to horrible deaths. 1 was in a house fire like you mentioned when he was less than a year old. The other was brutally stabbed to death and then buried alive in his backyard at the young age of 21. Does this mean God did not want to intervene on their behalf? |
| 2010-02-23 7:08 PM in reply to: #2689274 |
Extreme Veteran 310 | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture JoshR - 2010-02-23 3:52 PM AlanaF - 2010-02-23 12:30 PM swishyskirt - 2010-02-23 12:32 AM it's more interesting than believing something just 'cuz someone told you it was true. There is always an assumption that people who believe in God do so because they were told to. I believe in God because of his evidence in my own life. Most of it is way too personal to post in an internet forum, but here a few reasons why: Many many times I have come across problems in life that were bigger than me. I was stuck between a rock and hard place with nowhere to go and I couldn't see a way forward. After praying for help, a way would open. You call that coincidence, I call it evidence. The ONE night my family wasn't home, our home burned to ground so quickly that there's NO WAY we could have gotten all of our kids out alive. You call it a lucky break, I call it divine interference. The very complexity of human beings, the beauty of nature, all these things denote there is a God. If you strictly follow science then you know that all things left alone tend to chaos, not to order. Look at our planet. It is gorgeous and complex. I'm not trying to convince anyone, it's a personal journey, but just be careful not judge people who believe in God as mindless sheep. Most people have their own evidence of God in their own lives. If say God had allowed someone in your family to not have made it out of the house, would that imply that God let them die? Personally I have lost 2 uncles to horrible deaths. 1 was in a house fire like you mentioned when he was less than a year old. The other was brutally stabbed to death and then buried alive in his backyard at the young age of 21. Does this mean God did not want to intervene on their behalf? Yikes, sorry about your uncles. How terrible for your family. I wish I was "meeting" a fellow Idahoan in the middle of a cheerier subject! I'm not going to be so stupid as to think I have all the answers. My sister has one daughter that has gotten into two really really bad car accidents and walked away from them when she should have been seriously injured if not dead. She counted her blessings. Her three year old son got the flu bug and died suddenly. Why was one child spared when she logically should have died and the other died over something silly like the flu bug? I'm not trying to say that a belief in God makes life roses. It doesn't. He doesn't intervene to make everything lovely. But he will strengthen and sustain us through the terrible things that life throws our way. Look, I completely respect everyone's beliefs, atheist, buddhist, whatever. I really do. I merely chimed in with mine. |
| 2010-02-23 7:27 PM in reply to: #2679411 |
Expert 1146 Johns Creek, Georgia | Subject: RE: Caring for Pets Left Behind by the Rapture God exist. He has saved my life twice, that I know of. Once by having his son die on the cross, Two, by telling me not to get on a plane one morning, I didn't, it crashed, all died, I lived. Oh yea, he exists and is right there with you while some of you deny him, now, really. And my dogs will be fine, they like meat, any kind. God exists. If you are unsure, call me, I'll walk you throgh it, it's simple. |
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